I used today acronis true image 9

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by mantra, Dec 11, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Posts:
    5,131
    Hi
    i did an image and restored!
    i used the 9 version , backup & restored with the boot cd
    but i have a question
    after the restore i found the files are moved in another place of my hardisk!
    i run the microsoft defrag and i found this


    the green files were in the middle of my hardisk , now they are in the first place of my hardisk and they are not movible
    please help me , i'm a novice
     

    Attached Files:

  2. noonie

    noonie Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Posts:
    299
    It really doesn't matter very much where the green files are on modern systems. Various views on head seek travel/times, pagesize vs. ram size, better defraggers etc. That debate will go on for eternity, so I won't go into it.

    Here is what you can do to make you files more orderly.
    1-Empty trash can
    2-Disable system hibrination
    3-Set page file to 0
    4-Reboot
    5-Defrag and reboot, can do this a couple of times
    6-Reset page file to windows auto or personal size
    7-Defrag again to check graph, your green area should be off by itself.
    I wouldn't use system hibrination unless you have a dire need. It can be problematic.

    Probably worth doing this to prep for an image backup.
     
  3. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Posts:
    5,131
    but the green files where should be?

    i did several images every images with the same problem!

    but is there sombody of acronis team here?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2005
  4. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    Well, you can wait on Acronis Support if you must but I'll also tell you it matters very little WHERE the "green files" are. What matters most is that the "green files" are complete and uncorrupted.

    The "green files", as you call them, are "unmovable files" -- which SIMPLY means Windows defragmenter won't move them -- it DOESN'T mean "death to your computer !" if they are moved -- at least not in the special manner in which TI moved them -- which wasn't actually "moving" them but simply laying them down in a location different from where they were backed up from. They are files like your swap file, your hibernation file - if active, your Master File Table (MFT), extra space reserved for your MFT, etc.

    The only likely problem is that if your swap file was highly fragmented you COULD have performance problems. You don't appear to have this problem based on the defrag map you posted. Following the steps noonie suggested certainly would address any of those potential problems.
     
  5. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Posts:
    5,131
    thanks crofttk

    i haven't hubernation file on

    master file table is only SWAP FILEo_O
     
  6. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    No, MFT is information for NTFS on where files are located (assuming you are formatted NTFS and not FAT32) -- nothing to do with the swap file (or in modern parlance, as noonie more correctly named it: page file). This is actually MORE important information than your page file. If it mattered that the MFT was moved, your computer WOULD be dead.
     
  7. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Posts:
    5,131
    U say the green files are mft and they were moved
     
  8. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    I say SOME of the green files are the MFT and YOU say they were moved.

    I say that if they couldn't be moved, they are important enough that your computer would be dead -- is it ?
     
  9. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Posts:
    4,751
    Did you restore the image to the same partition or the same size partition? I did a restore back to the same partition using the bootable CD a few weeks ago and I just looked and my "green" files are in the middle of the Defrag map.

    It would be interesting to know how TI puts stuff back, that is, does it really pay any attention to the actual content of the image file. I could see that if it puts sector 3 back on sector 3 and if you are restoring to a larger partition that the entire contents would shift to the left on the Defrag map.
     
  10. plover

    plover Guest

    I'm not quite sure on this point but I believe that XP itself will move the MFT areas on a reboot if it determines that it needs to be moved.

    I use a defragger that moves the MFT to what they claim is a better location within the partition. Every so often I notice that it winds up in a different area. This I assume is the result of XP moving it.

    So when you restore an image it might be that upon rebooting XP is moving it.

    As I said I am not 100% on this.
     
  11. gue_st

    gue_st Guest

    It is all simple - if TI images the way it claims to, restored partition should be exactly as the source.
    So, if Windows didn't move MFT before, it should not after restore either(if restore done immediately after imaging).

    I understand it was a question from OP.

    Of course, MFT placement would be not a problem in the normal system, but it might possibly indicate something that needs to be understood.
     
  12. plover

    plover Guest

    To eliminate the possibility that XP is moving the MFT around, the partition in question should be restored in the standalone environment and then mapped in a standalone environment before booting it up into XP.

    There must be some standalone utilities that will map out a drive. Maybe Disk Director, PartionMagic, etc.

    And we are dealing with XP. Who says XP always behaves in a predictable manner? :)
     
  13. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Posts:
    5,131
    i did restore the same partition , and ti 9 put these files at the begining of my hardisk every time! and i don't know why





    by the way if u try to overwrite an image file ,and create a new image , TI9 will corrupt this file , try.... i think it a bug!


    by the way is there a software to save only my MFT
     
  14. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Posts:
    4,751
    Haven't go a clue whether there is SW to backup the MFT but I don't really know why you would want to do it since it is rather useless without the file structure that it refers to.

    I also don't know why the moving of the MFT is such a big problem although it would be nice to understand just what is happening and why.

    The MFT is normally placed in the middle of the disk since that provides an "average" seek time for files whether they are at the begining or the end of the disk. The files that are closest to the MFT should be accessed a bit quicker and the heads of the disk typically are over the MFT since it has to read/write the entries to do any disk work. (This is based on systems in general but I don't know if XP follows this idea.)

    If you look at the defrag map that you posted the MFT has been placed in the middle of your files which would give faster access than sticking it in the middle of a partition with lots of free space.
     
  15. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    I'm not sure I understand all the concern correctly here.

