I do not think all has been said regarding TDS-3

Discussion in 'Trojan Defence Suite' started by Denny, Jul 25, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Antarctica

    Antarctica Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Posts:
    2,177
    Location:
    Canada
    Hello Wayne,

    I am sorry to tell you are wrong! In december 2004 I was undecided to buy TDS-3 and I was told by many member and moderator: Go ahead, you will be untitle anyway to a free upgrade to TDS-4 in a couple of weeks. :( (Of course, they didn't know at the time)

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=58369

    THIS IS THO ONLY REASON I BOUGHT TDS-3. o_O

    It is you and nobody else that made that offer... :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2005
  2. beetlejuice69

    beetlejuice69 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Posts:
    780
    That`s the same time I bought mine and the same reason for the purchase.
     
  3. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Posts:
    9,713
    Location:
    Netherlands, EU near the sea
    Sorry to help you to the best software i thought to help you with cleansing and protecting your system by then and the best advice not knowing better nor did DiamondCS at that time themselves things would change that dramatically. At least your systems were secure and kept rather clean seeing the support needs after that.
    In the other thread i adviced and still do wait and see what the possible products and offers will be in future.

    Back to work Wayne and cie, we're waiting for the new goodies! Thanks in advance.
     
  4. Antarctica

    Antarctica Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Posts:
    2,177
    Location:
    Canada
    Jooske,
    I have nothing against your advice or other member advice. :) I'm just saying Wayne is wrong saying nobody buys a program because of a free bonus. :D
     
  5. Infinity

    Infinity Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Posts:
    2,651
    :) LMAO patience ....


    OT a little bit: @ majorgeeks there was a mention of PG ... I thought OK.. the new one is ready ...

    it wasn't :D
     
  6. Carver

    Carver Guest

    I trialed TDS-3 in october of 2004, I read in the forum that TDS-4 was just around the corner. Every time some one asked well how near is it to completion The were told shut up and the thread closed. Then there was DCSs posted free upgrade. I wanted to purchase TDS-4 when it was released. I got tired of waiting, so I purchased TDS-3 on 6-9-2005. With the thought in mind that I would get a free upgrade to TDS-4 when it was released. Then on July 25 I read that the TDS line was canceled with no notice. I thought the TDS line was their flagship product. Then theres the matter of wayne's attitude.
     
  7. Dieter Bressem

    Dieter Bressem Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2004
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    Germany
    Do you remember this guy o_O


    ~snip....image removed.....Bubba~


    "I assure you. TDS-4 is no vaporware. It is "around the corner"
    and will be released "soon"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2005
  8. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Posts:
    2,969
    Location:
    Portland, OR (USA)
    Wayne's right.. if he DID offer new licenses for the upcoming product, everyone would be just as upset, but yelling about how TDS-4 never came around so the new one won't either, etc. I think it really is time to chill out for a little while and see how things develop. We simply don't have enough info on anything to really make any judgement calls. Only time will tell.
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    REALITY

    Reality isn't the way we want things to be.
    Reality isn't the way things ought to be.
    Reality is in fact the way things are.

    Reality. Wayne of DCS has made a decision regarding his business for the reason's stated. He also plainly stated what he will do to compensate recent buyers.


    Some understand and welcome the decision so DCS can move on.
    Some don't like the decision period.
    Some understand but don't like the way it was handled.
    Some think it will hurt DCS in the long run.
    Some don't think it will hurt DCS in the long run.
    Some will continue to buy and support DCS products.
    Some may never buy another DCS product.


    The decision is made, the deed is done. No matter how much one thinks that something different were done, or should have been done, the reality is IT IS DONE.

    Wayne made the choice he felt best for DCS and it's clients, and will continue to update what he does in the future.

    Our/your choice. Take advantage of Wayne's offer of compenstation if appropriate, and either continue to support and purchase DCS's future offerings, or not!

    This is reality.

    Pete
     
  10. notageek

    notageek Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Posts:
    1,601
    Location:
    Ohio
    Not taking sides here. But don't think that maybe it's Waynes and the others at DCS to teeminate TDS? I think it is. There's no point in trying to make them feel bad becuase they didn't introduce TDS4 to the world before they terminated TDS. We all should sit back and wait to see what's next that they come out with. Maybe we should thank the DSC team for what they have done and wish them good luck on any other thing they do.
     
