HDM14 + Win8.1 success :-)

Discussion in 'Paragon Drive Backup Product Line' started by RPMtl, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. RPMtl

    RPMtl Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Posts:
    39
    I wanted to know for sure that a backup of my Windows 8.1 system would restore properly. But I was not willing to trash my SSD install if the restore might fail. This week I bought another SSD of the same type and capacity as what’s in my laptop (for another use) so it offered a perfect ‘risk free’ opportunity to test Paragon Hard Disk Manager 14 (latest update: v10.1.21.334) to see if it would properly restore my system backup.

    DETAILS:

    Lenovo Thinkpad x131 (Intel), GPT partitions, UEFI bios.

    Samsung 840 Pro 120GB

    OS: Windows 8.1 (64bit)

    Backup up performed to an external USB 3.0 portable drive

    Backup restored with the target SSD connected to a Windows Vista 64bit computer via a Vantec NexStar SE mobile rack. The restore took about 15 minutes, maybe less – I wasn’t timing it.


    *********************

    After swapping the SSDs the new one booted flawlessly and all installed software is working without any problems (no software licensing activation problems).

    So if anyone is worried that HDM14 might not work as advertised with Windows 8.1 I can report that it worked perfectly for me.

    R
     
  2. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Posts:
    140
    Splendid to know, thanks!
    What version of HDM do you have? Is it the Suite? I have the Pro version and still only 10.1.21.136 is available through 'My Downloads' (https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=2327422&postcount=12)

    Maybe I am a bit slow, but I should like to know how you performed the restore process. Did you boot from a WinPE medium (DVD or USB Flash stick). If so, how did you create the WinPE image? With Paragon BMB (Boot Media Builder) or RMB (Recovery Media Builder)?
    Or did you restore with HDM in a normal Win 8.1 environment?

    The reason why I ask:
    I am running HDM 14 Pro on a Win7 computer. My wife has recently acquired a Win 8.1 computer (where a HDM 12 license is installed, it seems to work very well running the backups to an portable USB 3.0 drive connected to my Win7 computer). I am considering to upgrade the HDM 12 license to HDM 14, but I prefer to know that I successfully can boot the Win 8.1 computer from a WinPE image. I have succeeded to create a Win8.1 bootable CD with Paragon BMB and Microsoft WADK installed in c:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\8.0\Assessment and Deployment Kit (installed with ADKSeutp.exe from 2012; I think this is WinPE 4.0). I have tried the latest ADKSetup from MS (released October 2013) which installes WinPE in c:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\8.1\Assessment and Deployment Kit, but BMB failed to create an image with this version of WinPE. Maybe this is version 5.0?

    The WAIK and WAKD versions are a bit confusing. Maybe Robin A can give me an understandable answer?
     
  3. SIW2

    SIW2 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Posts:
    1,572
    Not sure why paragon is not making pe using wadk (pe5) version for you. Iirc it worked fine for me. How far does it get, any error messages ?

    Just to be clear - are you tying to make pe5 on your wife's machine running 8.1 and HDM12?



     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  4. Robin A.

    Robin A. Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Posts:
    2,279
    These procedures may avoid having problems when using Boot Media Builder for HDM 14:
    • If you are going to use the WinPE in a Windows 8.1 machine, create it in a Windows 8.1 machine (not in Windows 7). Use WADK for Windows 8.1. Boot MB should recognize automatically the WADK installation.
    • If you are going to use the WinPE in a Windows 7 machine, create it in a Windows 7 machine. Use WAIK.
    In both cases, if you use a localized (non English) Windows version, use the English version of WADK or WAIK (not the localized WAIK or WADK). In Windows 8.1, this may be not necessary if you use a localized Windows version but have the English package installed.

    Edit: modified according to John Doe Genius´s post #5 below.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  5. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Posts:
    140
    Thanks, SIW2. Most test were performed on my Win7x64 Pro computer with HDM 14 10.1.21.136.

    Test A - 11.01.2014 with Win7/HDM 14
    ADK environment ..\Windows Kits\8.1\.., boot media type ISO
    Added 64b drivers for USB 3 and network.
    As soon as the settings were finished the screen displayed "Cannot Complete Boot Media Builder. Can't mount the image. Possible reason could be not sufficient free space on C: volume."; no progress screen. I tried to deactivate the firewall/AV to no avail.

    Test B - 12.01.2014 with Win7/HDM 14
    ADK environment ..\Windows Kits\8.0\.., boot media type ISO
    I am not sure whether I added the drivers.
    Progress screen with the complete processes, from 'Copying the source image...' to 'Creating an ISO image', but a red cross at 'Installing <en-us> WMI package'
    The result was BMB_ADK8.0-2014-01-12.iso; burned to CD, works well on both Win7 & Win8 computer.

