German security firm Avira has been acquired by Investcorp at a $180M valuation

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by mood, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. mood

    mood Updates Team

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    German security firm Avira has been acquired by Investcorp at a $180M valuation
    April 8, 2020
    https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/08/g...n-acquired-by-investcorp-at-a-180m-valuation/
    Avira: Avira finalizes acquisition agreement with Investcorp Technology Partners
     
  2. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

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    Sort of shows how the commercial antivirus market is dwindling because of lack of money. $180 million is a lot of money for individuals, but it's nothing for a merger. Avira was in desperate need for cash. With the corona virus crisis which will inevitably create a devastating worldwide recession a lot of companies will be scrambling to remain viable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  3. marcuskng

    marcuskng AV Expert

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    We are doing better than ever actually. Your assessment couldn't be further off the real situation. No sane investor would bet their money on a dwindling business. Besides the general trend, Covid19 is actually having a quite positive effect on the security business.
     
  4. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

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    It wasn't meant to be derogatory, and I really hope Avira will remain successful (I have been a customer for more than 12 years). My comment about covid19 is about the future, a global recession is inevitable and everyone will suffer.
     
  5. anon

    anon Registered Member

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  6. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

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  7. Spartan

    Spartan Registered Member

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    Post of the day! That me LOL! Thanks dude. :D
     
  8. anon

    anon Registered Member

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    The issue is the acquisition or the various AV performance?
     
  9. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

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    I don't think they are worth that much compared to Avira if you ask me, but then again I have no idea how potential investors see antivirus companies in terms of revenue. As of AV performance you'll have to agree with me that Avira is one of the best in terms of detection...
     
  10. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    IMO company is worth much more, comparing to other acqusitions. Just by looking at number of users, numbers don't add up.
     
  11. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    While that is fine, the valuation at which Avira has been acquired invites a lot of questions simply because Avira has been a technology leader and the other technology leader companies have all had better valuations.
     
  12. imdb

    imdb Registered Member

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    ditto.
     
  13. bigwrench9

    bigwrench9 Registered Member

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    Ditto, as well.
     
  14. Hiltihome

    Hiltihome Registered Member

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    Cui bono?
     
  15. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    USA still the best. But getting worse!
    I wonder if there's a couple billion dollars of Avira debt to assume. Otherwise I too think Avira priced itself way too low. I would've thought 900 million & up.
     
  16. popescu

    popescu Registered Member

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    In fact the company may be over evaluated.

    Avira is no longer what it used to be; see an user opinion here:

    "Today, Avira installed without my permission:
    - Avira Security
    - Avira Phantom VPN
    - Avira Software Updater
    - Avira System Speedup ( which is probably snake oil registry cleaner per:
    https://blog.malwarebytes.com/cybercrime/2015/06/digital-snake-oil/
    https://decentsecurity.com/registry-cleaners
    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/373006/registry-cleaners/ )

    Is Avira becoming malicious software?
    I know it's became bloaty software, but now this again?"

    Who needs all these , when Win 10 offers free "Defender" with around 100% detection rate in last 24 months on AV Test / AV Comparatives.


    Was a smart move to get out of the market , as the days of a paid antivirus are numbered.
     
  17. bellgamin

    bellgamin Very Frequent Poster

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    Not so. Nothing is truly free if it requires labor to produce and maintain it. The price may be concealed within the cost of an Operating System or hidden within taxes or whatever. However, if labor is required to make a product available, then those who do the labor must have income to live, and that income must come from somewhere. Even if the work is automated, labor is required to produce & maintain the automation.

    Of course, all hackers may somehow "get religion" so that there will no longer be any bad people to screw with our stuff and, thus, NO AVs will be needed. Dream on, all ye Polyannas!

