HDM 12 Suite

By the way, just wanted to mention that I am not here to bash Paragon. In fact, I do not care one way or the other whether Paragon fixes these problems or not. For me it is just a resolution of a loose end from 3 years ago. I am just pointing these issue out for you guys, who use Paragon. If you are happy with it, then by all means continue using it the way it is.

Also, JosephB found a link of a similar problem in Macrium that somebody mentioned on their support forum in Nov 2009. It must have been promptly corrected by Macrium as I did not find the problem when I switched to it in March 2010. Now compare that with my post in Nov 2009 about a similar problem in Paragon, here on its official support forum. Nobody from Paragon gave a damn. The problem is still there 3 years later.

Doesn't this tell you which company cares for its users and which does not? Which deserves your money and which does not?

 

Ref Post #183
I *HAD* to try: Yesterday I deleted the WUA entry (Windows Update Audit) in the registry key HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\BackupRestore\FilesNotToSnapshot (after exporting the key to a .reg file). Today: No problems with the boot. I performed (in Windows normal mode) a partition backup using VSS Hot Processing. Checked the archive: Windows\SoftwareDistribution files were included in the backup. Excellent, so far, no problems at all.

This thread has become a lovely journey. I started my postings with “Shame on you, Paragon”, now my opinion is “Shame on you, Microsoft”. I really do not understand why MS has created these problems to Win7 users (and probably Vista users, but not XP users).

A problem or not a problem, Paragon users have several options:

1] Use the Paragon Hot Processing when you backup (in Windows)
2] Boot from recovery CD, Linux or WinPE, when you are going to back up.
3] Modify the registry key 'FilesNotToSnapshot'
4] Do like skbaltimore (#187), uninstall Paragon from your system, ALWAYS run the app from the recovery CD.

Side note: IMO, skbaltimore's solution is unnecessary dramatic. And, to use PHP, you have to modify your installation of B&R or HDM, you have to include the HardCore driver..[Sorry, skbaltimore, I meant HotCore....]. I previously wrote that I had PHP available without selecting the HardCore option during setup, but that is because I also have installed Paragon Hard Disk Manager. That app installs c:\Windows\System32\drivers\hotcore3.sys as default.

PS: I have not addressed the change of the boot menu (#197). At this stage, the default BCD menu makes perfect sense for me (“the average user” aka John Doe ).

 

Hello,
Microsoft has set a key in registry:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\BackupRestore\FilesNotToBackup
and
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\BackupRestore\FilesNotToSnapshot
In other words there is a list of files that Microsoft considers to be not necessary in backup and thus they are excluded from backup and snapshot. To minimize possible issues with VSS Service we ignore the second key (FilesNotToSnapshot (John Doe has found the answer already as well). It means that when we use Microsoft VSS as hot processing option the exclude list given in the following key will work by default. And the files will not be included neither in snapshot and nor in backup as a result. This is what we cannot fix through backup settings easily.

But we gave a chance to control FilesNotToBackup key list. This is done in order to give a chance for successful restore to smaller drive Paragon picked up these settings also.
In C:\Program Files\Paragon Software\Hard Disk Manager 12 you can find layout.ini file and there find:
Add OS auxiliary files to exclude masks = on
Open the file with notepad.exe and then change this ON to OFF. Save the changes and enjoy backup with all the files inside (note, considered by Microsoft, not Paragon, as auxiliary). Note, even if you set the flag to OFF the page file and hiberfil.sys will be excluded from backup.

Have a nice day.

Paragon Support Team.

 

That might be, but it was based upon the following considerations:

1. I dislike programs that won't uninstall properly, and prefer to not have them on my system to begin with. HDM 11 did NOT uninstall properly. It generated Event Viewer errors because of 3 abandoned UIM drivers, and required a safe boot uninstall with Revo. That is simply unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.

2. As I've already stated, PHP still continued to generate certain Event Viewer errors, even though it did manage to keep the Windows Update history intact. So I decided that cold processing was the way to go instead of hot processing for system image backups. Therefore, since I was going to have to use the recovery disk for system image backups anyway, I figured I might as well lighten up my C drive of a program that does not uninstall properly to begin with, and just run it from the disk for everything.

3. With Raza0007's bootable environment tweak, I've now got the best of both worlds. It's almost as if the program is installed on my HDD; it has all the functionality except it won't save settings, and there's no "Archives" tab. But I can live with both of those limitations. I know that the backups are being done properly, and I've got no Event Viewer errors, and I'll never have to worry about an incomplete uninstall down the road. You can judge it any way you like. I paid for the Paragon program and found a way to use it that makes the most sense to me.

As a side note...I definitely don't see enough changes from 11 to 12 to justify a full upgrade vs an update, even with a discount. I happened to get 12 free because it was within the 30 day grace period. If someone can point out what I'm missing, that's fine. But comparing the two programs, I just can't find anything that stands out.

