I do not think all has been said regarding TDS-3

Discussion in 'Trojan Defence Suite' started by Denny, Jul 25, 2005.

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  1. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    And clearly, they are being allowed to state them. That is why this thread is here and has been kept open and available to all.

    Yes again, that is why this thread has stay opened.

    Ah, interesting how in a topic about TDS you've now moved to debating this forum's moderation methods, what rules there are or are not, where they are located, etc. And while "kind of" politely stated, it obviously has a bit of a snip at me.

    Could it be you have an ulterior motivation to introduce this off-topic commentary here in this thread? Could it be that you are upset because you wanted to have your own separate thread on this topic, which I merged into here? And after I merged it into here, as noted in this placeholder thread, you decided you deserved to have your own separate thread from every other poster here, and reposted the same content in a second new thread boldly titled: "ADMIN, DON'T MOVE THIS!".

    Wrong. If we feel something needs to be moved, we will move it!

    If you don't understand the rules here, which are really no different then most online forums, then you can certainly ask. But, when staff makes a moderation, whether that be a thread move or merge, or even an edit or deletion, those decisions are final. This forum is privately owned and operated, and we will make the decisions we feel are appropriate.

    And there are ways of stating things that are nicer than others. "big wielding stick" has a negative connotation to it. Sure, you can say no attacks are present or no offense is intended, or whatever, but your wording is just edgy enough to take a dig at me while trying to make it look like you're being totally nice and polite.

    In any case, we are allowing continued discussion on this topic's subject. I've replied to your statements here, since you raised them here. But, if you have further issue because you've been "moderated", then you can continue to PM me. We will not discuss this forum's moderation further in this thread.
     
  2. Kentish

    Kentish Registered Member

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    I cant belive people are still ranting over this. TDS was a damned good program that has served many well, but is now becoming out of date technology wise. Time and technology move on, and if DCS feel they need to make a different approach to help in the fight against the nasties out there then so be it.
    Lets be clear though, TDS was only a £30 program, not a £30,000 program so lets put things in perspective.
     
  3. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    Hi Kentish,

    To use analogy, that I think may reflect why so many users are upset (I do not include myself, since I switched to Ewido for real-time monitoring some time ago):

    Suppose you, as a user, spent several weeks (possibly months) deciding on a new alarm system to guard your house, and, after all of this work of finding, paying for, and installing the alarm system, which you feel is crucial to your security, you receive a phone call, on Friday evening, without any warning, that your alarm system has been immediately turned-off and is no longer operational. Hmmmm ... Don't you think this may be just a little upsetting?

    Regards,
    Rich
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2005
  4. Bubba

    Bubba Updates Team

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    @ EWT,

    Your last post was removed.

    As you were told by the Site owner....moderating of posts will not be discussed further in this thread. Please continue the discussion on this topic's subject....or heed what LWM suggested and slide him a PM if you really feel froggy and have anything further to say about this moderating matter.
     
  5. trock

    trock Registered Member

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    This is not much more than another venting thread.

    I bought TDS-3 because most experts felt it was the best in the industry.

    I do trust the DCS vision, and comprehend what it takes to run a meaningful, and financially responsible company. I suspect many posting here probably don't fully get the latter point.

    For me, there's no reason to doubt the intentions of DCS. It's impossible to please everyone, McDonald's sure doesn't. But probably in the end, if DCS were to just say the heck with it, we quit...most people would say "they were a great outfit...they developed products ahead of most others out there..."

    Seems like that's where they are headed, and I'm anxious to know what they bring.

    Just my pennies...

    TR
     
  6. NICK ADSL UK

    NICK ADSL UK Administrator

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    Hi all :)
    Could you please heed bubba"s advice above with regards this thread. Only posts that are strictly in line with this thread"s title please as any outher type of reply will be removed

    Thank you
     
  7. Kentish

    Kentish Registered Member

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    Maybe so, but then its not a £30 pc software item.
    TDS is just a program at the end of the day, and DCS will produce something of equal if not better quality, so lets get off their back.
    They have produced many quality programs over the time, so just because TDS is stopped why does that mean DCS will no longer provide excellent software?

    As I said, perspective is needed.
     
  8. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    I do not think it is the quality of the product that is in question. In fact, quite the opposite. Users, probably would not be at all upset, if they found themselves all of a sudden without a "poor product" (they might be quite happy!).

    Rather than the quality and reliability of DCS products, I believe the question lies in the quality/reliability of the company's managment decisions regarding the best interests of their customer base. Did it have to be done in this way? Were there other approaches that may have been better for users? These are the questions that I believe most of the posters on this thread have posited.

