If Drive Cloner and RollBack Rx work-----

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by bgoodman4, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Lets assume that Rx and the new Drive Cloner (eventually) work perfectly.

    Would those who used to use Rx and gave up on it go back to Rx?
     
  2. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Since I've been away from RBrx for a while, I would retest under newer system conditions (x64/x86, GPT, UEFI, W8.x). If all went well (and the W8.x stuff isn't going well at the moment) AND the new Drive Cloner was predictable in its imaging operations as far as HOT snapshots are concerned, I would consider using the complimentary application pair once again.

    And this is exactly the same thing I would say about AX Time Machine if it reached the same state. I would love (2) reliable solutions to support the need for excessive snapshotting (which I do) and reliable system imaging.
     
  3. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Hi bg,

    Although I never stopped using RB (I'm also one of the DC6 beta-testers), I very much doubt that the majority of those who did would resume using it. I say that because I believe HDS themselves are the main reason for discontent, in that they have failed in their mission of delivering timely support to its personal-use customers.

    pv
     
  4. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Thats my feeling. I just do not want anything to do with HDS.
     
  5. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    My point exactly and its a crying shame because imho RB rules when it comes to snapshot software and has matured into a polished and relatively reliable product when used properly. That said, I wouldn't use it, or any other snapshot software, without having image-backups in the event of a disaster.

    pv
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2015
  6. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    I can't speak for those who have abandoned Rollback as I'm still using it through several versions, currently Rollback XP (on a Windows XP system that's still serving me well). But I am following the development of Drive Cloner 6.0 as it seems that this may be the year when it finally fulfills its promise. I kind of think that when that time comes a lot of ex-Rollback users will give it a 2nd look (especially if Drive Cloner is integrated into Rollback like in the v8 days) because Drive Cloner would then be an easy to use safety net.
     
  7. Masterblaster

    Masterblaster Registered Member

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    I am also a long time user who will never return. RRX worked like magic almost all of the time. I always held my breath when uninstalling and re-installing it for updates. A few times I lost everything. HDS's solution was to have me test patches they created for me. Most of the time they didn't fix the problem. I just can't trust them anymore. There is no excuse for a product that is designed to protect your computer data to destroying it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015
  8. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    I don't mean to preach, but no software should be counted on to work perfectly all of time, especially snapshot software. That's why it's imperative to use tried and proven disk-imaging backup on a regular basis. But don't get me wrong, HDS' support could be a lot better.

    pv
     
  9. Masterblaster

    Masterblaster Registered Member

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    You should be able to trust a product that is designed to protect data to not destroy your HDD. I am not talking about a minor glitch here and there. I am talking about RRX corrupting my MBR to the point my comp will no longer boot. No excuse for that, period. Of what I have read, using other disk imaging software with RRX is not advised. Not sure they would be of much help anyway with a borked MBR.
    I have pointed out to HDS several times their website leads users to believe that RRX 10.2, Drive Cloner 5.0 and Windows 8.1 all work together which is not true.
    A year or so ago HDS had a forum full of complaints and very sad stories of users who lost everything due to RRX making their computers un-bootable. Amazingly, their old forums became corrupted and un-repairable and they blew it away to start fresh. Amazing.
     
  10. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    First I doubt that there's any snapshot software that you can trust without using image backup as a 'just in case' measure. Secondly, I have never heard that using other disk imaging software with RB is not advised. To the contrary, I've been doing it from day one (2006)! And if done properly, it would allow recovery of 'borked MBR'.

    Yeah, I participated in the old forum, which had a lot of valuable threads (in addition to complaints). I was really sorry to see it go, for whatever reason.

    pv
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2015
  11. Gaddster

    Gaddster Registered Member

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    Please enlighten us as Horizon themselves advertises Rollback Rx in the most misleading way possible and many knowledgeable members on this forum have used Rollback "properly" to have their systems basically trashed.

    Why doesn't Horizon advertise Rollback "properly"?
     
  12. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Please be advised that I do not work for HDS. I do not deny that HDS has misrepresented RB as being capable of rescuing your system from any ('zero day') disaster, and, sadly, they still do that. I do not deny that some members on this forum have had their RB system trashed but I can't account for those situations nor do I know if they used their system 'properly'. As I continue to say, RB should not be used without a tried and proven image backup program (nor should any other snapshot program)!

    Gaddster, do you believe that your system was trashed by RB? If so, perhaps you can enlighten us as to the details.

    pv
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2015
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    HI pvsurfer

    you've hit the nail on the head of the problem, when you say any snapshot program should be used with a tried an true imaging program. With Raxco's IR, I can do exactly that. WIth AX64 I can do exactly that. But with RBX you can't do that. That is the problem.
     
