Going to have a shot at self-assembly...

That's why I like this place. The maturity of the members here is unparalleled compared to a lot of other sites I am a member of.

Longevity is a good thing. I know myself that my upgrades are far less frequent these days because things are just not moving at the pace they once did. That's when you spend money on little things like ball bearing cooling fans instead of the cheap sleeve fans. Or the extra few dollars for the hard drive with the 5 year warranty instead of 1 or 3. The price difference there is usually about $5 or so.

I guess its up to philby to tell us if he is going to get the aftermarket cooler. If he does we can start discussing thermal paste.

 

I cannot agree enough with that statement!

I simply love to share things like that, and to gain others insights.

Sul.

 

@ philby - The contact point, or thermal interface, between the cpu is absolutely 100% vital. The more solid the contact, the more heat is removed. So, for instance, if the contact faces were pitted, you would have air gaps instead of a solid mating surface which reduces cooling efficiency via the heatsink/fan. I personally think stock cooling is more than adequate for normal day-to-day use without overclocks. The only problem with stock coolers is that they tend to interface using a thermal patch which can sometimes reduce efficiency due to these air gaps. Much better to clean the surfaces on both the cooler and cpu with something like 'arctic cleaner liquids' and use a small blob of thermal paste on thermal interface as stated earlier.

Another important factor in cooling is the quality of the case. The airflow and chassis material both being major factors. The Corsair Obsidion appears to be a good choice although I have not used. I think (from memory) that this case has routing points for the cables.

The PSU with a fan will also help to extract heat from inside the case improving lifespan of all components. A good quality branded model from a reputable manufacturer such as Corsair, Antec, Enermax and others is crucial in my opinion. A poor quality PSU is cheap, but can have erratic outputs that can stress expensive components. If a PSU fails it can take mobo, cpu, gpu with it at great expense. Here is a link to a PSU power calculator to help guide you with the wattage. I always add a little bit for both upgrades and the fact the PSUs gradually lose efficiency over their lifetime. A modular PSU will help you keep things tidy regarding your concerns with cable ties and can also assist with airflow.

Re antistatic. Years ago, I used to work for a multinational manufacturer and we literally plugged ourselves, via wriststrap into the electric socket on the wall to maintain a good ground/earth. What I tend to do now, is plug the PSU (once installed in the case) into the wall socket (with the switch off). This creates a ground away from the chassis (case). So, when I'm working on the mobo and installing components, all I need do is keep in constant contact with metal of the case to keep myself grounded so there will be no risk of static discharge.

And finally, building a system, upgrading, tweeking etc is really easy if your methodical in your procedures. Just beware that it could become a lifestyle...

Good luck!!

 

Absolutely! I'm already seeing different chassis fan configurations drift by in my sleep...

Thanks again everyone for all the further discussion - I'm learning all the time.

I've half-decided now on a few components, allowing for possible upgradability:

Modular Corsair AX650 or 750 PSU
Lian Li PC-9F case (no fan modding or additionals)
Asrock Extreme 4 Gen 3 or Asus P8Z68-V Pro board
I5 2500 - probably K as I know at some point I'll want to tinker with OC and also because the IGP is the better (?) HD 3000 (maybe 2000 v 3000 is a non-issue though?)
Discrete GPU not necessary (for the time being)
Stock cooler until that OC tinkering moment comes...
Cheap and cheerful optical drives from Liteon
SSD + WD Caviar / Samsung F3 drives or better?

The case is the point where I'm having some trouble. Of course, there is no perfect chassis...

I'm limited to a midi, don't want mesh without filters (intakes), don't want flashing lights, don't want a pointless firewire port, would like USB3 to connect properly to the board, don't have a yearn for plastic etc. etc. etc. I looked at the Corsair 500r - but it has some of the above drawbacks. The Silverstone FT02 looks excellent, but is too big - it's little brother has issues with removability of dust filters....and so on.

The LL case is pretty basic but well-considered on some forum discussions I managed to unearth and I should be able to get a simple adaptor for the USB3 board header. It looks very builder-friendly and has room enough for the minimal expansion I'll be doing. It also comes with a board speaker which will no doubt be very useful for a doughnut like me!!

But then there's always the Fractal R3 and the mentioned Obsidian...

RAMwise, I was wondering about 'low profile' to avoid clearance issues when fitting an aftermarket heatsink in the future...but then that's more reading for this week, I think...