    The concept of "free stuff" is the main source of gullibility. Campaigning politicians often promise all kinds of "free stuff," such as "all colleges will henceforth be tuition free". Nothing is truly free, and that most definitely includes Windows Defender. To believe that Windows Defender is free is to believe that the automobile you bought came with free tires. Horse hockey!
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  18. popescu

    popescu Registered Member

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    It is not exactly free but is included in Win10 license you already paid for.
    Another good thing about Defender: Microsoft already spays on you through OS, so there is no additional spying while you use Defender.
    If you install a different antivirus, now you have to worry about somebody else spying on you.

    When I used Avira, each and every .exe from Avira folder was communicating over the internet , minimum 6-8 connections at any given time.
     
  19. bellgamin

    bellgamin Very Frequent Poster

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    I present a bit of history that should be familiar to many of you. Back in the "old days" there were many browsers that eventually "died" -- one of the most prominent was called Netscape. Why did they die? Because Microsoft (M$) began including a "free" browser called "Internet Explorer" that was built into its OS, Windows.

    Once Internet Explorer (IE) became the browser used by nearly 100% of all computer users, M$ allowed IE to deteriorate into a grossly insecure honey pot and crash-mobile. Why? Because M$ no longer had a competitive incentive to spend a lot of resources on maintaining and improving IE.

    Throughout history, lack of meaningful competition has always given birth to mediocrity. IMO, the same thing will occur if & when stand-alone AVs are no longer readily available.

    Some folks think that "days are numbered" for stand-alone AVs because of Windows Defender (WinDef). However, do not forget that WinDef is a child of Windows-the-OS. If Windows-the-OS dies, so also will WinDef.

    IMO, it is Windows-the-OS whose days are MUCH more critically few in number. Why? Because more & more folks are moving to computers where Windows-the-OS is totally absent. Examples of NO-Windows computers include but are not limited to Google's OS, & Linux OS, and Chromebooks, & tablet computers, and UNIX, and to those hand-held computers that people call "Smart Phones" where Windows-the-OS is totally absent.

    Unless M$ converts WinDef into a stand-alone, NON-free AV, it will deteriorate & disappear much sooner than Kaspersky, Avira, ESET, et alia.

    "Free! FREE!!!! It's all FREE! Come on in!" said the spider to the fly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  20. popescu

    popescu Registered Member

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    Probably not in my active life, so not exactly a concern right now. I had . more or less, all paid anti viruses at a certain point and I can say that conflicts, problems, cost , constantly babysitting determined me to stick with MSE on Win7 and Defender on Win10.

    Never had a problem or infection ever since.
     
  21. bellgamin

    bellgamin Very Frequent Poster

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    Much ado about nothing. I, too, have never had a problem or infection in years. Moreover, I have NO conventional AV. The efficacy of an AV is best determined by professional testing, not by anecdotal happenstance. No one said WinDef isn't a good AV. The discussion deals with whether or not WinDef dooms stand-alone AVs to their ultimate doom.

    Avira got sold, not deleted. The buyer got a good price. Big deal! That sale forms an absolutely ZERO basis for doom-sayers -- however, they are quite free to invent a scenario of impending doom as they once again seem to be doing. (^_^)
     
  22. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    Netscape's ancestral spirits live on in Firefox.

    "Mosaic is dead. Long live mosaic!"
    - unmarked gravestone
     
  23. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

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    I'd say MS with Windows Defender are not competing with traditional paid AVs, their target is to offer a product (the OS = Win 10) which is self-reliant in terms of protection, therefore giving users a certain peace of mind by default. In the XP days people knew that without an AV third party, getting infected was a real possibility. MS is not trying to eliminate traditional AVs, it is actually expanding an area of the OS (security) which has been neglected in the past.

    Your claim that the Win 10 days are numbered doesn't reflect the current trends: statistically Win 10 this year (March 2020) accounts for 57% of global OS, all non Windows OS are in the single digit at best (Linux 1.32%)
    Actually the opposite is true, people in the past used to migrate to Linux and Mac OS because they were deemed secure compared to XP and Vista, no AV was needed. In terms of raw numbers Win 10 is approaching 1 billion machines world wide, Win 10 is extremely popular.
    https://netmarketshare.com/operatin...9-04","dateEnd":"2020-03","segments":"-1000"}
     
  24. bellgamin

    bellgamin Very Frequent Poster

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    Percentages are among the easiest calculations for creating logical fallacies:

    %= numerator divided by denominator times 100.

