How Rude

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by controler, Jul 12, 2004.

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  1. controler

    controler Guest

    not that anybody but me cares but i think it rude to remove my post in the update section without even a message.
    Guess this forum has changed alot since the early days huh?

    Just thought it was a bit funny for the DEF's date.
    Guess others didn't think so ey?

    controler
     
  2. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Actually, controler it was removed because it was a duplicate of another update notice thread that was already posted there. We delete two or three dupes, and something like 20+ normal updates every day from that forum section. It's been standard operating procedure in the Update Alerts section for quite a while now, especially since the high volume updates started getting posted there several months back.

    If you didn't see the progression on that thread before it was removed, I'll bring it back here for a little while, in this section so you can see it. ;)

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=41001

    Now, had it not been posted in the Update Alerts section, it probably would have remained as a discussion regarding the date format differences in the AV interface. Hmm, in fact we could leave it here in this section for that discussion now that I think about it.
     
  3. FanJ

    FanJ Guest

    Hey Controler, my old friend,

    We both are going back to those old days when we were still at the EZ-board ;)
    You were one of the first posters; I DO remember :)

    Please Controler, don't take it too hard, if only for me: please ! ;)
    Please have trust in the mods, they deserve it !!!
    Hey, even I myself sometimes drive them crazy, when I reply in an update thread; which -of course- I shouldn't do (LOL, I made the first rules for that forum-section :rolleyes: ).


    Warmest regards as always !!!
    Cheers, Jan.
     
  4. FanJ

    FanJ Guest

    Oops, Sorry Mike (LowWaterMark),

    I didn't see your posting while you were posting your reply :oops:
    Sorry again Mike !

    Warm regards, Jan.
     
  5. ZeldaManiac44

    ZeldaManiac44 Registered Member

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    That isn't even the worst of it, they block you from posting at all to another person's thread in the adware/spyware/hijack cleaning forum.

    The details are here.

    I just think there's no harm in letting another registered user make a simple comment, I mean I agree with the idea that only a professional should make the direction of whether or not to delete an object in HJT, but they're forgeting something important: That there are plenty of professinals in the software industry, poeple who are computer analysts, people who are network administrators, and even other security professionals who have never bothered to use HTJ, and probably because they don't need to. I've seen plenty of people who are capable of resolving a person's troubles with no need for such analisis tools as HTJ, sure, they may use a spyware-removal application, but who doesn't?

    That's why banning every single person who isn't certified to review HTJ logs is one of the most ridiculus things I've heard. Furthermore, by establishing sucha rule, any old buffoon can go to one of the sites specified in the thread I linked to above, and get "certified" to review HTJ logs and not know hardly a thing about any of the other subjects that are PC related. Someone like a computer analyst, or a computer engineer on the other hand will know all of those things that your average Spyware Fighter might not know.

    I'm not trying to offend anybody in saying this, I just making an observation of the flaws in this new forum policy here. Basically, I'm venting, so there's no hard feelings intended. :)
     
  6. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    They have to have a static rule concerning posters in HJT, and it is to complicated to try and create exceptions for a few so it has to encompase all.
     
  7. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Exactly, bigc is correct. How is anyone supposed to know that Member X is a brilliant computer engineer out in the real world, so his advice is well informed, but Member Y just thinks he knows what he's talking about and posts advice that, if followed would damage the person's system badly enough that they have to reformat?

    You have no idea how much terrible advice we've had to remove from hijack log threads in the past, and some of it would certainly have caused major system damage. So, you tell me how we allow every real world expert to give advice, but not someone idiot who doesn't know what they are talking about? Don't think it'll happen? It already has, over and over again.
     
  8. ZeldaManiac44

    ZeldaManiac44 Registered Member

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    Well, I truly wasn't trying to make a big deal about it -- not yet. I mean if I wanted to really make a big issue I would've emailed an administrator or someone.

    Not only that, but as I said there was no offense intended.

    Since you posted your though, I have to ask you this: Can you deny that by establishing the said rule on the HTJ subforum you are supressing the insight of many people, who, can most likely provide help for another registered user?

    Allow me to reiterate, everyday there are new registered users, many of whom may or may not be knowledgeable in many aspects of computation or software, and who may or may not be college graduates who've dedicated a great deal, if not all of their lives to these subjects, and thus merit, at the very least to be able to post, because when you think of it, it's only win-win for the mods like yourself, because by allowing such compromises will also allow some of the knowledgleable registered users to take some work off your sholders, is that not true?

    And it's not just about them, what about the hundrends of people who come to forums like this one just to learn something new, myself included. We want to be able to ask questions of the moderators without having to PM them to do it. I maintain that the biggest problem is that in granting Spyware Consultant, Moderator, or any other privledge levels to someone who, learned all from Spywareinfo.com's Boot Camp or similar sponsors can never compare with a person with 15+ years in the computer engineering, analisis, software, or hardware industries, because although there's chance the person whom you elect has those expertise as well, it could very well be they've only got 2-3 years experience behind them, so one has to be careful in electing such people, and it should not be done right off the bat, as they say -- do you see my point?

    You can't ignore any of those aspects of this policy.
     
  9. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Moved from other anti-virus software forum to the section for board related issues.

    ZeldaManiac44, you have good points to be sure, but the question in my post remains. How is anyone supposed to know the good advice from a real expert and the bad advice from a non-expert. All normal member ids look the same and some people who don't know what they are talking about can look very intelligent.
     