Do low profile modules heat up too much? Are the heat-spreaders on the regular Vengeance just a gimmick? How about Mushkin? Etc. etc.........

Incidentally, if it helps any other budding builders, I found some other useful videos from Newegg - 3 parts with part 1 here (couldn't create hyperlink):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPIXAtNGGCw

philby

PS Are we all agreed on cleaning away the TP from the stock cooler and adding own? MX2, MX3 or MX4... ??

 

Corsair PSU are nice. They are made by Channel Well or Seasonic. I opted to go with a Seasonic X850 mainly due to haveing ability for SLI if I ever want to go that route. I also chose seasonic because they are the maker rather than rebrand seller. But corsair gives you 2 more years warranty if that matters.

I love Lian Li cases. I just bought a z60, and it was rather expensive. I have one from prior built, and it is very nice and less expensive, but not quite enough room for me. The new ones are not as good IMO in terms of construction. Should be expected in this economy I suppose, but still I was disappointed. But, although comparing new to old construction it seems not as good, it is still going to be a sweet build. Fan configs are what I wanted, and PSU is on bottom and 140mm fan on top. Since I bought my first Lian Li, I have not desired to buy a different brand, it is just that much different, at least to me.

I bought 16gb corsair xms3 or something like that. I though about the vengeance, but did not want those super tall heatsinks. I bought a Thermalright MUX120 heatsink, to get to use 2 120mm fans in a push/pull config. I did this to get the airflow over the mch/ram. I have read that many of those ram heatsinks do interfere with cpu heatsinks, but it depends on hardware.

My last Lian Li case totally changed the way I configure my fans. I tried all combination, and found that bringing in air from the back kept my temps lowest, and exhausting air out the top. Once you get your stuff setup, run a tool that takes temps up to a setpoint, then start messing with fan configurations. You really will be suprised how much different things are with different configs.

Sul.

 

That is weird - I've just spent a while looking at the z60 this afternoon!

I've read elsewhere about build quality not being so good anymore, but how are you liking it?

Three quick questions, if I may:

1.Do the left/right/top grills/meshes have air filters? If not, does that matter to you?
Shouldn't that top intake have a filter, at least? I don't understand why some intake fans aren't fitted with filters...though I suppose if I switched that top fan to exhaust like you, then it wouldn't matter so much - but then the rear would have to be switched to intake without a filter!

2.Does the front USB3 I/O have a header plug or do you need an adaptor?

3.Is it easy to switch any particular case fan from intake to exhaust - do you just unscrew mounts and flip the unit around, so the blades face the other way? Probably very simple, I know, but I don't want to mess anything up

Also, re. Seasonic, I can get the x850 for UK sterling 169 here, only slightly more than the Corsair ax850, so maybe that's the way to go - I see what you're saying about them being the maker.

The xms RAM might also be the way to go - I don't care what it looks like and agree about the in-your-face heatsinks...

You mean like Prime95?

For temp. readings, do you use Coretemps, or another utility? Are BIOS readings any good for this - or does that only work if you're using a fan controller...?

Hope you don't mind this shower of interrogatives...

philby

 

I don't mind answering at all, as I would have loved that opportunity myself.

First, compared to older cases, it is not as "beefy", but that doesn't mean not good. I paid 229 for it in US, and this makes it by far the most expensive case I have ever had. But, I like a lot about it. I researched cases for about 2 months, and did look at some other than LianLi, but in the end decided to go with the z60.

Now, as to the z60.

The case comes with a usb adapter for the front usb3 ports. It is a little larger than I would want, but of high quality. It allows you to use the usb3 ports on the case as usb2.

For fans, you have 1 40mm on top. My experience with LianLi fans is that they are of good quality, but sacrifice air flow for quietness. I purchased a 140mm fan to replace it, of the pwm flavor. The top of the case has a metal grill, very nice. the bottom of the 140mm fan has no grill or filter, and the mobo mounts very near the top, so purchase a metal/mesh grill to keep cords out of it, I am.

The rear fan is 120mm, and has a metal guard on either side. It is screwed to the case, but does have rubber grommets for vibration, easy to remove as you would expect a screwed on fan to be.

The side fans, 2 x 120mm, do come with filters that are unique, they can be removed by twisting them. They are a plastic fine mesh with plastic frame. I like them well enough I am looking for one or two more.