 

Paragon_MA,


What is your take on the below thread from the Windows Seven Forum (in response to skbaltimore's thread) ?

Can Paragon Backup Pgms be Modified/Enhanced to: "Retain" (under Windows 7) the "Windows Update - RebootWatch Registry Key", as mentiond in the below Thread that other Backup Pgms do ??

... It sounds like that this would allow the "Windows Update History" to be retained after restoring the system partition image of a Windows 7 pc.
... This appears to be the primary "missed" file that many would like to have automatically added (by default) to the Backup and Restored.


http://www.sevenforums.com/backup-r...indowsimagebackup-restored-2.html#post1844460
http://www.sevenforums.com/backup-r...indowsimagebackup-restored-2.html#post1844938

 

My guess is that FSL, at sevenforums.com, primarily is talking about the integrated Windows Backup/Restore system. For my part, I cannot use Windows Backup because it fails to write to my WD My book USB3.0 HDD (confirmed by Western Digital, may be working with Windows 8?).

My experiences is based on Paragon's products:

1] If you uncheck the option 'Skip OS auxiliary files' ( = 'Add OS auxiliary files to exclude masks = off' in Layout.ini), hiberfil.sys and pagefile.sys will be backed up, but NOT the Windows Update History stored in Windows\SoftwareDistribution. There is no need for restoring the two sys-files. (B&R11 seems to have the same option, but the line in Layout.ini reads 'Do not backup temporary files = on/off'.)

2] Removing the WUA entry in the FilesNotToBackup key, does NOT change the Paragon archive, SoftwareDistribution is NOT backed up. I think the registry key is intended for Windows's internal backup system.

3] Removing the WUA entry in the FilesNotToSnapshot key, DOES change the Paragon archive, SoftwareDistribution is now backed up. I do not know whether a permanent remove may have negative consequences in any way; so far I have not encountered any problems.

 

I'm not sure what was on your mind, but I think you meant the HotCore driver, not the HardCore driver. (Although somethimes HardCore and HotCore ARE pretty much the same thing.)

 

As I have said, English is not my native language......

 

John Doe Genius,

So, it sounds like this is a potential soultion. Does the WUA entry remain deleted, after the next Windows Update operation ??
... If so, appears this has potential so to solve it.

Okay, So, it has been determined to be a Microsoft caused issue, but
...... Has anyone with an open support ticket suggested that Paragon Backup Pgms be enhanced to either "automatically" Delete the WUA Entry Key, if it exists, before performing a Backup Image --or-- provide an Option on the GUI to "Back up - Windows Update History" (i.e. Delete WUA Entry Key, if it exists) ??


... skbaltimore, John Doe Genius,

Perhaps you can add the above suggestion to your open support ticket ?

 

I'd be glad to.

UPDATE: I just added the request to my open support ticket.

Another subtlety with regard to the disappearing Windows Update history. While the "installed updates" section has almost all of the updates, it does not record the MSE virus definitions updates, which are made through Windows Update; those are only found in the Windows Update history section. (And MSE itself does not keep a record of the ongoing virus updates; only the current one.)

 

N/P. J/K.

(I was really just clarifying it because of the difference between HardCore and HotCore, is all.)

 

You are creating difficulties for me, skbaltimore!
What does NP stand for? http://www.abbreviations.com/NP
What does JK stand for? http://www.abbreviations.com/JK

I appreciate your humor!

 

N/P = "no problem". J/K = "just kidding".

 

I just cannot understand why is it only paragon that is affected by this problem? Why aren't other backup utilities that are using VSS affected by this? See the post #215 below for a quote from Microsoft. They have made it optional for developers to choose whether they want to exclude certain files from shadow copies or not. They actually do not recommend it. I do not know why paragon has chosen to exclude these files as all they need to do is to set a flag to force VSS to not exclude any file.

I am sure if you use PHP you will get the same boot menu as it was when the backup was created. In all other backup utilities the default behavior is to restore the boot menu as it was when the image was created. One can always choose to restore the default boot menu or a custom boot menu but to force everyone to restore the default boot menu is an exclusive Paragon idea. I am sure it is an oversight on their part.

 

This does not explain why only Paragon is effected by this and the other utilities are not effected. Do they know something you don't.


See this following quote from a post by Microsoft.

They seem to suggest that excluding a file is just an option and show a very easy way of disabling the file exclusions from shadow copies.

 

@JosephB
I have already asked the Support Engineer at Paragon:
Are there any side effects of deleting the WUA entry in the registry? Are Paragon going to address the Windows Update History problem in any way?

Like skbaltimore I shall add a comment to my support ticket as a reminder, due to the involment from the users here at the forum. And I think Raza007's post #215 deserves an answer.

