I do not think all has been said regarding TDS-3

Discussion in 'Trojan Defence Suite' started by Denny, Jul 25, 2005.

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  1. AAPlus2

    AAPlus2 Guest

    Hello,To all

    Now not sure if this has been asked yet so i will ask anyway
    is there some way That i can get my hands on WormGuard
    i don't need PG i have it & i don't use it much anyways.

    if so please reply so i may send what info you need
    of me to get going on this here.

    Thank you
  2. Don Pelotas

    Don Pelotas Registered Member

    Jun 29, 2004
    If you had read this thread, you would've noticed this ;) :
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2005
  3. dallen

    dallen Registered Member

    May 11, 2003
    United States
    The law is not black and white and I'm not a lawyer. A good argument that the EULA doesn't nullify the terms of the sales agreement, considering the manner in which they are agreed upon, could be formed. The sales agreement could be strongly argued included TDS-4, and WD-4 for that matter. However, a skillful lawyer representing DCS, et al could formulate a good counter argument, I'm sure. Ultimately a judge would need to decide. In this case, the most important judges are the customers and they will rule with their credit cards.
  4. sick0

    sick0 Registered Member

    Feb 12, 2004
    Jooske, i have high respect for you... forgive me for saying this but that is completely nonsense... MS never promised anything about free upgrade to its next OS, Wayne did...

    im not anti-DCS or anything, i loved their products actually and in my opinion one of the best especially PG... i just don't like the way he handled things (no forewarning) and IMO no respectable companies would do that...
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2005
  5. Mike New

    Mike New Guest

    The last line of the current DCS page says:

    "Keep an eye on our website for upcoming releases and updates, and even a new website which is just around the corner!"

    Maybe that "just around the corner" phase was not the best choice of words given the TDS-4 situation.

    In the meantime, I want to express my thoughts that pro-rated cash refunds are absolutely the best way to handle this situation. It is the only way to instill any confidence at all in the future of DCS. Most folks are not going to opt for extra licenses or programs at this point, as many suspect that (if I may use a crude American expression) DCS and its host of other programs may also be "circling the bowl" at this time and the proverbial plug could also be pulled on those programs at anytime, regardless of what assurances are given. If DCS wants to keep its existing customer base and avoid the type of bad publicity and legal wrangling which has led to the demise of companies much larger than theirs, the pro-rated cash refunds are the ONLY way to go.
  6. Crawling Eye

    Crawling Eye Guest

    It's been a few days since TDS was discontinued, so I've had enough time to really think about this. Here is my opinion.

    I was initially supportive of Wayne and his decision. His starting post in the original thread made a lot of sense. I don't think anyone blames Wayne for discontinuing TDS. Quality AV programs such as NOD32 or Kaspersky have pretty much caught up to TDS's level in trojan protection. New products like A2 and Ewido are coming into their own and are already very good, if not better than TDS-3. I can also understand the difficulty, or rather nuisance, of updating an AV/AT program on a daily basis (although, if DiamondCS were making good money, I am sure they would have no problem hiring a couple more people to help out... which is why I believe this to be mainly a financial decision.).

    Then I really thought about it. I am upset. The way Wayne handled this entire situation is selfish, arrogant, and irresponsible. To stop support for such an important protection software without notice is, well, the equivalent of Wayne basically crapping on everyone's head. And his resulting stance makes me feel like he cares nothing about me or other customers.

    Wayne had an OBLIGATION (to his customers) to provide a window of at least 1 month's notice, to enable people to acquire alternative protection. A lot of time goes into selecting new software. I personally am still unsure of what I want to go with: A2, Ewido, or TH. And what about Wayne's new, secret, product that is "just around the corner"? If it is an AT product, then maybe I should wait for it's release. But, considering that TDS-4's release was being promised for (literally) years, it wouldn't be smart. It may come out next week or, well, never. I don't know what to do. If the new product will be better than it's competition, then I'd be wasting money by first purchasing something else. What am I supposed to do, Wayne? Should I go with something else now or should I wait? And what will you do, Wayne, if my computer gets damaged in the meantime, because you pulled TDS off the market too quickly?