    AFAIK, TI does NOT exactly sector for sector image a drive in the most literal sense that it copies every sector regardless of it's contents and I've never seen Acronis claim that it does. Therefore, I disagree that it doesn't do what it claims to do.

    If I have an empty drive and I copy a huge amount of information to it I EXPECT that information to be copied onto the drive starting from the "front" and working it's way back.

    The MFT is where it is and, yes, XP will move around the EXTRA SPACE RESERVED FOR THE MFT, I.E., THE "MFT ZONE" but I'm fairly certain it doesn't just capriciously pick up the whole damn actual MFT and move it around.

    I've watched the position of my MFTs for years, before and after defragging, either with Windows' defragger, Norton SpeedDisk, Diskkeeper Professional, vOpt, OandO Defrag, or my sworn favorite and current PerfectDisk, and before and after backups and restores and have seen this behavior do no harm. So what's the beef o_O

    Hell, that "MFT Zone", which, again, is just extra space reserved for the MFT, NOT the MFT itself, always appears visually to me to be 5 to 10 times larger than the MFT itself will DISAPPEAR ALTOGETHER if my drive gets full enough. If someone wants, I'll try to find the Knowledge Base article or something else I read from Microsoft about it, or someone find it and post the link. I'm about wore out on this thread.
     
  16. noonie

    noonie Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Posts:
    299
    The placement of the mft file and metafiles in a ntfs formated xp volume will yield at the most 5 to 10% increased system performance over previous os's according to Microsoft. They also state that the mft is not at the beginning of the disk as in previous os's but in a more optimal place (they don't state where), and furthur that xp optimizes these locations during idle time.
    Look here, if your interested. Microsoft has many more articles.
    http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/winpreinst/ntfs-preinstall.mspx

    Bottom line is that Ti can put the mft anywhere in ntfs xp and it is fine and will get better with use.

    Don't understand that.
     
  17. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Posts:
    4,661
    Location:
    Menorca (Balearic Islands) Spain
    Hello mantra,

    I too don't understand what you mean. The way TI is supposed to work is as follows:

    Full Image(s) - No Incrementals

    Creating a new full image using exactly the same file name as a previous full image results in TI overwriting that particular previous image.

    Creating a new full image using a different file name to a previous full image results in an additional full image, leaving the other full image(s) untouched.

    Full Image(s) Plus Incrementals

    Creating a new full image using exactly the same file name as a previous full image results in TI overwriting that particular previous image as before. However, the incremental images associated with that previous full image will immediately become orphaned and therefore unusable. They will be progressively overwritten by any subsequent new incrementals based on the new full image.

    Creating a new full image using a different file name to a previous full image results in an additional full image, with the previous full image and its associated incrementals remaining intact. You then have the option of selecting which of the different full images you wish to create subsequent incrementals for.

    Now my question is - which of the above scenarios do you think isn't working correctly?

    Regards
     
  18. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Posts:
    5,131
    Menorcaman yes i know
    make an image with the bootcd ,restart your pc booting with hardisk , reboot with bootcd and make a new image Full Image(s) - No Incrementals , and click on the same file u did before , and u will see that TI9 will corrupt the file try...


    by the way nobody knows why TI9 moves these files after a retore?
     
  19. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    Which is quite significant a change in relative position for a 20 GB hard drive but is not much different from the front for a 250 GB hard drive.
     
  20. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Posts:
    5,131
    i have 2 hardisk of 250 giga
    and i found that the TI9 restore slow down my pc :mad:
     
  21. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    Have you tried running a defrag since restoring ?
     
  22. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    "These locations" are not a reference to the MFT but to files used at boot time and for the first minute or two after booting, viz., those files tracked by the prefetch routine in the "C:\Windows\System\Prefetch" directory (assuming you boot from C: drive).

    One step you can take if prefetch optimization doesn't seem to be doing its job correctly is to simply delete the contents of "C:\Windows\System\Prefetch" which will simply reinitialize the data set the prefetch is using.

    This particular optimization usually occurs every three days or so, IIRC. You can trigger this particular optimization on your own at any time by entering this command at the "Run..." prompt: rundll.exe advapi32.dll,ProcessIdleTasks

    You could give this a try and see if it helps, mantra.

    Ciao
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2005
  23. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Posts:
    4,661
    Location:
    Menorca (Balearic Islands) Spain
    O.K. mantra, using TI 9 Build 2323, I did what you suggested other than I also verified the image after each stage. Here are the results:

    1. Booted from the rescue CD.
    2. Created a full, whole disk (not Files and Folders), image and then ran the Check Archive Wizard. No problems.
    3. Rebooted into Windows and re-ran the Check Archive Wizard. No problems.
    4. Booted from the the rescue CD.
    5. Created a new full, whole disk, image using the exact same file name as before (clicked on the previous image) in order to overwrite the previous archive.
    6. Ran the Check Archive Wizard. No problems.
    7. Rebooted into Windows and ran the Check Archive Wizard again. No problems.
    8. As a final "proof of the pudding" check I restored the image back to my main system drive. Again, no problems.

    From the above results I am left to conclude that either you are doing something fundamentally different or your system is unstable.

    Regards
     
  24. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Posts:
    5,131
    i have a different build!
     
  25. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    pronto mantra:

    Have you read the "PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU POST" thread and followed directions to register at Acronis' website ?

    If so, then you can download build 2323 and continue testing on the same basis that forum members or Acronis Support will try to help you with.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.