    Test C - 12.01.2014 on Win8.1 comp with HDM12
    ADK environment ..\Windows Kits\8.0\.., boot media type ISO, no drivers added.
    Process: No WMI package message, ended with 'Creating an ISO image'
    Result: BMB_Win8_14-01-12.iso
    The CD works perfectly on both computers! (But unfortunately en-us keyboard.)

    Test D - 12.01.2014 with Win7/HDM 14
    ADK environment ..\Windows Kits\8.0\.., boot media type USB Flash, no drivers added
    Progress screen: Same as Test B, but then 'Cannot Complete Boot Media Builder, Bootable flash creation has failed.' The memory stick was not reformatted.

    Could you please tell me, does the path ..\Windows Kits\8.1\.. indicate I am running WinPE 5.0? Through my search on MS sites I found: “To see which version of Windows PE you’re running, type regedit and locate this registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\WinPE”, but I have no WinPE key on any of the computers!


    When running Test A I had a 88 GB C: drive, approximately 25 GB free. Due to the message from BMB - not sufficient free space – I used HDM 14 to resize the partitions. Paragon is not the most intuitive software I have, but it is reliable. This was the second time I used Paragon for resizing. I ran the task from normal Windows mode. Perfect, the C-drive has now a total size of 128 GB with 69 GB free. Paragon has never turned me down when I had to restore a backup image (or just tested the feature).

    I just performed another USB Flash try; the same result as Test D.
     
  6. Robin A.

    Robin A. Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Posts:
    2,279
    John Doe Genius:

    You have encountered language problems when using BMB, as I did. See my previous post #4, which was modified according to your experiences.

    In particular, I don´t use WADK in English in Windows 8.1 and the WinPE is created without errors, but apparently this is because I installed the English language pack. You might try this (although the configuration of language and keyboard in Windows 8.1 is somewhat confusing), or just try WADK in English.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  7. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Posts:
    140
    Thanks Robin A., I appreciate you took your time to answer.

    For my Win7 computer I have always used the WAIK (localized version), because I did not feel WADK gave me any benefits. My use of WADK is caused by the fact that my wife has got a Win8 computer. As you can see from my Test B and C I have successfully created a CD on both machines, and I can use both CDs on both machines (with EN-US keyboard). I achieved the success after reinstalling what I think is WinPE 4.0.

    Could you please (eventually) confirm my assumptions in post #5:
    Could you please tell me, does the path ..\Windows Kits\8.1\.. indicate I am running WinPE 5.0? Through my search on MS sites I found: “To see which version of Windows PE you’re running, type regedit and locate this registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\WinPE”, but I have no WinPE key on any of the computers!

    I found the registry statement at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn293271.aspx

    My current problems is:
    *I am unable to use BMB (HDM 12 worked wll) to create an USB flash recovery media (according to MS is both 4.0 and 5.0 usable with Win7)
    * “My Downloads” at Paragon still offers ver 10.1.21.136 for HDM 14 Pro.
     
  8. SIW2

    SIW2 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Posts:
    1,572
    The key is the bolded word above. You won't have that reg entry in your installed windows. It is in the registry of winpe.
    If you are curious about what version of WAIK/WADK you have installed,then 8.1 indicates the deployment tools and images are for making pe5.0

    What keyboard do you want? It seems that paragon ( and I expect most others ) will use the default settings in the MS supplied winpe.wim
     
  9. wptski

    wptski Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Posts:
    564
    Location:
    USA
    For me on W7 64-bit with en-us, using WADK, BMB fails because it can't install the language package ever since Paragon changed HDM to 64-bit. I posted this before and you commented that there's no reason for it to try to install the package but it does. Paragon support suggested a few things that failed and then deleted my support ticket! o_O
     
  10. Robin A.

    Robin A. Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Posts:
    2,279
    Me too. But Boot MB for HDM 14 is different. My experience is that in Windows 7 it´s necessary to use the English WAIK. With localized WAIK, the process produces warnings and it fails with the error: “Cannot complete Build Media Builder – Cannot install WIM package”.

    When I use localized WADK in Windows 7, the process finishes with warnings (as you noted in your post). The WinPE may appear to work well, but the warning should mean something, the process doesn´t end normally. Besides, in my case it produces errors that are only apparent when you browse the interfaces and try to open all the wizards (error code 0x200000a in some wizards, which vary from one try to another).
    I suggest you build the WinPE in the Win 8 computer, using WADK for Windows 8. If the English language pack is installed, the localized WADK may work (this happens in my case). If not, try the English WADK.
    You have WADK for Windows 8.1 installed. It will produce a WinPE 5.0, based on windows 8.1.
    I tried this once, using the command line from a WinPE. As I remember it indicated the WinPE version I was using. I haven´t used it recently.
    I haven´t try to use Boot MB to create USB Flash drives. I always create an ISO file, save it, and create the USB Flash recovery drive with Rufus. Rufus is very small, doesn´t install, and allows to “customize” the recovery drive according to the target computer (UEFI, BIOS).