    If the new product is, in fact, an AT product, then Wayne should have kept TDS-3 fully updated to the very day of it's release. In fact, a month into it, so people had plenty of time for the transition. There is no excuse for what Wayne did. I use NOD32, but I feel naked and afraid without a second layer of protection that TDS provided. This is the situation that you put me in, Wayne.

    On a side note, I came close to purchasing BOClean, but then I read Kevin's comments in the original thread. The man sounds like a drunken, blithering, ..... (your choice of word here). I also feel Kevin owes Magnus an apology. Magnus came here to offer support and he was immediately attacked by Kevin. With the dumbest argument of all: that Magnus was personally responsible for TDS's collapse, when it was Wayne's company who offered free TDS updates for life before Trojan Hunter was even born. If anyone is responsible for Wayne not making money because of the "free" update policy, then it is Wayne.

    And here's the other issue. Wayne stated that a lot of the TDS-4's technology is in the new program. So it is an AT product, right? If not, then I apologize. But if it is, then it is basically TDS-4 with a changed name. Maybe a few things added/removed. I'm thinking it's the TDS-4 "guard" without the scanner, since Wayne doesn't want the hassle of daily updates anymore.

    I will tell you something, Wayne. If the new product is an AT product, then you deserve all the hatred that you'll get. A promise turned into a lie will get you every time. Whatever you call your new product, people were expecting a new AT software to replace TDS-3.

    I understand that TDS was your main product, and that this may be your biggest money-maker yet, but going back on your promise and trying to wiggle out of it by calling the new product something other than TDS is the wrong way to go. You should have leveled with people. I personally would have understood, if you spilled your guts and said that you are financially unable to provide the (free) upgrade. I would have accepted a 50% discount and understood that any major upgrades will require a payment. But the lies and the deception... that is just something I can't respect.

    Where does it leave our business? I will purchase your new AT product, but you better pray that it is substantially better than the competition. It if is only marginally better, then I am going somewhere else. Somewhere where the company doesn't take me for granted.

    Furthermore, Wayne, your statement about not responding to guest posters is silly. I have been a registered user of your products for a long time and I don't think I need to register to your forum in order to have a conversation with you. But you don't have to respond, as this is the only post that I'll write.
  7. Referee

    Referee Guest

    I an a licensed user of TDS-3, just some thoughts of the issue, i find it strange that people take this whole thing so seriously. Though a fine program TDS-3 is, it's still just a program, no-one is loosing his genitals here.

    first of all, i find it a fine thing, that Wayne and other Diamond CS people are here replying to our post in a first place. It's not a selfevident thing. So, credits to DiamondCS for that.

    Secondly, Wayne & co has full right to quit a product line whenever he chooses. When a client purchases a program, he takes a risk that a program will not be developed (if that is now a risk at all). Client will get free upgrades *if there will be them*. So simple is that. Now in my opinion DiamondCS has handled this issue very fine, as they give registered users free software, port explorer or processguard. They would not *have to* give them out!!

    ~~ snip / uncalled for comment removed ~~

    LowWaterMark - References to any specific nationalities or other type of similar remarks are not appropriate and have no place here. Talk about the product or the options, but not about the people posting here.

    Also, a reply quoting the removed comment was also removed since the comment itself was removed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2005
  8. Referee

    Referee Guest

    I was *not* referring to any specific nationalities, like my post said "which i don't mention".
    What "Uncalled for comment" means? Didn't find it in dictionary.

    >but not about the people posting here
    Many here talks about the people posting here. How about "snip" other posts too?

    And, what i said, is true. DiamondCS should be given an industrial peace and childish whining about quitting tds-3 product line should stop.
  9. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

    Aug 10, 2002
    New England
    No, you didn't name the nationality specifically, but you described it well enough so that some people might think you were referring to their country, which would then cause them to reply back because they would be offended by the remark if it were about them.

    There was no need for that remark (the one removed). It wasn't about TDS at all, but about some of the people posting here, and that is why it was considered inappropriate.

    It can mean any or all of this: Inappropriate. Unnecessary. A comment for which there was no need to write. One not supporting your specific position related to what you think DCS or its customers should do, but rather a negative comment about the people posting here.