The cage that both fans sit in can be moved to either side, and there are mesh vents on either case side cover to effect this choise.

The bottom of the case has a louver for air to reach the PSU, and there is another filter on the underside of the case. The filter comes off very easily.

The fans on the side, in the cage, snap into place because of some rubber grommets. It works very well. The card slots have a latching mechanism that is the best I have seen. The optical bays also have a very nice latching device, so you can go screwless if youwant, but there are spots for screws if needed.

The PSU has a locking mechanism, that actually is very tight. I don't know if it is too tight or not, but it does make a firm lock. I will be screwing my PSU in as well as locking it. The PSU sits on two small rails with a rubber liner, so the PSU is about 3/8 inch off the bottom of the case. I like that and was worried it would sit right on the bottom. It is also possible to make the PSU fan face up or down, and the screw holes exist for either configuration.

All of the fans are 3pin, but include a 4pin molex adapter. I bought some 120mm coolermaster PWM fans to replace them. I am using PWM on all fans.

The case, while not as beefy as my older ones, is very solid once everything is in place. The best parts IMO are the front loading drive bays for the HDDs and the amount of space. It is a little larger than I wanted, but definately not too large.

You can buy cheaper cases, even cheaper LianLi cases. I would maybe buy a different one knowing what I know now, just on principle of older being better. But, after putting in all my stuff, I really like they layout, the room, and the options it gives that most other cases don't

I am out of town, but ask more and I will get back as I can. May as well get all the details you can since you have the opportunity.

Oh, I am going to buy a 120mm filter of some kind for the back fan if I use it to bring air into the case.

I don't know about the sandybridge, but for core2duo I used a program by intel called TAT or thermal anylsis tool. It allows you to set a % of each core to run. So, you set each core to say %50, let the temps stabilize, record it. Then switch fans around and start again @ 50%, you will see the temp changes because the processor will be the same, and the temp differences will be the things that change.

Sul.

 

I've also used Lian LI and always been impressed by build quality. Just had a quick look at z60 and I think I noticed no filter for the bottom PSU air intake which could cause you dust problems in future. I prefer PSU with a bottom fan intake and rear exhaust for good cooling for PSU and reducing average internal case temps. Drawing dust into the psu and case is not ideal. Also the z60 is a lot of dough (although overall is a very nice case and you could make a filter up). Take a look at CoolerMaster cases too, equally good build but tend to be cheaper than LianLi (and Corsair). I've used all three manufacturers and always been satisfied. I agree with sully, lianli cases tend to run a little warmer but are quieter. Better for home theatre I guess. On the fan configurations for the case, my personal preference is to have cool air coming in at the bottom/bottom front and exhausting at the top/top rear. There are also plenty of theories about positive or negative case pressure effecting the temps and I have found these to be a factor through hours of testing and comparisons. However, all chassis and commonent is different on every individual system meaning that there is no difinitive correct setup. Just trial and error and checking temps each time while under load etc.

Oh, your questions. All intake fans should have filters. Dust causes heat problems and in extreme instances (rare) can cause a short circuit.
You are correct, you just flip the fan round to change airflow direction (there is a little arrow on the side of the fan that indicates direction).

Choose the ram modules after making a firm decision on mobo as sometimes a mobo prefers different module configurations. For RAM manufacturers I nearly always go for Corsair on a high-end rig and GSkill on lower-end although there are other good manufacturers that I also use. Another reason for choosing ram after mobo is that some mobos will only run ram at JEDEC voltage/timing specs. JEDEC is like the industry standard. The XMS or Kingston HyperX and other higher end modules tend to require slightly higher voltages and can operate at tighter timings to improve speed/performance.

On RAM cooling. If the airflow running over the top of the ram is good (ie cool air passing from front bottom to top rear) you should not need another fan for RAM unless you overclock.

I use coretemp to monitor temps constantly. I also monitor gpu temps. Means unlikely to get component failure if fan stops working. When I build a rig I stress test burn-in with prime95 on each cpu core simultaneously or orthos or occt software. Furmark tests gpu/cpu. ATITool & Rivatuner for gpu only (they also monitor temps). Memtest will check memory from command prompt preboot. With exception of memtest always monitor temps when using this software and switch off immediately if temps going too high over spec limits. Then check cooling fans plugged in properly, heatsink attached properly. Doing proper burn-ins will also help find if any component has a fault while on warranty! (Faulty components are rare but does happen)

Oh the only way to monitor temps accurately is with a sensor probe on cpu attached to front display which you install in empty drive bay on front of case so you have digital readout and warning. Looks nice too. Software temp monitoring programs are never accurate but give a reasonable estimate

 

Once you do it the first time you will be able to do it one handed and with your eyes covered! Guaranteed.