    A USB Flash drive with WinPE 4.0 or 5.0 will work in Windows 7. But, in my case, the USB 3.0 ports and external USB disks works slowly. I prefer to use WinPE 3.0 with Renesas drivers for USB 3.0 added. This can be different in other computers.
    It appears that, for some reason, they haven´t released the latest version for the Pro, only for the Suite
     
  11. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Posts:
    140
    Thanks a lot, guys. Your participation exposes the value of a user forum like this.

    @SIW2
    I want to use the keyboard driver installed in Windows:

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MUI\UILanguages

    I have the subkey \nb-NO with these entries:
    LCID = 0x00000414 (1044)
    DefaultFallback = en-US

    And I should like to have to correct time-zone:
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation
    TimeZoneKeyName = W. Europe Standard Time

    You may not recall it, but you have previously teached me/inspired me to create my own rescue media. DISM.exe tells what I want with the command “Dism /online /Get-Intl”:

    Default system UI language: nb-NO
    Fallback Languages: en-US
    System locale: nb-NO
    Default timezone: W. Europe Standard Time
    Active keyboards: 0414:00000414, 0409:00000409
    Keyboard layered driver: PC/AT-forbedret tastatur (101/102-tasters)

    Installed language(s): nb-NO
    Type: Partially localized language.
    Basis language en-US


    @wptski & SIW2
    My W7x64 with nb-NO gives me the correct keyboard when I use BMB with WAIK or Macrium Reflect.

    BMB with WADK or RMB gives me the incorrect keyboard (en-US).

    IIRC, previously I had an input dialog for selecting the keyboard settings in an app from another vendor (Macrium?)


    @Robin A.
    So far I have no localized version of WADK.

    About BMB's inability to create a WinPE image on a UFD: I simply unpacked the iso-file with 7-zip and copied the contents to a previously correctly formatted and bootable UFD. It seems to work as it should. But I have now downloaded Rufus; I am going to try your solution.

    In any case, there is something wrong with HDM 14 Pro since it cannot create the UFD. It worked well with HDM 12 Pro.

    Another curiosity: According to the documentation the Express Mode launcher should have the Metro design, but I have the old layout!!

    @SIW2 & Robin A.
    English is not my native language; I did not distinguish between 'running' and 'installed'. But now I see, when running WinPE I have the version key in the registry.

    Thanks for the clarification, why should we do things the simple way when we can do it difficult? All of us talk about Windows 7, Windows 8.0 and 8.1, but the 'version numbers' seem to be like this:
    v5.1 = Windows XP
    v6.1 = Windows 7
    v6.2 = Windows 8
    v6.3 = Windows 8.1

    Thanks, Microsoft!
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724832(v=vs.85).aspx
     
  12. RPMtl

    RPMtl Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Posts:
    39
    It’s been a long time since I bothered using recovery CDs or DVDs to restore a system. As I have more than one computer I just use a second computer to do the restore. This allows me to take full advantage of things like USB 3.0 or eSATA drives to make the process quick and painless. The only requirement is that you have some way of attaching the target drive to that second computer. I use mobile Vantec eSATA mobile rack systems on my desktop computers, so it’s easy for me to pop a drive into a tray and insert it into a front loading slot. Before using Paragon's software I used Acronis and the restore procedure is the same.

    My Windows 8.1 backup was made using the most recent updated version of Hard Disk Manager 14 Suite.

    Here’s my procedure:

    1) Backed up the 120gb laptop SSD (running Windows 8.1) to an external USB 3.0 2.5" HD. That takes only about 10-15 minutes.

    2) Copied the backup file from the external drive to my 2nd computer's HD. That was perhaps not necessary, but I have the HD space free and it avoids accessing an external drive for the restore.

    3) Popped the SSD into the SATA mobile rack and confirmed the system could see it. If not, I launched Disk Management *( RUN -> diskmgmt.msc ) to initialize the new disk.

    4) Launched Hard Disk Manager 14 Suite on the second computer, clicked ‘Restore’, loaded the backup file, selected the new target drive (ie: the SSD in step 3), confirmed that everything looks right in the preview and then pressed ‘commit’ to begin the restore process. The restore took about as much time as the backup (about 10-15 minutes) and I then shut down my 2nd computer and removed the SSD.

    5) Swapped the restored SSD with the one in my laptop, making sure to remove the battery first. Popped the battery back in, re-booted the Laptop and everything launched in a few seconds.

    fwiw: I use a Vantec EZ-Swap Nexstar SE MRK-525ST for my SSDs (one system SSD and the other slot empty) and two EZ-Swap2 MRK-300ST-BK units for 3.5" drives to which I regularly archive my photography files to 2 separate drives.

    R
     
  13. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Posts:
    140
    Rufus is great software. Thanks, Robin A.
     
  14. Robin A.

    Robin A. Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Posts:
    2,279
    You are welcome.
     
  15. SIW2

    SIW2 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Posts:
    1,572