I am tired of being told.

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by trjam, Sep 23, 2009.

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  1. risl

    risl Registered Member

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    I noticed this back in 2007. I bought my Dr.Web license then and this is how it has been since. Nothing has happened.. no malware, no nothing. Using only Dr.Web + Windows XP Firewall.

    Occasionally I try different hips, bb and firewall programs only to make the same conclusion: usability simply doesn't walk hand in hand with protection. Such preparations are just too much for something that has a bigger probability of not happening at all.

    Typical scenario with behaviour blocker: installation -> allow some basic actions for my programs -> sitting silently in the background wasting my resources at every system event and it could do that for the next 5 years without anything truely malicious happening.

    HIPS: installation -> configuring(removing annoying rules/too paranoid rules) -> trusting my programs -> sitting in the background asking for something not malicious multiple times every day and me getting tired of it. Then I start to reconfigure it and after some time, remove it for not being worth all the tuning.

    Firewall: installation -> allowing outbound access for my programs -> sitting in the background eating my resources to investigate network traffic and providing no real protection since I believe outbound control is just blocking holes with wine bottle corks. When you have to try blocking malware accessing out, you are already compromised. If the firewall has hips, then it succesfully combines the "configuration hell+waste of space" element.

    I've just decided to take the easy and trouble free way. I'll report back if I get screwed by malware. It might happen, or might not. :)
     
  2. Kees1958

    Kees1958 Registered Member

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    Trjam,

    You can't use an electric blanket: you do not want your ass to be co-responsible for the global warming problem.

    I just put 6 solar panels on my roof, and I am living in Holland (after the UK and Ireland we have the most rainy climate in Europe), so before I reach the break even point of this investment I will problaby be a pensionado (retired old bugger, emigrated to a country with a warmer climate, I am thinking of West Australia, so SSJ and Franklin be warned).


    Regards

    Kees
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2009
  3. dawgg

    dawgg Registered Member

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    Of course, if you only use 1 AV, its also a good idea to do scans with other antiviruses aswell now-and-then (online scanns or on-demand scanners they provide) - just incase something gets through your AV doesnt notice.

    Just because nothing's detected by your AV, doesnt mean you're clean.

    I do this 2-3 times a year, never detect anything I'm not aware of, but better to be on the safe side.
     
  4. egghead

    egghead Registered Member

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    You can.

    Trust yourself. In life you have to be your own best friend.

    Use stuff that works for you in combi with common sense and safe hex (I know...this is difficult;)).

    In your case this will save you a lot of money :D
     
  5. andyman35

    andyman35 Registered Member

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    The OP does have a valid viewpoint.In the old days malware was far more of an issue in regards to the potential for 'hosing' the system entirely.Now,with the abundance of great imaging products available (many freeware),disinfecting the system is simply a case of reverting to a pre-infection image.As for securing your precious data that's accomplished mainly by the use of common sense.
     
  6. Doodler

    Doodler Registered Member

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    Based on my own experience, I'm not willing to buy into that statement...having gotten nailed about 1 1/2 years ago by a zero-day exploit that blew past my resident AV (Nod32). But I made the subsequent, knee-jerk mistake of loading up on more anti-malware - multiple anti-spyware programs, HIPS, and Eset - and felt more like I was serving my computer than it was serving me. My wife's comment at that time was revealing: "How much time are you spending each week catering to your computer's maintenance?" Eventually I dumped most of that stuff and have comfortably settled on my AV + Sandboxie + SAS. I haven't changed that setup for a year now.

    I like coming here to read the posts and stay informed, but I'm not inclined to make changes to my system based on the "latest and greatest" security claims unless there is overwhelming and time-proven evidence to do so.
     
  7. CogitoTesting

    CogitoTesting Registered Member

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    When TRJAM settles on a single avatar I'll believe him. For now I'm optimistically skeptical :D.
     
  8. tipstir

    tipstir Registered Member

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    Valid points here taken. Most of us try other FW/AV to see how well they work in our network infrastructure environment. The threats today are not like they were back in the 90's. Best we all relax and use whatever software or embedded OS software security features you prefer.