Plugging all the hardware together is pretty fool proof IMO

 

Quite right. Like learning to ride a bike (not recommended with your eyes covered while on the road though)

I probably make it sound complicated 'cause I'm a geek!! And proud of it!!

 

@ Philby

Hi, nice to hear you're taking the plunge at last I think you'll find it'll go a lot smoother than you initially envisaged. Good to see you're not rushing in off the deep end, & instead getting aquainted with the bits"n"bobs first, it'll be worth it.

Hope it all works Extremely well for you

By the way, we don't see you posting much these days

 

hi, i to have always wanted to build my first machine, one of my main concerns has been installing power supply and connecting to components, any advise? thank you,

 

There is a filter on the bottom of the case, external. It slides out for easy cleaning.

That is how I see it as well.

I like to have filters, but if you clean your case out with a can of compressed air it works very well, providing you don't wait too long. Filters can be quite a pain depending on how much dust you have.

I had a lian li fan controller, bay device. It used probes. Not really that great, the probes. They don't sense a true temperature. I examined bios temps and found the offset to use with probes. Eventually I got rid of that.

I used to use rivatuner and speedfan to control all fans. I used a plugin for riva which would show my temps and speeds in a fullscreen game window. When I started using win7, I now use gadgets to view gpu and cpu infos. I control the fans in bios now, of both mobo and gpu, so the only software I have running is to show what is happening,not to control it.

As an idea for you, I think what I am going to do on more thinking, is to replace the back pci brackets on the z60 with solid ones that are not vented. I am going to block one side of the case cooling grill, the side that the fans are not on. I am then going to ditch the fan filters on the 2x120mm fans and instead utilize the grill holes on the side of the case, to attach a filter I will create myself out of some mesh of some type. The filters on the fans are great, and I will utilize them on the PSU intake and rear 120mm intake (if I use it as an intake), but for the two on the lower front side, there is still the grill on the side of the case, and I am sure that not all of the dust will be captured on the fans, but rather leak around them and get into the case. I figure if I limit the places where air can enter the case and put a filter of some type on them, that will give me both less dust and also all external filters so I don't have to crack open the case to clean them.

It is one instance where having an aluminum case is a disadvantage as you can get filters that attach magnetically, which would be really handy.

Oh, and the only reason a lian li case would be a little warmer is if you use the fans that came with it. I actually have always like that lian li puts thought into how a case needs to be cooled. With better fans, mine have always been very cool. But then, I also have fans that move at least 75cfm if possible, and they can get loud, but that is why I have fan control. A good cpu cooler all by itself means my system fans don't need to come on except at full load, as they normally idle around %30, which is not audible. This is why I like PWM, because I can go down so low.

Sul.

 

And a little more on air cooling for you to think about. Here is an article about airflow and here is a video released by Silverstone engineers for one of their Fortress cases on negative v positive pressures inside the case (which also effects dust).

BTW, forgot to mention, I would go for the ASUS mobo. Asus consistently manufacture high quality boards, have excellent overclockability and good reputation.

 

Right then: CPU (I5 2500k) and PSU (Corsair AX850 was £45 cheaper than the Seasonic X850...) now on order.

Still thinking about best case scenario... Thanks Sully for all that extra information on the Z60, which is what I think I'll go with.

I've read a lot about positive v negative pressure (thanks cozumel) and intend to try leaving the case as it comes:

Front: 2 x 120 = intake (filtered)
Rear: 1 x 120 = exhaust
Top: 1 x 140 = intake (filtered with this, which I hope will fit) I don't understand why LL don't supply a filter with a top intake!

Without going into any exotic mathematics, that should mean there'll be positive pressure inside the case and good airflow over the board, is that right?
Also, maybe swapping the top fan out for a slimmer fan will help with the board clearance point that Sully flagged. Can you get those?