  10. FanJ

    FanJ Guest

    Maybe the first time on this board that I have seen an admin qualifying a poster as an idiot...
    Oh well
     
  11. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    I am sure there are knowledgable people that might post in HJT but there are a lot that would inadvertently or intentionaly post bad info that can cause seriously system problems. This is not speculation it has happened many times in the past.


    posted by Low Water Mark
    How is anyone supposed to know that Member X is a brilliant computer engineer out in the real world, so his advice is well informed, but Member Y just thinks he knows what he's talking about and posts advice that, if followed would damage the person's system badly enough that they have to reformat?
     
  12. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    o_O Jan, I wasn't qualifying any specific member as an idiot. That was a hypothetical question about "some person posting bad advice" in a hijack review thread, and how other members were supposed to know who was qualified and who was not. "Speaking in generalities."
     
  13. hayc59

    hayc59 Guest

    this is not true at all!!
    as mentioned in my responce to your pm
    there was a message posted after your and mine
    by the 'Mod' in that section

     
  14. ZeldaManiac44

    ZeldaManiac44 Registered Member

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    Ouch, X0 You don't need to bite my head off.

    I wasn't really offended though, because I've had people who've used much more forceful language on other forums, even explicit/profane language, so yours pale in comparision.

    I do however heed your words very clearly, and just for the record, I suppose you could say I have good faith in my fellow registered users. Furthermore, I've always been a nerd who spend a great deal of his time on online forums, and especially Spyware Assistance themed ones like cexx.org, net-integration.net, or what have you, plus others as well. And I've never seen extensive abuse of privledge as you say, namely, situations where a person who thinks they're a know-it-all posts directions that are false.
     
  15. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Gee, I'm not sure why you'd be offended by my comment because in that scenario you'd be the "brilliant computer engineer out in the real world", versus the other nameless poster who'd be the idiot posting bad advice that we'd have to remove. If the generalization was not as apparant in my reply as I thought, then I apologize. :oops:

    Unfortunately, the fact remains that we've remove a whole lot of dangerous fix postings from that forum prior to tightening the security. We looked at the situation long and gard before securing that forum that way.
     
  16. ZeldaManiac44

    ZeldaManiac44 Registered Member

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    Ok, ok, you've made your point about the fact that some malicious users will intentionally provide false advice, but I believe this only occurred because Wilder's is one of the most popular and most well known forums, on other, smaller forums like http://forums.net-integration.net I've never seen any such occurrence.

    I now think the policy is slightly more useful, at least for this forum, but I think it's foolproof. Don't you think the same malicious users might somehow get though? I mean like I said before, electing Spyware Fighters is a very catious thing, is your not careful matbe some malicious user who set out to become a spyware fighter just to sabatoge poor, unsuspecting people could pretend to be noble until it no longer works to their advantage, that's when they'll start sabatoging people.
     
  17. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Certainly possible, but they wouldn't get away with it for very long before they were caught and stopped. Such a hypothetical malcious spyware fighter wouldn't get to make very many bad fix posts before being seen by other member's or experts who would then report them.
     
  18. hayc59

    hayc59 Guest

    [QUOTE] Because of the real danger of causing serious operating system damage support advice on HijackThis log review requests are typically handled by volunteer staff from the Expert and Trusted Advisor group although assistance may come from the Site Administrator, Adminstrators, Global Moderators, Team Spybot, and other registered members on occassion.[/QUOTE]
    http://forums.net-integration.net/index.php?showtopic=19427
    is this what your referring to ZeldaManiac44??
     
  19. ZeldaManiac44

    ZeldaManiac44 Registered Member

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    You misunderstood, both FanJ and I had thought you were reffering to me as the idiot, but after reading your response to FanJ's one, then I see that you didn't mean any offense either.

    This is why I try to steer clear of debates, they can easily erupt into flame-wars if something is misinterpreted, I've had it happen where people have grossly misinterpret something that I've said, so I'm sorry for misinterpreting your analogy about the engineers vs. know-it-alls, or malicious people who'd just want to sabatoge.

    You know, if you don't mind I think we should change the subject, like I said in the beginning I wasn't trying to make a big deal of this policy.

    Also, I should wrap this up entirely for the night, because I'll be getting to bed in a while.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2004
  20. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    change the subject o_O Ok did you know I was a serial killer, just last week I did in a bunch of cherrios and some frosted flakes. And I wounded some rice crispies :D ;)
     
  21. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Actually, this is a good topic and discussion. We debated this so much before implementing it, and all the different sides of the question had merit, that it was a close decision in the end.

    In any case, have a good night. ;)
     
  22. ZeldaManiac44

    ZeldaManiac44 Registered Member

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    And you can be sure that I'll be reporting any activity deemed suspicious by Spyware Fighter and User alike.

    Don't forget LowWaterMark, I'm also one of the millions on this planet who's been infcted with spyware, so I'm not about to stand by and watch someone else get conned.
     
  23. ZeldaManiac44

    ZeldaManiac44 Registered Member

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    http://forums.net-integration.net/index.php?showtopic=19427
    is this what your referring to ZeldaManiac44??[/QUOTE]

    Yes hayc59, that's exactly the board I was referring to, thank you for the example.
     
  24. ZeldaManiac44

    ZeldaManiac44 Registered Member

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    Lol!

    Oh, man, I gotta admit that was funny bigc! :)

    Oh! I just remembered something, earlier this evening I sent you a PM, did you get it?
     
  25. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    Yes I did and I posted a reply in the HJT thread in question.
     
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