    While I don't consider the comments being posted here as childish, I do have to agree in part that the same comments seem to be getting posted over and over now. Almost no new observations, recommendations and comments are being added anymore. People are basically just saying the same thing over and over now.
  10. StevieO

    StevieO Guest

    I myself have numerous Security Apps on my PC, but they are there as reassurance more than anything else, just in case !

    If people surf in a completely safe fashion, and have done everything they can to Totally Secure their computers and browser, then they have the least to fear or worry about Viruses or Trojans etc.

    I never get any malware on my computer from surfing etc. In fact i have only had one thing happen which was my fault and something i allowed out of curiosity, but was able to fully deal with it.

    I think the vast majority of people out there who don't have a clue about securing their computers, and Security Apps etc etc, and surf unsafely all the time, are the ones in most need of all this stuff.

    But the problem is they wouldn't know where to start, or have the patience to read everything and therefore understand and learn what to do, and what to get and how to set up all the options once they had etc etc.

    So i wonder why some people who are more aware than those i mentioned, seem to to be overly concerned that they are about to be infected with something any day soon until they choose an alternative to TDS. If they have all the measures in place as suggested above, then they should be just fine.

    I would rate the following as good replacements.




  11. fireball

    fireball Guest

    I have found the best TDS-3 replacement out there; it's called Linux/FreeBSD. The best part- most of the software is FREE. Now don't get me wrong, I am not implying or issuing a "guarantee" that nothing bad will happen to your computer- but I honestly feel safer running FreeBSD with no protection, than I do running Windows with a Firewall, Anti-Virus, Spam Blocker, Trojan Scanner, and the turret mounted chain gun with GPS sighting on top of my garage.

    In all seriousness, this post and my previous post are not intended to make fun of the people who feel cheated and/or duped- had I recently purchased TDS-3 and was under a fairly realistic assumption that the product was going to be around for a while, I'd probably be pretty pissed if the plug was pulled before I received what I felt was my money's worth. But I would probably have chosen a different route to ask for a refund- something to the effect of a phone call or e-mail to DCS stating "Dear Sirs, I was sooo disappointed to learn that you have decided to discontinue TDS-3, numerous friends and colleagues had informed me that your Protection Program was far superior to any other Trojan Scanners currently available. Additionally I was very impressed with the fact that your company has been around so long; I am fairly new to this internet thing and very apprehensive about making purchases online, as there are so many unscrupulous companies out there that are just trying swindle honest people out of their money. Your website makes mention of a new product coming out in the near future, although I realize you are not obligated to- is there any chance you would be willing to offer a complimentary or reduced price on this new program? Do to my recent layoff finances are very tight at the moment. I will say that in the very short amount of time I was able to enjoy TDS-3 it is clear that your programs are the best and I have already told all my friends and family that they should not even bother to shop elsewhere for their security software. Thank you in advance for your fair handling of this matter" (alright that was maybe pouring it on a tad thick). But hopefully you get the point. As oposed to going to a public forum and openly trashing someone. In my experience people are generally more willing to accomodate you when you are kissing their butt, than when you are trying to plant your foot in it. If in fact DCS wanted to get out from under a non-profitable "free updates for life" policy by changing the name- then that sucks and everyone is justified in being pissed; Take comfort in the fact that scammers, cheats, etc. usually don't stick around for very long. But I personally don't believe DCS was trying to screw anyone.

    My advice for avoiding virus', trojans, spyware, etc
    1. Quit going to porn sites
    2. Quit downloading porn onto your hard drive
    3. Tell your buddies to quit e-mailing you porn
  12. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

    Feb 12, 2002
    Netherlands, EU near the sea
    Crawling Eye, of course the products all are AT as the whole company is specialised in AT protection / prevention. So expect DiamondCS to do it's business as begfopre, even though it takes new routes in development.
  13. paulson

    paulson Registered Member

    Jul 10, 2004
    South Of Germany
    I should've prefered to wait too, 'cause my opinion changed monumental going through the threads and let some time pass by.

    CRAWLING EYE could you please register (and write this again) to provoke some reaction, just in case there are some lidded-ones out there who need a registerd counterpart to feel save to respond.

    Your statement was comprehensive and closed to what I'm thinking now. So I'm gonna quote a lot, cause your english is better than mine.