Really dumb question about adding the top fan intake filter: Presumably, the filter would normally be added under the grill and on the top of the fan. Would I then need to add another filter or guard under the fan? I only ask because of your comment about there not being anything under the fan to prevent cords from contacting it. So, top down it would be: grill > filter > fan > filter/guard?

.................................................................................................

I understand the point about selecting the board before the RAM: I'm still thinking about the Asrock/Asus boards - there's only £15 difference between them, plus some stuff about PCI-E 3 - and will make sure I check memory compatibility before buying. RAM timings - now there's a subject...

Thanks again chaps for all the really useful info

 

Great CPU and PSU. I yake it you chose that CPU for overclocking right? The Z60 will limit you on aftermarket coolers when you start overclocking the CPU (due to lack of space) but I believe you are alluded to being restricted to max mid-tower. So whilst the Z60 mmay restrict for some of the more monstrous coolers their many alternative solution that would work and LianLi are quality. So all good there!

You are correct, that would create positive (higher) pressure in the case which leaves nature to do the rest to equalize the pressure. However, it is trial and error on the configuration that gives best airflow & cooling.

You can get slim fans like this. Also, maybe having PWM fans (as sully suggested I think) assists with the trial and error bit.

I am concerned about the mobo. You are buying a top notch CPU that is unlocked by Intel for all the overclockers. Whilst ASRock would be okay for stock machine, you really need to spend the extra premium on a mainboard. ASUS make the best overclockers even if they are not my personal 1st choice. They do sometimes have bad BIOS but easily resolved be rolling bios back or forward so not really big issues. Gigabyte are also good overclockers, but not as good as ASUS. Gigabyte tend to be more stable. I strongly recommend checking out user feedback on ASRock, ASUS, Gigabyte and other boards on specialist forums such as HardwareHeaven, AnAndTech, HardForum etc before making final choice. You don't want to be having to replace the mainboard further down the line just to utlize the full capability of the CPU.

As for RAM timings, setting those up for optimum speeds can take many, many hours...It's the stability testing for each setting that takes all the time. There is a really good article on setting up the timings (and overclocking in general) somewhere on another site which I can try and relocate for you if you want. It's a whole lot of reading (almost a book) but was done by a RAM guru dude!!! At the beginning, for your initial build, I would suggest just using the stock RAM manufacturer SPD timings and voltages.

Edit: Buying extras like different fans, extra RAM (when 4 gig may well suffice at the very beginning) and large hdds may all need to be sacrificed at the beginning, depending on your budget. As long as you have a good core base to work from (chassis, mobo, psu and cpu), everything else can be upgraded at later dates.

 

Thanks for that cozumel

Regarding that slim 12mm Scythe 120mm fan you linked - the Z60 top fan fixture is for 140mm fans - can 120mm fans be fitted in a 140mm space?

Regarding the Asrock - I'm not sure I understand what the potential limitations of the Extreme4 Gen 3 are in terms of (future) overclocking, as compared to the P8Z68-V Pro...? The Asrock specs are here. I've searched around and found forums where people seem to be getting a lot out of the CPU - but maybe I'm not understanding you correctly...

As for the RAM timings, I think you're right - that's something to figure out later; the XMS I was looking at is 9-9-9-24 at 1333MHz - any good? I gather from reading that I should head for 1.5V and look for a first digit of 8 or lower in the timings...but all the 8s seem to be 1.65V....??

philby

 

Best bang for the buck i would say it's like the AMD 1100T Black Edition

 

They did not supply a top intake filter because it is intended to be an exhaust. They should have supplied a grill guard tho IMO. It is the back 120mm fan that is puzzling to me. It is meant as an intake, yet that has no filter. It is the one place, other than PSU place, that would benefit from filtering. The side fans at least have the case with small holes to block/catch some dust.

The top fan is a typical lian li, meaning quiet and only moderate air flow. I love top fans because that is where the heat naturally rises to, and they are the most effective fans in the case IMO. The fan I think is a 25mm fan,maybe 30mm, typical I suppose. My board, the Intel DP67BGB3 barely fits with that stock fan in place. I have a most 1/4 inch clearance to the board. I won't know until tuesday if the heatsink will fit, but from looking at my current setup, which is very similar, it should be about 1/4 from the edge of the board, making it roughly 1/2 inch from the 140mm fan, which is fine. I will put a grill guard on that 140mm fan, but don't know about a filter as I plan on keeping it as an exhaust fan. I am only worried about a wire/cable coming in contact with it. I normally get really anal about cable management - everything is taped/wrapped/zip-tied and hidden if possible. But still, it bugs me so I will do something for it.