  11. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2003
    Posts:
    2,587
    Well sometimes "doing the right thing" can bring about an alternate reality.For example ...Wayne initially offered all TDS3 customers a free licence to either port explorer or process guard.It wasnt until much later in the thread and only after many posts by annoyed customers that he offered a refund as many customers already had these .Ive asked for a wormguard licence ...at least that may come in handy...however i havent recieved a reply yet.
    ellison
     
  12. Mike New

    Mike New Guest

    I have to agree with the original poster of this thread that not all has been said regarding the sad TDS situation. I too puchased the $99 package in anticipation of TDS-4 and waited patiently for some time, alas, to come to this unhappy end. For every gripe on this board, there must be one or two hundred of us sitting in the background waiting for some definative statement from DCS regarding an affirmative refund policy. Rather than haggle with all the individuals who will be emailing, how about posting the parameters of your refund policy for all to see? That would at least be a step in the right direction.
     
  13. Juggernaut

    Juggernaut Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Posts:
    60
    Looks pretty cut and dried to me. I'm not happy about the situation. I would have liked to see TDS-4 also but what has happened is just a fact of life. Life is not getting everything we want or expect at all times. It's full of ups and down and we take our misses right along with our hits. It happens on a daily basis and we move on.

    TDS-4 is cancelled and we have been given an offer that they did not need to give us. This is a case of take it or leave it but your not going to change it because it's already done. It's history. Yesterday's news.

    Now those that want to see what the future holds should stick around and those that care not to should leave. Time for everyone to move on. I'll be sticking around to see what's next because I have been happy with the software I purchased from DCS for the past few years and feel I got my money out of it.

    Those that just purchased the software should contact the company via email and see what can be worked out. A forum is not the place to negotiate a deal and get what you want. Won't happen!

    The snide comments and conspiracy theories do not contribute to the situation as a whole or in part. It's alright to be angry about something but making yourself look like silly in public is not a good thing.

    My last comment does not single out anyone who has posted but if you feel offended by it, you are probably guilty. :D
     
  14. Morpheus

    Morpheus Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Posts:
    45
    I don't know if I am weird in some way for this and TBF I have had TDS-3 for about 3 years and so got more than value for money from it. However I NEVER purchase a particular version of software on the promise of the next version. When I bought KAV at version 4.5 I knew that version 5.0 was on the way and that it was supposed to be a vast improvement in speed, resource usage and mail support but in my mind it was vaporware until it actually came out and even then there was no guarantee it really would be better therefore my decision to purchase was based soley on the merits of KAV 4.5. The same goes for TDS-3 whilst I would have considered TDS-4 a nice bonus for all we know it may have been buggy, a resource hog, have compatibility problems etc. or simply have changed so much as to no longer perform the function we bought TDS-3 for effectively on our systems. Therefore this should never be a factor when purchasing. TBH I always thought that sooner or later DCS would realise the error of their ways with a perpetual license and updates and transition to a subscription model for the updates as the TDS-3 model was a very poor business decision.

    Just my thoughts on this,

    Morpheus
     
  15. Judge Judy

    Judge Judy Guest

    This is not that difficult.

    A 'basis of the bargain' was established when a purchase was made with a promise of a future product. Thus, without that promise, many people would not have purchased the product. There is no 'gift' here, a promise of a future product is part of the purchase agreement.

    That stated, in business things change all the time. And sometimes, contracts (and a purchase with a promise for a future product does enter the seller into an agreement) have to be amended and adjusted all the time.

    Setting aside any claims for outright breach or contract or damages...
    Also setting aside claims that the forthcoming products are similar in nature and owed to current license holders...

    Fair value must be examined.

    Those who purchased within the last year deserve 100% refund.

    What is the average cost of the other three closest competing products?

    Those who bought between one and two years ago should get back one half the price of the average of the three closest competitors, or could choose a credit of greater than that amount for same company products.

    Those who bought greater than two years ago should get.... a lesser amount using the same average of the three competitors with some sort of depreciation built in.

    The "solution" of granting additional licenses, and the wanting of future licenses only clouds the water.

    But the company wants to avoid giving money.... so they should offer a greater value in trade...

    And many people want licenses for future products... but they should pursue money.

    Currency is for transactions, and for resolutions.
     
  16. Carver

    Carver Guest

    We weren't at bat, were we. The decision was made for us.

    Its not so easy when the way it was done is unfair to some.
     
  17. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    Hi Judge Judy

    Your are right. This is not that difficult. Since you are putting it in legal terms. What was the "product" No one has bought a product. If you want to talk legalese, take a gander at this. THIS is the legal agreement, to which every user agreed. Note it guarantees your right to a free update, but doesn't guarantee there will be an update. That TDS said there would be, as the license is the total agreement.



    TERM:
    Licensed end users are granted a license to use TDS-3 with no expiry. This license shall be automatically terminated if you breach any of the terms or conditions. Licensed end users are entitled to FREE updates of all TDS-3 binaries and database updates. Purchase is non-refundable after the license has been generated at DCS. DCS reserves the right to terminate the License at any time.