    Partially right. There are to many inconsistencies. Sometime Wayne said "around the corner", in another post a "couple of months". Is that the same?
    This sounds not like a real true story to me.

    Right, but, as he said "no time", and it pins to many ressources down.
    DEFINATELY he should have offered us an interim solution, whatever it could've been.

    Personally I'm absolutely not unsure how to continue without TDS3, 'cause there is lot's of other progs out there, even if I have to use a combination of two of them (MS Antispyware/EWIDO...?). Aside from that I have WG and PG installed.
    But I'm very shure that I won't purchase anything from the two other guys that showed up in the other thread. Sorry guys, take a few weeks off to cure your burn-out-syndrom, and do not talk in such nonprofessional manner. Was a good chance to bully in here and do some ad and get rid of some frustration ey?

    If DALLEN was selling software I can imagine buyin' from him, because he mostly keeps a high level when writing (One exception in the other thread, glad you are back without that childish " I am done posting here... ... ... Now I'm going to stir things up." ) and he always shows up as a needful adjustment to some other people. No offend to them who write here on a daily bases to help others, but we need the "other" voices too.

    I think he is right with that too.
    Wayne you acted a little bit of holier-than-thou/arrogant. And your new direction was not presented very clever. I mean, waking up last friday noticing you discontinued TDS3 - anything else? - How to top this off?
    You've shaken confidence of the consumers, that needs more transparency to be corrected.

    That's it, have fun guys, take care - weekend is comming, spelling mistakes can be kept.


    JRCATES Registered Member

    Apr 7, 2005
    This thread is probably very theropeutic and helpful to those with questions, comments or concerns.....so I certainly don't mean to diminish it here with this statement.....but this is simply an observation.

    This may be the longest running thread in the history of Wilders Security forums! It may even be on track to be setting a few records as far as a thread in ANY type general forum (LOL).

    So why don't we consider changing the name to "The Energizer Bunny Thread"....cause it just keeps going, and going, and going....
  15. tuatara

    tuatara Registered Member

    Apr 7, 2004
    Fireball wrote:

    Yes , you are true, i've been working as a UnixSpecialist for > 20 years now,
    at the top 500 Companies, and of course if it must be reiliable or safe
    you need a kind of Unix (like a Sun Microsystems H.A. Cluster) etc.

    I've never seen a 'Air traffic crontrol computer' run a Microsoft OS
    Or bank Stock Exchange computers doing that.

    Or Hospital equipment like MRi or CAT scanners (they always run a kind of Unix).

    Or LARGE webservers at ISP's (iis is only for small environments) / Mailservers (exchange is not suitable for large environments) etc.

    But today, now the prices of computers are lower then they ever where,
    anyone can buy an extra system and install FreeBSD on it.

    And connect it on his network.

    If you use this computer especially for you Internet Connections
    like mail and webbrowsing chat etc. you'll see almost no difference in how you have to use it.

    But of course it is faster, cheaper (pay nothing for sw), and safer!

    And the way the OS is made, you have no problems with Spyware, Trojans etc.

    And you'll find more open source and free software then you'll think there was.

    In those 20 years, i have never seen real problems like that on ANY kind of Unix
    ( Debian. Fedora. Gentoo. Mandrake. Red Hat. SUSE. Slackware. Santa Fe etc. -> Linux), / HP-UX / Solaris / FreeBSD etc .etc.)

    I am working with Microsoft's software since 1975 , and have to work with it,
    because everybody does, and it is my job.

    But for anyone who is specialized in more OS-es, Windows (95 - XP sp2)
    is of course without a doubt the worst.

    And oke it is getting some better, but only because they stea.. eh use more
    and more features of Unix in it.

    But the pro is because of the extreme high sw / OS licenses prices,
    and the Unix-es getting more and more simple (see Knoppix for example)
    more and more Companies swicth over to a Unix and free software
    like OpenOffice , FireFox etc. etc.

    So if you need a REAL alternative to TDS i agree that this is the best option.
  16. Edwin024

    Edwin024 Registered Member

    Nov 14, 2004
    It's really unbelievable what crap some writers give here. All in favour of DCS. It's just a fact that how DCS have handled this is totally wrong. Not the decision to stop. But all afterwards.