    Regards,
    Rich
     
  9. Kentish

    Kentish Registered Member

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    Since TDS has a determind following, dont you think they were damned if they did and damned if they didnt?
    As I see it, there was no easy way to stop TDS without any amount of people getting upset.
    Ultimately, I feel you have to trust DCS's judgement on the program and way forward, and personally I do.
     
  10. Joliet Jake

    Joliet Jake Registered Member

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    I'd have appreciated an email regarding this so I didn't have to stumble across the news.
    There may be very good reasons behind the termination of TDS-3, but reading the posts, it's been a PR disaster in many peoples eyes just banging up a post on a forum.

    These people will go and tell others and this will do Diamond CS's reputation harm.

    Shame really.
     
  11. F. K. Lane

    F. K. Lane Guest

    I can't believe it. I have subscribed to TDS-3 for over 2 years and the only way I found out is that the news is now all over the newsgroups on Usenet about what DCS did. You are so right. Not even an email-- I mean, how much time and effort does it take to email your subscribers about the situation?!? You ain't kidding when you said a public-relations disaster. Judging from the posts here and in the newsgroups, it looks like the DCS reputation just got a royal flush-- and I'm not talking about the winning kind either. A competely bungled operation which will distance most of their following, including yours truly. :-(
     
  12. P.S. I just read their website-- I couldn't believe what I was reading, particularly in the area of "in the best interests of our customers". What a patronizing statement. I'd like to decide what is in my best interests, thank you. More like in their own best interests, because they couldn't make enough money by giving away the next version for free for all they promised to. Unblelievable.
     
  13. Caratacus

    Caratacus Registered Member

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    No matter which way you cut it, this event has been poorly managed and has created an impression that DiamondCS has not really looked after its customers.

    We could have been told by email that the updates were stopping etc, rather than just wondering why the process wasn't working. Some reasonable offer of compensation (other than licences to programs many - most? - already own) might have been made for those who paid good money for this program and service on the understanding that it would be on-going and that a new version to which they were entited was on the way. Other avenues such as the possibility of paying a subscription to fund the updates might have been explored.

    A little care taken in ending TDS3's distinguished career could have made the exercise more positive. As it is, a lot of us feel that we have been treated poorly, and have lost faith in a company that we have supported, recommended, and indeed gone in to bat for on various forums (as I have here: http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/ProcessGuard/1088370511/1).

    Damage has been done: that's a plain and obvious fact. Now DiamondCS needs to start rebuilding goodwill.
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Couple of points.

    1) I can understand people feeling like it would have been nice to have received an email informing them of the decision, but I am guessing that may have not proved practical. In my business I maintain contact with my clients by email, and phone. But I don't have the need to mass broadcast email, so I have no means to do so. On the few occasions, when I need to send the same email to all 90 of my clients it takes time, in my case a little less than an hour. Sure I could cut that down, but it just isn't worth it for the number of times I do it. If all of a sudden I had to send several thousand emails, I would really think long and hard about if it was really necessary, and/or practical.

    2) Many of the posters keep referring to the tremendous damage DCS has done to themselves. Maybe, but then there are only 160+ posts in this thread, so even if each post represent one person, that isn't a big number. Finding this forum isn't that hard, so if someone looked, they'd find us. Assuming DCS delivers future techically advanced products, and history suggests they will, my hunch is the long term damage won't be very significant.

    3) There also has been much criticism of the way DCS has handled this. I would be curious how many of the posters expressing this, have themselves had to deal with similiar situations. I have, and sometimes you have to do things you don't like, but still have to do them, and do them in a way you don't like. The old adage, till you walk in a mans shoes you really can't judge him, does apply.

    Pete

    PS. The local phone company did something similiar to me in my business, and I was hot about it myself. Being mad didn't change anything, so I had to move on, did so, and actually found a better service. Did it cost me anything? Yep. Did the phone company reimburse me? Nope. We just have to cope.
     
  15. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    Yes, I have been involved in similar situations many times in my career. Basically the steps I took (as part of a team) was to:

    1) Make sure that users had plenty of notice
    2) Help ensure there was some migration path. Users normally have a set workflow and depend upon the software that they are using. Any disruption requires them to tend to the "emergency" right away - leaving other obligations - some of which require immeidate attention - on the back burner.
    3) Make sure there is an equitable compensation for the disruption that was caused through no fault of the user.

    Most of the time this causes great stress on the company that is terminating the product. It is the cost of doing business, if the company wants to maintain company goodwill and loyalty. It happens all of the time in the software business. When a company does not follow through in a manner that is perceived as reasonable by the users, then the disharmony generally has a very long lasting effect. It is the means by which users keep their vendors honest.

    Based upon my experiences, DCS has a situation on their hands. But it isn't over until it is over, and hopefully that which can be fixed, will be fixed.