    But sometimes a valid source is always the member who has actually tested out the security software and cares to share his or her results here.
     
  9. Fuzzfas

    Fuzzfas Registered Member

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    You 're in Wilder's! What do you expect! :D

    We can. As a matter of fact, most Wilder's users haven't seen a real malware for ages. But let's admit it. It's all about security applications addiction! And it's all about fear, cultivated by the neverending exploits and AV tests posted here. :ninja:

    Agreed. Most persons in Wilder's could stay uninfected even with no security software at all. But, it's a disease! I bet most people in this forum have spare security software licenses which are not currently using.

    Trjam for President! :argh: :thumb:

    Exactly!


    Ι try to go for the lightest setup with which i feel safe enough.
     
  10. andyman35

    andyman35 Registered Member

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    So very true.
     
  11. Johnny123

    Johnny123 Registered Member

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    Bravo for you! You should now download the old Hank Williams classic "I Saw the Light". ;)

    If you recall, it was only a couple of weeks ago that Windchild and I were being slagged off on for running as limited users, i.e., 98 lb. weaklings, Casper Milquetoast, etc, for not playing High Noon with malware running as admin.

    Not so sure about this one, there's a lot of legitimate sites being hacked and the drive-by downloads are apparently becoming more sophisticated all the time. Crap applications like Flash, Adobe Reader and Java that need to be constantly updated don't help either.
     
  12. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    Right on, Trjam, I'm kinda tired of being fed the same spoonful of "You either have such and such or you aren't fully protected" garbage myself. I think we tend to give the bad guys a lot more credit than they're due. Yes, there are zero day exploits out there, and yes, if they hit you, they can hit you hard. BUT, zero day malware isn't zero day for very long, usually 24-48 hours tops (no, I have no stats to back that up, but it SEEMS to be the case).

    During that time frame, guess who gets hit? Not the ones who rely on AVs only, not the ones who rely on any blacklist-scanner alone, no, the ones who get hit are the ones who don't take 15 minutes out of their week to check for Windows Updates and don't pay attention when their software pops up a little message saying "I have updates!". There is NO 3rd party program that is going to keep those kinds of people safe, and I assure you they don't frequent these forums....and if they do.....wake up you imbeciles and don't blame anyone but yourself when your system gets hosed and your bank account empties.

    I for one do not believe malware is "everywhere" like some here believe and try to get others to believe, even on so-called "bad sites", which I inhabit frequently and RARELY ever see my AV scream about it. Out of all the porn sites (that's right, I said it, porn), P2P sites, gaming sites, and your "normal" sites, I may get one or two alerts every month, and my AV stops it cold. One or two a month at BEST....so where is this "epidemic of malware"?

    There are far more "malware hobbyists" in these forums than your run of the mill user, and I believe that's a part of the problem. You guys doing it for fun and learning I think sometimes forget you deal with, for the large part, POC's and other "not in the wild" threats that are generally just posted up for others like yourselves to see and go "Wow, that's cool". Then you bring all your test scores and everything and start small fires that get out of control with others losing faith in the products they are using and in their own ability to keep themselves safe.

    I'm not picking on you all, but it's my opinion that you guys are a big part of why there are so many "What are you using?", "How can I be bullet-proof?" and "Should I switch?" threads. There's a line between educating and confusing people. For what it's worth, it's my opinion.
     
  13. renegade08

    renegade08 Registered Member

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    Really true.

    And
     
  14. wat0114

    wat0114 Guest

    I have one pc running the last couple months, full Internet access and use, with only Sandboxie as a third party app. Its O/S is XP SP2 only - in other words short approx 100 critical updates - and it has not incurred infection of any kind, and I'll bet it stays clean for a very long time ;)
     
  15. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    Works quite well for people that know what they're doing
    :thumb:

    I however am not QUITE that brave :D
     
  16. Page42

    Page42 Registered Member

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    Just asking... if all you run is Sandboxie, how do you know that it has not incurred infection of any kind?
     
