Has Online Armor Firewall been discontinued?

Discussion in 'other anti-malware software' started by VectorFool, Oct 20, 2014.

  1. Esse

    Esse Registered Member

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    I really like the cloud look-up feature for malware in the product, I would like to use this firewall as my go to firewall even on my (granny's don't know how to handle HIPS popups) PC.
    But, in this case just as a firewall, with the execution control only doing malware check in the cloud and HIPS disabled.
    Could this be a future option Fabian

    /E
     
  2. guest

    guest Guest

    Yes I know, FW and CHIPS software are not meant for derps who is dominating 90% of the planet Earth. And I'm also aware that amongst the rest 10% of the smarter people there are a few who don't bother to use any despite their advanced knowledge. But isn't it too much to use the term "geeks only", making it to sound more restrictive? I could remember that you were using "advanced users" term which is IMO the better selection of words. If however some people are still complaining and asking for refunds just because the product is beyond their knowledge level (which also makes me wonder if they even tried the free version first before purchasing a premium license) while there has been clear descriptions of the product being presented right in front of their faces, well... derps be derps. >_>

    My problems are still the same:
    - It didn't give me as many popups as in 7 and XP. The logger-like behaviour popups are the ones that sometimes didn't appear the most.
    - The learning mode for the firewall didn't note all the programs. Actually I figured out that this issue was the cause that made the domain blocking feature didn't work, a few required components weren't auto added to the firewall's whitelist in the learning mode.

    I have been wanting to say this, but decided to keep it for myself all this long because I didn't want to go through unnecessary debates regarding the free version is being too royal. Although I don't think trimming the available features in the free version would help at all and once again, I blame CIS for this. But I'm glad that we're on the same boat about this at least.
     
  3. VectorFool

    VectorFool Registered Member

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    The one thing I don't like about Online Armor's learning mode is that it trusts everything it sees by default, i.e. it believes that everything on the PC is mint.
    What I think would be a better process is
    OA detecting all running processes and executables on the PC, send the hashes to the server,
    1)check the server for "Whitelisted" and allow them, then show the user the rest
    2)that is the "Unknown Files" user has to take a call whether to allow or not and also to add their hashes or upload the files to the database
    3)"Blacklisted Files" blocked by default, but user can allow them individually at his risk

    Another thing I'd like OA to have is
    Even during normal operations (non learning) when it encounters an unknown file/process and asks the user whether to allow or block it via popup, the user can make the decision of allowing or blocking, and also to send hash/upload the file to the OA database for automatic analysis.
    At a later point of time when the analysis is available from server, user would get the list of Good Bad and Unknown files and then revert his decisions accordingly.

    This way Online Armor database would potentially have much greater growth and hence be more effective.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2014
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    The problem is OA was originally designed as a HIPS, and that isn't they way the worked. Leaving the decision up to the user has proven to be a total failure, which why HIPS can't sell enough to survive. Prevx is a good example. Prevx 2.0 was a classical hips. And they found better than 50% of the people answered questions wrong.

    The guiding principle behind all HIPS programs was the user "knows" his system is clean so the HIPS can learn it. Then it will only alert on new and unknown programs. Uploading to a server for automatic analysis is usually based on other user decisions, so why would that be any good?

    I would bet you will not see any changes in that direction.
     
  5. KeyPer4Life

    KeyPer4Life Registered Member

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    OA with HIPS as mentioned before is designed for the advanced user/security geek. EIS does not contain HIPS
    AFAIK. Learning Mode in OA should not be used for long periods of time.
    If installing new programs that your reasonably sure are clean then putting OA in learning mode would
    probably be a good idea. Once program is installed take OA out of learning mode.
    As far as trusted programs goes not everything is automatically trusted by OA. There are also options for
    untrust, ask, block, allow, runsafer and delete. HIPS isn't for everyone and thats why there are alternatives out there.
     
  6. Cutting_Edgetech

    Cutting_Edgetech Registered Member

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    I have found Online Armor HIPS more user friendly than the Behavior Blocker that EIS uses. The behavior blocker will say an application is exhibiting backdoor like behavior, but does not inform the user exactly what the application did that was considered backdoor like behavior. I found the information given by the BB insufficient to make a decision to allow, or deny the requested action. I also received far less prompts from OA HIPS after it's learning period than I did from the behavior blocker. Online Armor actually rarely ever prompts me for anything. About the only time OA prompts me for any action is when installing, or updating software. I think I have gone all week without OA prompting me for anything. Has there been some recent change to the Behavior Blocker?
     
  7. Fabian Wosar

    Fabian Wosar Developer

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    Which would essentially be a cloud AV ;).

    Problem with advanced users is that everyone thinks of themselves as an advanced user if he knows how to change the desktop wallpaper. It made no difference. We didn't go from "it's for moms and dads" to "it's for geeks" instantaneously. We moved there gradually.

    For the same programs and the same architecture? There are some differences between x86 and x64. But there shouldn't be from Windows XP to Windows 7 for example.

    Which is the default behavior if you have Emsisoft Anti-Malware Network integration enabled.

    Again OA already does that. Though we don't submit files but information about the files. Uploading the files automatically is a blatant breach of user privacy.
     
  8. FOXP2

    FOXP2 Guest

    Having used OA++ and OA Premium for many years, I stopped using it when I observed the exact same not-a-problem problem of the once-hidden-now-visible self-populating "pre-trusted" by the 100's of entries in Domains as reported by this and other users:
    http://support.emsisoft.com/topic/12565-domains-in-v7/
    About half way through page two I concluded "to heck with this" and moved on to another solution.