    Regards,
    Rich
     
  16. T2K

    T2K Guest

    Completely disagree. This isn't a picture viewer or an MP3 player. This is protection software. I have never heard of an AV/AT company ending (update) support without notice. What DCS did is completely unprofessional and inexcusable.

    I also don't think that we are seeing the full picture of customer dissatisfaction on this forum. It is no secret that most people who post here are die-hard DCS groupies.

    The fact that Wayne refuses to reply to a lot of people and that he pulls down a poll started by a member shows that he is feeling a lot of heat over this.

    Someone in the other thread wrote that this is a PR nightmare. It is.

    I hope it doesn't end in a legal action taken against DCS, but I do hope that Wayne learns something valuable here.

    Tom
     
  17. NICK ADSL UK

    NICK ADSL UK Administrator

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    The post by the Guest Chuck Chuckerson has been removed as it was not in keeping with the topic of this thread. As i have said before and will say again will you all keep to the topic in question as failing to do so your posts will be removed

    Thank you
     
  18. polyglory

    polyglory Registered Member

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    I have just found out that TDS 3 is no longer being supported.

    I can understand the reasons why the decision was made, the proverbial happens.

    I use two other of their products, quite happily.

    What I am not to happy about, why could you not E-mail your registered customers about it.

    A point to consider in future please.
     
  19. O_O

    O_O Guest

    Some good points and some bad points and lots of boring slag matching still going on in here I see ;)

    If you were forced into a situation you would do what you can and try to minimize any problems, looks just like what was done here. Could have been done better, but at least free ProcessGuard :) and it works a lot better than betanews "reviews" suggest just use the help file. I'm happy with it :)
     
  20. o_O

    o_O Guest

    Seems an interesting topic about TDS not touched on yet is the detection. TDS-4 would not be made and promised unless it was going to be better than TDS-3 right ? any idiot could hire 4 programmers to make a beautiful new program with flashy GUI and oo look at the "features" and everything. Behind the scenes a couple of them have made great programs for analyzing trojans and removing trojans. But what does this new scanner actually do ? nothing sorry it cant detect anything except a few common junk and lots of false alarms :D but ppl will buy it :rolleyes:
     
  21. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    That would be complete lack of integrity. Not what DiamondCS stands for, so they won't go that slobby road. Of course they could have given us just something, but they want to give us something much better. And that's what we're all waiting for.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2005
  22. worldcitizen

    worldcitizen Registered Member

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    Businesses like this NEED their customers and not to offer at least a month's notice was a huge slap in the face for those who waited for over 2 years for TDS 4. A little courtesy shown could have made the landing a lot smoother.

    I think those who are really upset will speak not at this forum but with their credit cards. A courtesy that should have been shown wasn't and that is regrettable.

    'Courtesy is the Lord of all Virtues'


    Dave
     
  23. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Dave.

    Stop and think about it. You are right businesses need their customers, but they also need revenue. I had already in my own mind questioned the need for a strictly trojan product. There was another thread on that issue. Given that change in the market do you go on developing a product where a majority of the customers that want it would be upgrades, and hence no revenue. Also as to the one month warning. Given the magnitude of the effort to keep the updates going, that effort could delay the bring to market something new for the month. DCS had a tough decision.

    Another issue on the one month warning. If you go through these boards once you realize there is a lot of info on other products. I'd always seen good reviews on Boclean, but never bothered because I thought TDS-4 was coming and also I was suspicious that the memory scanning would load the system. Once I knew about TDS, I thought, why not give Boclean a try, just to see. Turned out it had no impact on my system. A one day process. I realize for some others there are other factors, that might not make it so easy, but given the free trials out there, I don't think a month would have been required.

    I also suspect one impact of all the fuss about this is we might have seen the end of DCS offering free perpetual upgrades on future products. I sure would rethink it.

    Pete
     
  24. ---

    --- Guest

    That's a very short sighted way of looking at things. Unhappy customers are very quick to spread the news. Each person is going to influence a few other people against DCS. In the future, everytime DCS products are mentioned anywhere you can bet this fiasco is going to be brought up.

    Worse yet, many people here are not typical but early adopters and 'experts' that the masses look up to. People who recommend lesser known products to others who would not have otherwise heard of. In particular DCS products. You don't want to alienate these people!

    In this thread alone, I see many people who are getting turned off because they recently recommended this product to friends and now they are looking like a fool.

    Turning any one of them against DCS, means the loss of more than one sale.

    A naive view. A PR nightmare can sink any company, regardless of the superiority of their products.
     
  25. worldcitizen

    worldcitizen Registered Member

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    That's a very good question. Courtesy is a very, very important part of business as you are dealing with people. One should never just take others for granted.

    Dave
     
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