As I just mentioned, the filter is probably only needed if using the top fan as an intake. The grill on the top will catch dust if it is as good as my other lian li grills. Not all dust, but much of it. It would look like this
top of case grill > fan > guard

When looking at fan, you will notice air always flows over the solid face of the fan, not the hollow part on the opposite side. This is because you do not want dust going into the hollow area, as the bearings and windings live in there and won't tolerate dust. The fan is positioned how lian li presumed the airflow should follow, which is in the back and out the top. Makes sense, but yet to see what really happens.

I have given this a good deal of thought this weekend while out of town and anticipating the arrival of final parts. I am going to buy a nibbler and cut a hole in the side of the case that faces the pci slots. I am going to position a fan to blow directly on my video card. I will put an external filter over this fan, which might be a 140mm, but at least a 120mm fan. On this same case side I am going to cover the vents where the 2x120mm fans would have gone. I will then place the 2 x 120mm fans on the opposite side of the case. My idea is, like my current case, to develop 2 distinct air patterns.

One airflow comes in the back, across the cpu cooler, across the ram, then up and out the top.

The other airflow comes in by the video card, which helps keep that cool, and then towards the front of the case and out the side, hopefully cooling the hdds on the way. I may have to loosen up a portion of the side vent if the hdds don't cool as well as I want.

In your case, with no discrete graphics card, you might do something similar, just not covering the side vents and maybe testing which side to put the 2x120mm fans on. You also might find something different with back/top fan directions, but I will bet you that it keeps cpu and ram coolest to bring air in from back and out the top.

From what I read, unless your board is very specific about other voltages, get 1.5 volt. I read lots of issues with 1.65 or 1.35 on boards that were not really designed to use it. No experience, just what I read.

I think you will like the case, especially if you have never had a lian li before. You won't know how other lian li were made, and you will be amazed at the weight (or lack thereof), and the precision fits and no sharp edges.

When you are looking for fans, you probably buy from someplace different than I do, but I buy from a place called performance-pcs. You might at least find brands and part #s there to lookup at your fave store.

Sul.

 

Depends on the case. Sometimes they have multiple mounting holes for different size fans. Otherwise you would need to drill 4 new holes.

You misunderstood. I am not saying that the board has limitations with regard to potential overclocks or stability whilst overclocked. I'm just saying there is a reason why a vast number of enthusiasts go for Asus/Gigabyte for overclocking. It's about historically proven track record and a great BIOS for overclocks (especially ASUS boards re BIOS). The ASRock may well be a mighty fine board. If the ASRock had been available for 9 months and had proven stability and overclocks over a period of time I would feel more comfortable. ASRock may have created a diamond with this board for all I know....

If the motherboard has a good overclocking BIOS, you can install the modules and the BIOS will set the SPD so she boots. Once booted, you just go into the BIOS and change the voltage / timings to those stated by the RAM manufacturer. The voltage thing doesn't really matter unless you have a mobo that won't boot unless you use JEDEC spec RAM first to set the BIOS voltage which is problematic as many of the better RAM modules operate above the JEDEC specs.

 

The vents on the side of the case measure approx 245mm tall x 100mm wide. You could use a drillbit to widen some target holes to accept a fan screw. This is what I have done on other lian li builds. This should net you 3 80mm fans on the side of the case if you so desired. It would be a very close fit, but doable. You could get some filters that have a detachable screen, and have 3 x 80mm fans on the side, each side if you so choose.

That is a bit narrow for a 120mm fan to be mounted directly to the side. You would lose roughly 15mm on either side if you attached 120mm fans, but you could get 2 of them attached directly to the side. I only mention this because if you used them as intakes, you could easily filter them externally and not have to open the case to do so.

Alternately, you could keep 2x120mm fans in the cage on the mobo side of the case, and 2x120mm or 2-3 x 80mm attached to the other side of the case. Lots of options I suppose.

The top fan on the z60 case is only for 140mm. I don't see how you will get it to 120mm without an adapter, and that would push it down into the mobo area too much IMO.