    Thankfully Domains/Banking Mode/Whatever has been eliminated in the firewall side of EIS and if that's done in the next gen-OA, I'm in if and when. The firewall rules building/config and the HIPS have always been the best there is. Especially for those of us who know what a learning mode is. :)

    (No. I don't want EAM or EIS.)

    Cheers.
     
  9. KeyPer4Life

    KeyPer4Life Registered Member

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    From what I understood the self-populating domains list has been in OA for sometime. It just wasn't visible until
    version 7. Doesn't mean I'm in favor of it and would welcome change. I don't recall however seeing 100's of
    entries when using OA. How the entries get created I'm not exactly sure if it's when in Banking Mode or when
    an update happens or both. I mostly have used Advanced Mode, Standard Mode and Learning Mode when
    needed. So far only one entry has appeared in Domains.
     
  10. Esse

    Esse Registered Member

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    Or Comodo Firewall ;)

    /E
     
  11. guest

    guest Guest

    Previous = Windows 7 32-bit
    Now = Windows 8.1 64-bit

    I do understand that HIPS software can't work at their full potential due to PatchGuard in 64-bit, but at least I don't think logger-like behaviour popups are affected that much, or are they? I can't define which programs got and didn't get the popups, seemingly random. But for certain that they are games which should trigger such popups. And I am sure that they got popups previously.
     
  12. Tarantula

    Tarantula Guest

  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Not really. People wanting it meant new people buying it not current users say they want it to continue. What I said was true, on the other hand I am not surprised at the outcome. There just isn't a general market for a HIPS product.
     
  14. Tarantula

    Tarantula Guest

    Not really?

    Was I right? Yes, I was right. You were wrong. Thinking vs Blind Faith 1:0
     
  15. Fabian Wosar

    Fabian Wosar Developer

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    [sarcasm]I predict every product ever will eventually be discontinued! Ha! I am right! Just wait! My superior intellect will prevail![/sarcasm]

    Edit: Added sarcasm tags so people get the point.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  16. ichito

    ichito Registered Member

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    Do you realy think it's funny? Do you realy think you are right and your intellect is realy "superior"?...no comments
     
  17. Tarantula

    Tarantula Guest

    You promised to keep OA alive. You lied.
    http://forum.worldstart.com/archive/index.php/t-148418.html
    End of story!

    P.S. Your jokes are not even funny.
     
  18. Fabian Wosar

    Fabian Wosar Developer

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    Neither are people that feel the urge to come back to threads almost 6 months old just to say they were right because unlike someone else they were "thinking" and rub it in. Making a prediction that a product will die is not hard. They all will eventually. You will always be right. Your point though was that the OA acquisition was identical to the way the ThreatFire acquisition was handled. But you couldn't be further from the truth. How many new major releases and improvements were released to ThreatFire after the acquisition and how many were added to Online Armor? We added x64 support, added support for entirely new platforms (Windows 7, 8, 8.1), we added entirely new major program components like the File and Registry Shield, we completely replaced the backend systems, added a Cloud AV and tons of other stuff in the past 5 years. Even implying that discontinuing OA was our plan all along is borderline insulting.

    Products do die, whether they are acquired or were complete in-house developments doesn't matter (look at Mamutu for example). That's just the way it is. Your point that it died because it was an acquisition though and especially your comparison to ThreatFire was and is completely wrong.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  19. Nizarawi

    Nizarawi Registered Member

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  20. Solarlynx

    Solarlynx Registered Member

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    Thank you to Emsisoft for keeping OA so long. And good by to OA.
     
  21. blacknight

    blacknight Registered Member

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  22. FleischmannTV

    FleischmannTV Registered Member

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    It wasn't killed by marketing, it was killed by lack of demand. If you want to argue that the lack of marketing was the cause for the lack of demand, then that may be true. Yet marketing a HIPS to the average home user, for whom it is clearly unsuited, would be plain and simple misdirection and honesty in that matter is something that, in my opinion, we cannot reproach Emsisoft for. If anything, you should say it was killed by honest marketing.
     
  23. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Actually it was lack of users capable of using it. As a result the refund percentage that was huge. I can tell you this Blacknight, when ever I throw malware at my system, before I can test any other program, I have to turn off EIS, or it blocks the malware.

    Pete
     
  24. Nightwalker

    Nightwalker Registered Member

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    Users who know how to make correct decisions with HIPS/Firewall doesnt need one to begin, they are most "toys" to geeks and security specialists play around. (most wilders users doesnt get it)
    That isnt a surprise to see that many HIPS/Firewall products were discontinued along the time, modern antivirus (behavior blocker + cloud reputation + traditional signatures/heuristics) are the way to go for most users.

    Emsisoft as a company is doing the right thing and they are generous (conscious) enough to provide free upgrade to its internet security.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  25. emsisoft

    emsisoft Security Expert

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    Let me share some insights here: As much as I'd love to continue Online Armor, it just doesn't make sense financially. With the release of Emsisoft Internet Security last year, the Online Armor sales dropped by 90%. That's not because our marketing team didn't focus on it anymore, that's because the successor product is just much better in serving our customers' needs. During the last months, the income made with Online Armor couldn't even pay for a single developer's wages. I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but truth is that we can't afford developing and maintaining a piece of software just for a couple of 'geeks', while making a continuous loss.

    Time goes on and as Fabian already said, each product has to die sooner or later when its market vanishes. Online Armor had it's time and it served us well back in the days. Try to see it positive: It's sort of re-incarnated in Emsisoft Internet Security and parts of its code will most likely live on for quite some more time.
     
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