I want a complete recovery/backup solution

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by besafe, May 9, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    This has nothing to do with opinions, dogma, feelings. This is about how a software is supposed to work and nothing else.
    Would you like it if your textprocessor is missing after restore ?
     
  2. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2004
    Posts:
    1,537
    Location:
    USA
    Erik, any software product is supposed to work accordiing to its published specifications and within its intended environment. Like you, I would presume that any software product claiming to be a disk-imaging product should have the capabilty (or option) to image all sectors on any given hard drive...

    ...I have said (in various posts) that I have sucessfully performed a Raw (i.e., all sectors) image of my C-drive including all Rollback snapshots using ATI, all of which were captured accurately and each of which were restorable. However, I choose not to use that option. That said, what exactly are your specific issues with ATI and Rollback Rx? o_O
     
  3. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    It's not about ATI and RBRx, it's about Image Backup softwares, which don't backup/restore RBRx completely.
    I don't blame RBRx, I blame the Image Backup softwares for not doing their job and ATI is one of them and probably a few others.
    RBRx is just a software like any other software on your harddisk.
    Of course when most Image Backup softwares have a problem with RBRx, than RBRx is less attractive to be used because of the backup/restore problem.

    If ATI wouldn't backup MS Office then everybody would complain, but RBRx seems not to be a problem. Why making an exception, because a few people don't care, while other people need a complete restore of RBRx-snapshots.
    Is that logical to you ?
     
  4. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2004
    Posts:
    1,537
    Location:
    USA
    Erik, the only thing I find illogical here is that you are overlooking (or ignoring) my comments to the effect that ATI-W can do the job you would have it do (i.e., capture and restore all RB snapshots). I simply don't want to exercise that ATI backup option. Must Jo Ann and I use ATI in the manner you would have RB users use it or is it ok for us to use ATI the way we prefer to use it? ~pv
     
  5. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    If you are talking about ATI and RAW, that is not a solution.
    I don't see any purpose of this discussion anymore, because the problem won't be fixed and the solution is somewhere else, not at Wilders.
     
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    Hi PV

    For usage it makes absolute sense, and that is all that counts.


    Cheers,

    Pete
     
  7. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590

    In many substantial ways. First like the home version you can image either with Windows running for from the recovery environment. The difference is the IT edition doesn't need to be installed. You just pop the CD in and fire it up, and do a Windows running install. This is one cool feature.

    Second. It is not licensed to the machine, as the Desktop version is and like most software. It is licensed to the technician. He can use it on any machine he works on. Just has to be him. Also for this reason there is no scheduling feature.

    Third because of number 2 is the cost. Desktop is $70 and if you don't want to upgrade it's yours for life. The IT edition costs $3500 per year. That sort of locks it out of home usage.

    Pete
     
  8. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Posts:
    3,227
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Hey Pete
    Could you elaborate a bit on this
    That sounds interesting
    Yes :'(
     
  9. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    Someone must have read my mind. :D As we speak i'm here online and posting with a test Maxtor drive complete with Rollback Rx firmly in place. I have to see what it can offer for myself in addition to an already proven provider in FD-ISR. The only security i have on is Kerio 2.15 & EQSecure for examination purposes. I don't know squat about Rollback Rx except from posts & discussions i read about it, but it seems to have an equally loyal user base.
    I would never discount one rollback program over another unless it simply could not perform as expected without issues. I believe the exchanges that are bearing some hard looks focus on "Features" because from what i read BOTH programs are safe and for the most part completely stable.
     
  10. KikiBibi

    KikiBibi Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006
    Posts:
    173
  11. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    Shadow Protect Desktop Edition V2 (current version) has some image tools that allow you to:

    1) Split an image. Say you imaged to one file that is 13gig and now you want to burn to DVD. You can split the image into smaller segments.

    2) Merge/combine smaller image files into a larger one.

    3. Collapse the base an incrementals into one image. Say for example you take a base and 10 incrementals. You can select the base and last incremental and then end up with just one image file that represents your system as of the last (or any intermediate incremental)

    4. Mount an image as a directory as opposed to a drive. Copy a new file into that directory. Upon dismounting, you can have it save the added files as an incremental, and additionally if desired do step three to make a new image with the added files.

    The disadvantage can be time. As an experiment yesterday I ran a job that took incrementals every 15 minutes. With these incrementals I could have restored my system to that point, or retrieved a file in it's state at any of those times. Useful. BUT, I then combined them into one image, verified the image and test restored. Total time to do that was about 30 minutes. I could have imaged, verified and restored the system in half that time. So it's a feature that needs to be used wisely.