@all
In addition to my conclusions mentioned in #206, I should like to tell you about my latest test. I added PARAGON Test = C:\PerfLogs\*.* /s to the FilesNotToSnapshot key. The result can be seen from the attached image. Are you convinced about how Paragon's products are working?

 

The response I got from Paragon regarding the Windows Update history was to MANUALLY delete the registry entries already discussed in this thread:

"Registry modifying is possible: - Please find the next two keys:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\BackupRestore\FilesNotToBackup

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\BackupRestore\FilesNotToSnapshot

Both of them have parameter named WUA which is Windows Update history. Please delete WUA parameter from both keys so update history will be included in backup when you use VSS."

So they are either unable or unwilling to include this registry alteration automatically in their program; they expect users to do this outside the program.

 

Or you could edit layout.ini per moderator's post.

I wouldn't want WUA, Outlook ?ST, or ephemeral log files to be included in VSS as that would fill it up too quickly/add to backup size unnecessarily and displace file versions I want to have.

 

The layout.ini only controls the files in the "FilesNotToBackup" category. These files are mostly session dependent files, like pagefile and do not need to be backed up as they are renewed anew each session anyway.

The files in the "FilesNotToSnapshot" are three or four files that are not too big, but necessary to restore your computer backup to the state it was in at the time of the backup. Microsoft provides developers easy way to integrate a flag in their backup programs to prevent VSS from excluding any file during the shadow copies creation process. No other backup utility ignores those file except Paragon.
If Paragon wants to exclude them they should give it as a choice for the end user. I believe it is an oversight on their part that they are unable to correct.

 

Unfortunately this is not a solution. It is just a temporary workaround. You would not want to include the files in the "FilesNotToBackup" category anyway as that includes pagefile too.

 

I think Paragon has a problem interfacing with VSS. It is not a big issue, but some developer will have to look at the code and insert the proper VSS related commands in the product. They probably do not consider this to be an issue, or they would have fixed it already.

 

True. And it would seem that Paragon could also do it, and provide the end user with a simple, one button option. Which makes more sense to you -- have the company that makes the product provide the option, or expect the end user to do a work around that could/should have been done by the company to begin with?

 

Rolo42 “.... add to backup size unnecessarily and displace file versions I want to have. “
What do you mean?

Raza007: “The layout.ini only controls the files in the "FilesNotToBackup" category.”
Layout.ini, or 'Add OS auxiliary files to exclude masks = on/off' in HDM12, controls exactly the same as the GUI checkbox option Skip 'OS auxiliary files'; as I have experienced, the option only covers hiberfil.sys and pagefile.sys.

Raza007: “Unfortunately this is not a solution. It is just a temporary workaround.”
If you delete the WUA entry (in FilesNotToSnapshot), why is it “a temporary workaround”?

My comments are solely based on my practical exercises on my own computer (Win7 x64). Just to sumarize my conclusions:

Folders/files found in both Registry keys
%ProgramData%\Microsoft\RAC and %windir%\softwaredistribution
- the files are NOT copied.
Only in FilesNotToSnapshot
C:\Users\Public\Recorded TV\ and %windir%\softwaredistribution\
the files are NOT copied
Only in FilesNotToBackup
%temp% (in my case c:\Users\Compaq\AppData\Local\Temp)
- the files are NOT copied
The files hiberfil.sys and pagefile.sys
Depends on your settings in Paragon app ( auxiliary files)

If you delete %windir%\softwaredistribution in FilesNotToBackup, it has no impact on the result.
If you delete %windir%\softwaredistribution in FilesNotToSnapshot, the files ARE backed-up.

BTW, Windows\Temp is always backed up; the folder is not found in any of the registry keys.

I am still in touch with a Support Engineer at Paragons; he is working with the case, as far as I understand, he will do another posting at the forum. Be patient, remember that Raza007 did not open a support ticket 2-3 years ago.

 

Well, perhaps not a temporary workaround but still a workaround. I would like to see this taken care of automatically by Paragon, like the rest of backup utilities do.

The layout.ini solution was presented by the Paragon moderator and I was just trying to explain that it was not a solution, as enabling that option will backup pagefile etc. You do not want to backup page file.

Also, I think I misunderstood you test with the test file in post 216. So, that might have caused the confusion.

Good. Hopefully you will get this resolved from Paragon soon.

 

Actually Paragon uses Microsoft VSS and tries to minimize the influence on this provider. To reduce the size of the result image it was decided to follow these MS created excludes. And not all Backup software vendors use MS VSS. They write their own VSS providers and thus the excludes from Microsoft can be ignored.

Interesting. I fought personally with our developers because there were sooo many requests demanding that boot menu stays exactly as it was before backup. So finally we did it and now we have users who are unsatisfied? =)
In layout.ini this flag controls the boot menu:
Do not create link for target volume in source bcd after copy/restore = off
You can change it to On (but on your own risk please) if you want the boot menu to be changed.