    OWNERSHIP OF SOFTWARE:
    You can use the software but you do not become an owner of TDS-3. Ownership and title of TDS-3 at all times is retained by DCS for the original program and any subsequent copies irrespective of the media or form in which they exist.

    COPYRIGHT:
    TDS-3 and any accompanying written materials are copyrighted by DCS. You must include this License Agreement and Copyright Notice in all backup copies of TDS-3. You may not sell, rent or lease TDS-3. You may not reverse engineer, recompile, disassemble, or create derivative works from TDS-3. You may not publish your license in any form. You may keep 1 backup of your keyfile.


    ENTIRE LICENSE:
    This License sets forth the entire understanding between you and DCS and may be amended only in writing signed by both parties. NO VENDOR, DISTRIBUTOR, DEALER, RETAILER, OR OTHER PERSON IS AUTHORIZED TO MODIFY THIS LICENSE OR TO MAKE ANY WARRANTY, REPRESENTATION OR PROMISE WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM, OR IN ADDITION TO, THE REPRESENTATIONS OR PROMISES OF THIS LICENSE.

    WARRANTY-FREE:
    DCS disclaims any warranties concerning works of this copy. DCS does not warrant that the software is error free, identifies all known trojans, or may not occasionally report a trojan in a file not infected by that trojan.

    NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES:
    In no event shall DCS or its suppliers be liable for consequential, incidental or indirect damages of any kind
    arising out of the performance or use of the TDS-3, even if DCS has been advised of the possibility of such damages.
     
  18. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Posts:
    1,907
    Inflexibility is never conducive to good health.

    Rich
     
  19. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Posts:
    1,907
    I think Kingsley would give you an A+ for analyzing this case study. I learned a lot from Paper Chase. ;)

    Cya,
    Rich
     
  20. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    Nope. Read the license agreement. Whatever is stated informally is superseded by the license agreement which you accept upon installation. It states you are entitled to free upgrades to TDS-3 binaries. Ergo that only applies IF there are updates, and only if they are to TDS-3 binaries. TDS-4 wouldn't have been that. Sorry.
     
  21. hayc59

    hayc59 Guest

    Another reason to have folks register to post any comments now and in the future!!
    Thats my 2 cents and I know what "WTF" means ;)
     
  22. llllllll

    llllllll Guest

    @Peter2150

    In my opinion, you legal analysis is flawed. In particular, the following statement is unfounded: "as the license is the total agreement". For instance, a license agreement does not supersede a liability resulting from false advertising. Btw. ... are you a lawyer?

    Anyway, no legal analysis is required if VaporWayne sticks to his promise and discusses refund options with recent customers.

    I think people, who are not interested in a PG license, should complain if (and only if) such discussion are fruitless.
     
  23. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Posts:
    9,713
    Location:
    Netherlands, EU near the sea
    You guys might like to check your microsoft programs EULAs starting with whatever windows version you have -- was there anything in them about Longhorn when you installed XP? use, ownership, upgrades, updates, costs and compare them with this.



    Many users do know the DiamondCS company long time and installed the whole lot of their products, of which many free tools. Generally spoken all outstanding products.
    So continue looking forward to new outstanding products for our system security in an all new generation (as we were promissed) -- Wayne ever posted his new stuff would leave a bomb in security country, most certainly did till now although not exactly the kind of bomb we were expecting.
    Anyway, all will be made right soon enough, not any reason to frustrate the new evolvements in any way, let the guys work on it and let's see what they come with.
     
  24. fireball

    fireball Guest

    I can certainly understand where one would be frustrated in buying something and then not long afterwards the product is discontinued. It happens all the time- go buy a xbox and see if Bill Gates will give you your money back when the Xbox 360 comes out this fall; I know its not exactly the same situation- you can still use the xbox even after they stop making games (heck I still play my Atari, they don't build joysticks like that anymore- slam them things against the wall all day long they can take it). It's not like DCS is a new company that duped a bunch of people into buying their products and then folded shop so they could run off with all their millions. They have been around forever and unfortunately there are always going to be some people that don't get as good a deal as others. Heck i'm still hunting down that bastard that talked me into buying beta over VHS; and don't even get me started on the prick that sold me that laserdisc player. Plus I paid $300 for my Xbox and within 3 months they were selling for $150; frickin Microsoft- i'll still end up buying the xbox 360 but i'm really pissed.
     
  25. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2003
    Posts:
    2,587
    I wouldnt call the "free upgrade to tds4" advert at dcs website an informal statement.... but rather an intentional marketing ploy designed to persuade the potential buyer to purchase tds3 .You can nitpick the eula all you like ...it still amounts to false advertising ,and after all.... the claims at the site is what persuades a prospective buyer to purchase...... not the eula ....which the buyer hasnt access too until hes either bought or downloaded the programe.
    ellison
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.