I really like cases without perforated vents all over, only where the fans go. It is my belief that cases with mesh all over do not cool as well as cases that don't breath other than where the fans are. It depends a lot on how you want your fans configured. If all your fans exhaust, then you need that mesh/venting. Thats just what I have found though.

Sul.

 

cozumel: I understand what you mean now!
Sully: A lot of options there...!

Thanks both for such detailed answers.

Just to complicate matters, there's the PC-9F too - spec here and brief user reviews here... This looks good and is nearly half the price, though the HDD cage looks like it is oriented differently - such that the sata/power cables might be hard to connect?

philby

 

OMG the ASRock does look like a mighty fine piece of kit. I'm glad I'm not in the market for a couple of months (putting the money aside currently) as I can wait to see whether feedback remains positive. Or maybe other manufacturers will catch up with or surpass ASRock by then lol. I commend your research - I've only just caught up with you ha

On case choice - is a hard one. Let me complicate it further for you. The Corsair Obsidian 650D looks like a lovely mid-tower and here and here are a couple of reviews. Also the CoolerMaster Silencio 550 looks like a quality case at a great price. I could go through loads more too but don't want leave you all

 

@philby

If you are still deciding on cases, let me give some more feedback on the z60.

I isntalled my PSU, by screwing it into the back and using the clamp system. Once this was done, the mobo wall and the case in general became quite stiff. I don't know if this was planned or not, but I am quite happy with that result. Once I screwed the PSU to the case, the clamp does very mildly bend the side of the PSU during clamping, but once it is seated completely, doesn't appear to affect the PSU wall at all.

I found that there is ample room for all my cables. The areas to manage the cables are large and well placed. I will be using some molex Y's for the hdds, as my PSU cables are quite long, and I want to have them tucked out of the way. That is fault of the generous length of the PSU cables tho, not the case.

On more examination, I believe I will bring air in the back side of the case via the 120mm fan. I will block off one side of the case side vents, and leave the other open, with the 2x120mm fans blowing OUT. So, I will have 1x140mm blowing OUT, and 2x120mm blowing OUT. This leaves the rear 120mm blowing IN, and I am hoping the bottom PSU vent will allow the air IN sufficeintly. I do this because the bottom vent is actually vented, not just ported. Meaning, it has tiny louvers that are supposed to direct the air flow. This bottom vent is positioned halfway between the PSU and the rest of the case, so that the PSU can get air from it, and the case in general can also get air from it. I don't know it this will work the way I want, but it does develop positive pressure in the case, and all I need to do is put one of the 120mm filters from the side on the rear 120mm fan. Then all inbound airflows will have a nice filter.

After attaching the front panel cables, they are top notch. The usb2 to usb3 converter is quite flexible. The cables are all extra long. As I found out with this, you need the extra to use with a bottom mount PSU. There are slots on the bottom of the mobo backwall, which the speaker/mic cable from the front panel can be routed through. It easily reaches the lower back of the mobo. All the front panel cables are more than sufficient. That is a plus.

The only real negative I have to say about this case is that the bays for SSD size drives is not using the fancy power/sata plugin boards like the standard 3.5" bays are. They make an adapter for this purpose, which I will buy at some point, but I really think they should have included it with it, as SSD drives are probably going to be purchases with a large number of new builds.

My CPU heatsink measures 160mm tall, which gives me ample room between it and the top 140mm fan, probably about 1/2 - 3/4 inch. I haven't looked at other heatsinks, but mine will fit, I am sure many others will as well if you go that route.

If you can hang tight for the rest of this week, I will let you know in the next few days how it all fits together and what I find.

If you are looking for a good case, this is one of my favorites and on clearance too. A bit small now, but it has been my best cooled case to date.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=103_104&products_id=4248
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...=product_info&cPath=103_104&products_id=20308

I have the silver with window right now, and have modified it a little bit. I love that case, but just not quite big enough for what I want to do long term. I would give it 5 stars for anyone looking for a great case, no problem.

Just some for FYI.

Sul.

 

Truly, I love this case!

After spending the evening installing everything, I am just amazed at how much better it is in the cable management and spacious departments than my previous Lian Li. If you get this case, take the top off when you install, it makes it so very easy.

I should finish with 90% of my build tommorrow night. If you can hang tight till the day after that, I will post some pics of the case so you can get an idea. If you can't, well, I understand, or maybe you decided on something else.

Either way, I now feel I spent my money well instead of the feeling that I over-paid.

Sul.