    If numerator grows and denominator stays the same or decreases, or increases at a lesser rate than the numerator, then the % will increase. HOWEVER, the fallacy arises when alleged progress is based on a percentage calculation where the numerator increased while failing to mention that the denominator remained stable, or decreased, or increased at a slower rate than the denominator.

    It is far too easy to be misled when a website shows percent data while neglecting to show the raw numerator & denominator data. This tactic comes straight out of the book, "How to Lie with Statistics" by Darrell Huff.

    For Percent Windows usage on laptops & desktops:

    %= number of desktop & laptop computers using Windows DIVIDED BY total number of desktop & laptop computers TIMES 100.

    The numerator has grown, true enough, but the denominator has shrunk. The denominator consists mainly of desktop & laptop computers. But the home-use/personal-use of desktop and laptop computers is declining, relative to the usage of non-Windows-based smart phones, & tablet computers, & Chromebooks, & Notebook computers. See HERE and HERE.

    Further, if one zeroes in of Win10 as a specific subset of Windows OS since time began, one should recall that, not too long ago, Win10 did not exist. Therefore usage was ZERO. Then Win10 went on the market, often using push tactics, and the usage of Win 10 grew. Wow! It actually grew! (Psst -- that's not too hard to do when beginning at zero.)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers"
    -Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

    "Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
    -Popular Mechanics, 1949

    ""640K of RAM ought to be enough for anybody."
    -Bill Gates (allegedly), 1981

    "I'd say MS with Windows Defender are not competing with traditional paid AVs..."
    -Osaban, 2020
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  25. A_mouse

    A_mouse Registered Member

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    Better to base your opinion on your own personal experience so you can confirm the details, rather than post tenuous supporting links for your cause.
    Even when you chose to install Avira you don't get all those tools installed unless you chose to.
    Seeing the icons in the launcher does not mean they have been installed, just like seeing skype in the win 10 menu does not mean it is installed yet.
    Currently I have a PC with only Avira Home guard and Phantom VPN installed on it. I see all the icons for the rest of the Avira suite, but unless I install them they are not really there.
    If you install any of the Avira products you do so via the launcher, so you always see all the software no matter which you start with.

    As for the System Speedup tool, I was an early beta tester but it will never compete with jvPowertools (none can), and while it does a good job compared with CCleaner, it isn't configurable enough for me.
    jvPowertools has the longest history and experience with cleaning and optimising the system (since win 95 and "regcleanr"), and clearly warns users of the risks involved with fully automated cleaning.
    Going through the list of errors and suggestions yourself is how you decide if it is snakeoil.
    Plenty are nothing but snakeoil, but they are all found as adverts on sites where you are looking for a download button for the thing you really want. This makes them easy to spot and avoid.

    People are familiar with clearing the trash can, temp folders and internet cache during a cleanup.
    Much of what is done is no different just deleting obsolete crud, but jvPowertools can spot when files are present but not being pointed at in the registry so offer to fix it, ignore it, delete it, or open the registry so you can do manual edits.
    Some speed issues with windows come from software repeatedly trying to access files that are gone. Depending on how the failure or error is handled this may add lag to general use and delays to startup.
    It really depends on the error and what is generating it.

    Avira System Speedup is not aimed at nerds and sys admins, which is where it fails for me.
    Avira is only bloatware if you install it all, or somehow fail to uninstall the stuff you don't want.
    Actually while Defender gets "around 100%" repeatedly, what you mean is if you look at the charts it gets 99% quite often, but not as often as Avira gets 100%.
    Go look at the AV-comparatives charts right now and look back at each slide of those 24 months with it set to "value" order instead of vendor.
    Now tell us how often out of those times it beats Avira. I am not even going to count the appalling rate of false positives defender generates, just quote exactly how many times Defender has a higher score than Avira or is in even the top 3
     
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