  14. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Sure you can Pete, I've been doing it for years! Just about any image backup program can do that (even some free ones).
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2015
  15. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Not a chance.
    RBRX from 2007 that I started using and testing it thoroughly, have passed... 7 YEARS. And still horror stories keep coming up.
    Back then it was the chkdsk issue
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/rollback-rx-8-0-chkdsk.184940/
    which they denied it until both peter2150 and me proved them that RBRX was causing/triggering it, after a sudden power-loss. Even so they kept denying it and even made a knowledge-base article, that is urban legend.:isay:
    With 9.x they disabled the trim on the ssds with a very sneaky way, and kept on denying it for 1-2 years. (by the way 10.x trims the disk or not?)
    With 10.x and windows 8.1 a simple windows update was enough to take down the RBRX subsystem.
    Instead of fixing the damn thing, they are more concerned with the marketing and with creating new forums everytime they release a new version (easy way to hide/eliminate old problems).
    When contacting support (at least in the past) you could get responses from persons identified themselves as "developers", that had no idea about RBRX inner functions....

    ps. not all snapshot apps cause data loss. They can put windows in an unstable state so that you can not start it, but in all of them you can recover your data from a live OS. The only exception is RBRX...

    Panagiotis
     
  16. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    Isn't RBRX purchased technology? I don't believe HDS developed it themselves. That means a non-technical web business is marketing and *cough* supporting *cough* the tech behind Rollback RX.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2015
  17. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    So you are saying, I can have Rbx on my system, have say 5 snapshots, and image my disk with Macrium and be good to go. (Without doing a every sector image, mind you)

    Pete
     
  18. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    I have said this before, and I'm saying it again. RBRX can be a usable utility provided that you understand the following:

    1- You make cold, offline, sector-by-sector backups. Covering the entire disk.
    2- Completely understand that RollBack RX is not a backup solution. It is a convenience tool.
    3- RBRX can and does fail at anytime.
    4- RBRX is not always compatible with official Microsoft updates.
    5- There will be minimal tech support. Solutions may be custom and tedious.

    Understand those stipulations and you'll be ok.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2015
  19. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    No. You need to do complete sector-by-sector image. There are no exceptions.
     
  20. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Well that lets me out. My c: drive has 91gb, and my images are about 60gb in size. But the total c: drive is a 1tb. So a sector by sector image would be 1tb. Can't do it. But that says that no you can't do it like you can with other software.
     
  21. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    No you don't...

    The situation with RBRX 9.x is this:
    You do your normal backups from within Windows using any of the usual image based backuppers, and you can do full, differential or incremental backups. The backupper will save your current state of the HDD, all previous RBRX snapshots will not be saved. When you restore from such a backup, the Rollback subconsole will be gone which renders the Windows part of RBRX non-functional. You have to uninstall and reinstall RBRX. But otherwise the restored HDD will be in the same state as it was when you took your last image backup.

    The situation with the current RBRX version 10.2 is different in one aspect:
    After restoring the image backup Windows will not boot. The reason is that the Windows based backupper was provided with a faulty MBR by the Rollback driver. Easy workaround: Save a copy of your MBR on an external drive BEFORE Rollback is installed (Use BootICE or similar tools). After restoring from the image backup just restore the saved MBR also. Boot into Windows and reinstall RBRX, done...

    The only reason why you would really need to do cold sector by sector backups is if you insist that your image backup includes all of the RBRX snapshots.

    These procedures have been discussed a few times before, and I am getting a little tired to repeat this over and over again. And before folks like Keatah publish their doubts, please try it yourself...

    Cheers
    manolito
     
  22. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Thanks manolito. It answers questions, but still not for me. I have learned thru experience, that when I really need a restore, I am already under stress, and the last thing I would want to deal with is what you describe. No until I can do a regular image and restore, and truly restore everything, I have to pass. To much added stress.
     
  23. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    Advice given by folks like monolito requires a bit more technical knowledge and additional work, aside from the basic imaging operation. Which sort of defeats the purpose of simple stress-free backup/recover operations.

    And who's to say there won't be changes to RBRX, or its interaction with Windows, that would nullify that method.

    If you require a reliable computer, it's best to simplify the file system, its components, and your operational procedures. Backups included.

    Monolito, most non-technical people can be taught to do full-disk backup procedures. Throwing in additional MBR related steps and reinstalling RBRX and reconfiguring its options & preferences is too much. Even for me that's too much un-necessary messing around. Doable? Probably. Fun and high-confidence level, not so much.
     
  24. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    That's exactly what happened when they went from v9.1 to v10.x... all of a sudden those HOT backups that used to restore just fine (albeit with a neutered RBrx) no longer worked. I worked with some clients that had exactly that problem... and those poor devils were using HDS' own backup tool, Drive Cloner. It didn't take me long to figure out what had happened, but a regular user... never happen. Most don't even know what a MBR is much less how to save one BEFORE the tragedy.

    No, working with RBrx and imaging software is not for the faint of heart when it comes to a "typical" computer user.
     
  25. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    My nicks are adding up...

    manolito
    mabolito
    manalito

    and Keatah's new proposal
    monolito

    I'll add another one myself. What about
    mamalito ?

    I probably should start a poll... :p

    Cheers
    manolito
     
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