    And what Wayne is doing here: I'm flabbergasted. Just don't answer any very legitimate things just because someone writes as a guest.

    I own PG and because of this thread I'm starting to hate it... DCS sucks.
  17. ---

    --- Guest

    Hyperbole. 6 pages is nothing.
  18. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

    Oct 5, 2003
  19. AAPlus2

    AAPlus2 Guest


    Wow this is so sad we are still on this move on
    it's like all of you think the big bad Trojan Programer
    had been holding on to new ideas.

    till TDS was gone i don't think so lit's move on
    yes i say TDS-3 is/was one of the best out here
    but i see some great progs that have come out
    that will be a big help to us all


    Thanks for a great prog i hope & pray for nothing
    but the best to you & DiamondCS

    but i my self i'm glad it happen now & not say
    you put out TDS-4 then this happen man the
    way some are Acting you would have to go in to hiding

    well the best to all of you

    Thank you
  20. I have been using TDS3 for awhile and I am also one of the folks that felt shocked and completely abandoned when the plug was pulled with no notice at all. Extremely unprofessional and indicative of a company out of touch with its customer base. I found this most unusual considering all the I had previously read regarding DCS and its past work in AT research and prevention. I think it is most important for folks to keep this thread on topic and not get involved in any personal mudslinging or degradation. What is important in this thread is how DCS will compensate its customers for products promised at the time of sale and not delivered. That should be the focus. Whether DCS will voluntarily compensate customers, or whether their will be a class-action against the company. Here in the United States, the Federal Trade Commission is also VERY active against internet companies that may have misrepresented their offerings. Let's hope it does not come down to some type of legal action which would be very costly for all parties involved and that remedies can be found to appease those who felt that they were deceived and/or misled. But most important, that's what the focus of this thread should be. It's about DCS and what they have done and nothing else.
  21. EWT

    EWT Registered Member

    Feb 20, 2005

    If the same thing is being said over and over by the same people, then your comment is well taken and probably some forum "house cleaning" is in order. But if different people are saying the same things, then your comment is inconsiderate and inappropriate as a neutral position that your service should be posturing. Every person deserves to be heard even if they want to voice the same oppinions of others. In order for DCS to understand the gravity and shear numbers of potential loss of customers, a reputable forum service with unquestionable integrity would allow and welcome every person's voice to be heard. This is your service to DCS. A reputable forum service certainly wouldn't enter into or take sides in the discussion by commenting about the validity or quality of the posts (unless it was violating some forum rules, which btw, in case you haven't noticed, there doesn't seem to be any forum rules except those you make up as you go along). If there are rules, they are not in an obvious place where everyone can easily find them.

    Now please notice here before you get out your big wielding stick, there are no personal attacks toward you, and none are intended.
  22. Bubba

    Bubba Updates Team

    Apr 15, 2002
    You may have already found Wilders rules....or TOS(Terms of Service) as we refer to them....but they are located on every page in the bottom right area labeled TOS/Privacy
  23. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

    Feb 12, 2002
    Netherlands, EU near the sea
    Would advice people to read, get away from the thread rethinking, reading other threads, before writing the same arguments they just read from others.
    See how much the original opinion changes.
    Take a deep breath, read Wayne's original announcement another time and look another time at opinions.
    Then look back at the past experiences over the recent years, attitude, etc. and then come to a conclusion.
    Of course there are many sides on the whole matter and it does hurt to close a good product, but only done to have oportunities to open new lines which are better suited for the users in this current time.
    Isn't our common experience there is always some nice agreement to satisfy users in business? Think so. But give them the opportunity to create the new stuff to enable them to make the users happy in some decent way.
    The only thing is Wayne is not telling how the offers will look like, learned from experience.

    If we really want TDS-3 to continue till the new product line is getting ready for download we could consider to hire the maintenance ourselves for that while. :cool:
  24. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Sep 20, 2003
    First have you read what DCS said? You say "Whether DCS will voluntarily compensate customers" They have already said they will!

    Without going into the reality of what you posted. It is obvious you are not happy about what happened or why. DCS had to make a business decision. They have stated publicly what their compensation policy is and stated if you aren't happy about that to contact them, and see what you can work out.

    Seems to me that would make much more sense, than this post.
  25. Carver

    Carver Guest

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