    Pete
     
  12. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Posts:
    3,227
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Cooler and cooler :)
    Thankyou.
    Goes into the db for reference. ;)
     
  13. lucas1985

    lucas1985 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    Posts:
    4,047
    Location:
    France, May 1968
    I'd be interested in a Shadow Protect version able to backup up to 10 machines (approximately) which doesn't cost $3500 per year. It would be a version targeted to SOHO users.
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    From what grnxmn has stated that isn't going to happen. You might look at there special server package. I don't remember the details but you can find it on the website. It packages the server edition plus x number of desktop editions for a certain price.
     
  15. lucas1985

    lucas1985 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    Posts:
    4,047
    Location:
    France, May 1968
    It might not make sense now (from a business perspective), but in a near future, with growing home LANs and the masification of NAS/DAS/HTPC devices, it might make sense then.
    I'll look for that "special server package" though.
    EDIT:
    OMG, my heart skipped a beat :D
    ShadowProtect Small Business Bundle
    Code:
    PRICE: $995.00
    :(
    Also, it doesn't backup Linux/Unix partitions.
    For now, I'll stick to the freebies: DriveImage XML and the Paragon offer.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2007
  16. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    For the life of me i never understand why vendors like this limit themselves AND their profitabilities to just Corporate interests. That throws up a big red flag for the rest of us almost on the order of how $M sets their marketing strategy.

    If StorageCraft limits themselves along those same lines and leaves all us other end-users at such a distance from something potential useful for us and additionally profitable for them then another vendor will be more than ready to fill that vacumm and establish their place in opposition to the competition.
     
  17. lucas1985

    lucas1985 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    Posts:
    4,047
    Location:
    France, May 1968
    Well, I'm not criticizing StorageCraft's business decisions, I really understand the reasons behind their position. We, hardware/software enthusiasts, are a small minority of the PC market, although we sometimes influence corporate/business decisions.
     
  18. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    I almost beg to differ with that opinion lucas1985 for the very reason that all the so-called enthusiasts makeup the entire globe and from an overview respective far outnumber even corporations and businesses. I do however understand it's all about driving up the bottom line and that's why business interests are favored most.

    I'm not criticizing their business practice in that respect ($), but i am for sake of making it clear for everyone to see the complete picture here, pointing out that they have far more to gain by bringing EVERYONE into the loop instead of by that selective choice only, and thus discourage interest away from them completely, since "WE" the enthusiasts, make up the vast majority if we look at it from a global perspective.

    No matter though, as already mentioned, there will always be a more accommadating competitor who will be only more than happy to fill that gap left abandoned. Happens all the time as evident with many of the vendors we find discussed right here in the forums.
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    The key is in what you say in the first paragraph. To be viable a company HAS to be profitable. Just do the math. I copy of IT edition $3500 per year, one person requiring support. 10 users buy desktop edition that $700 revenue over life of product and 10 people that require on going support.

    Look at Acronis. A lot of complaints about support. I'd bet what they've done is look at how much support they can afford to provide based on the sales of ATI. It may not be adequate, but thats all they can afford to do.

    I know in my own business, I occasionally when pressed will make someone a deal on my services. The only valid reason is to keep people working and busy, but that isn't a real problem. The main reason is sometimes I just hate to say no. So I end up giving up almost all of my profit(read my income) for these people, and they invariably ending up being the people that are the most needy. I am now at the point that I've stopped doing this. Just isn't worth it.

    I do understand where Storagecraft and some of the other companies are coming from.

    Pete
     
  20. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    True enough.....maybe.

    In my past life I worked in the oil industry. Always fascinated me how an Exxon would sell off a totally unprofitable oil field to some little independent who would continue to work it for years. Reason. Big companies have big overhead, and that overhead has to be paid for, so when an oil field gets played out the cost of maintaining it with all the overhead makes it a loser, and they sell it. On the other hand the small independent doesn't have all that overhead, so for him it is still profitable. In both these cases the market and price for the product is fairly constant, it's the cost size that drives.

    Now say I develop a competing product to storage craft, and want to go to market. I need a business model. I have to look at what I can charge in both the enterprise market and home market. The home market has a real catch 22. To get anykind of volume I have to keep price low, and thats the rub, I get the volume, and along with it the support costs. As I do the math, I am also going to head to the enterprise market. The gap you talk about might be tough to reasonably fill.

    There's more that could be said, but I think the point is made.

    Pete
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.