  17. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    I would imagine it's for the simple reason that once Sandboxie is cleaned out, whatever was there is gone *shrug*. Also, Wat may be speaking of actual infection and NOT simply seeing viruses and malware. There's a big difference.
     
  18. sun88

    sun88 Registered Member

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    huh?
    If he hasn't run any scanners then he doesn't know if he is infected or not. Spyware could be sending his personal information to China for all he knows.
     
  19. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    Um, no, not if he has Sandboxie configured right, there isn't. Sandboxie can be configured to stop keyloggers dead, which is the only thing that would sending out anything worth worrying about. As far as other spyware programs, they honestly don't do anything but annoy the hell out of you, and they are gone once Sandboxie is cleaned. You're assuming Wat doesn't know how to use and configure the program, and also browser configuration comes into play here also. No allowed script execution means no drive by downloads.
     
  20. Nebulus

    Nebulus Registered Member

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    While I agree with most of Trjam's post, there is a part where I have to strongly disagree:
    Maybe If you would refer to an educated user, yes, the chances of getting malware is almost zero. But for an AVERAGE user, from my (somewhat short) experience as a network admin I learned that most of the people just click on things. :) Of course, if you have this kind of behavior, nothing can save you from getting malware at one point in time, but I wanted to point out that an average user has a pretty good chance to get infected.
     
  21. dw2108

    dw2108 Registered Member

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    I dunno. Most ISPs have had to install the spam filters at their connect point, as well as block ports owing to the fact that many users don't know what a firewall is or never update their AV. As bad as the internet is, many are finding less crapware anywhere, unless we d/l it and install it. I feel safe surfing safel with only a good browser and a f/w.

    Dave
     
  22. FRug

    FRug Registered Member

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    Ok this is a rant :)

    The "average" user is:
    a) clueless about malware
    b) clueless about updates
    c) not interested in learning about either

    While that might sound harsh and possibly offensive, it is a reality usually not perceived by any of us working in the field of IT or enthusiasts, as we're too much taking things for granted. What seems logical or valuable knowledge to us, is a totally incomprehensible mess or of no importance to most people.

    Why are interfaces getting more and more 'dumbed down' for the consumer market? Because there is demand for it, no matter how much it pisses off people like us who like to "have control and tweak things" to our liking.

    Last weekend I cleaned a PC (operating with a screen refresh rate of 60Hz on a CRT because the owner was unable to change the refresh rate) that was infected with 7 different trojans and backdoors, although I usually do no longer perform such tasks. The resulting reaction was "oh well, computers are overrated anyway, so it's not really a problem for me" regarding the virus, and "I can't see a difference" when i raised the refresh rate to 85. There a millions of people out there using PCs having no fundamental interest in the subject or even though do not even want to, but have to due to external circumstances.

    THAT, my friends, is the average user. They want things to work, like their radio or TV. They do not _want_ to know how the TV works. They want shiny pictures flashing on their screen!

    And they do get infected. By the hundreds of thousands. If it were different, there'd be no "malware industry", no online fraud, no phishing, no viagra spam.

    I'm not saying the "average" user is stupid. He/She just isn't interested in the subject further than "I want to write a mail to my daughter" or "I want to print this letter I wrote" or "I want to play this poker game!".

    We 'experts' in our overbearing manner claim that "If they want to use it, they HAVE to learn about the subject of security!" But think about yourselves, aren't there things in your life too that you simply use/wear/enjoy/consume but do not understand, however lack the interest to spend your free time on learning what's going on behind the scenes?

    I know I do.
     
  23. dw2108

    dw2108 Registered Member

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    @ FRug How many times did that person call his PC/Monitor vendor to report a broken PC? :D

    Dave
     
  24. wat0114

    wat0114 Guest

    Default deny setup.
     
  25. FRug

    FRug Registered Member

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    Not once AFAIK. The system worked like a charm, aside from being infested... I initially came there to install a printer driver...
     
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