Freeze Version

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by mrfargoreed, Nov 24, 2007.

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  1. mrfargoreed

    mrfargoreed Registered Member

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    I recently purchased the HDS version of FDISR - the latest version without the freeze option. I forgot to ask for a freeze-compatible version when I ordered the product, but have now asked.

    The problem is that I posted a simple ticket on their support site asking for a download link for the older version with the freeze feature. I've heard nothing for five days from HDS, not even an acknowledgment, despite sending a further two tickets asking why it has taken so long for a simple link.

    I think a couple of others here have asked HDS for an older version with freeze - is it possible to post the link here? I am aware that it might not be possible to do so, but if you don't ask, you don't know, so instead of waiting for HDS to get round to replying to my message (they must be extremely busy, or my request not important enough) I thought I would ask here. No problems if it is not possible.

    Many thanks

    EDIT: I have the Leapfrog version 3.20.202 with the freeze function. Does anybody know if my HDS serial number will work with the Leapfrog version?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2007
  2. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    why don't you use Returnil ( which is free for personal use) to freeze one or more or your snapshots? It is not a perfect solution because although you can freeze a snapshot(s) and on older systems it is faster to reboot and of course it saves drive space you do have to boot using F11 rather than rebooting to the snapshot. Personally I find the trade off better and wouldn't use the freeze part of FD-ISR anyway.
     
  3. mrfargoreed

    mrfargoreed Registered Member

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    I actually do use Returnil, Long View, but I think I'm just used to using FDISR and feel, like most others here, that FDISR should still have the feature included. I feel I'm paying for a product that doesn't have a really useful feature that I actually use. I trialled FDISR and just liked the freeze function. I know Returnil does the same thing in theory - my problem is that I have on occasion forgot to turn Returnil on/off. If my snapshot is frozen, then I don't have this.

    :thumb:
     
  4. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    It must just be a question of habit. I fail to see the problem. If I am using FD-ISR and I have a snap shot with Returnil installed and I turn it on then the snapshot is frozen until I turn it off. Isn't that the way that FD-ISR freeze also works ?

    I must admit I don't use FD-ISR anymore but if I remember correctly I could only have one frozen snapshot. Using Returnil and FD-ISR you can have 10 Plus archives and freeze them all if you want with no need to the slowness of the snapshot checking with the original and need for the extra drive space that freeze requires.

    The only problem I can see is the need to reboot to F11 and then pick the snapshot rather than rebooting direct to a snapshot.

    Pleas just humor me - forget all about the rights and wrongs of an evil company castating the golden bull of the software world - in practice isn't Returnil combined with FD-ISR a reasonable work around ? will those new purchasers notice or care ?
     
  5. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    You can do the same thing with Returnil. Just turn the protection on.
     
  6. mrfargoreed

    mrfargoreed Registered Member

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    You're right Long View - it is habit. And Returnil probably even has benefits over FDISR's freeze in the fact that you can 'freeze' each snapshot as opposed to just one.

    And you're also right - I'm not happy with HDS and I've explained to them, as have many others, why. I feel like I've bought a car without a radio - it's a feature that I like to have and isn't in the latest version.

    Returnil provides a solution, for sure. Like you say, it's a habit. It's a case of paying for something, then that something being taken away, yet you're still paying the same price. There is a previous version that had those 'extras', yet it very difficult to obtain.

    And no, those new purchasers won't care, but having used the old version, I still do :'(

    :thumb:
     
  7. mrfargoreed

    mrfargoreed Registered Member

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    Yes, you are right Peter2150. Like Long View said, it's habit.

    Ok, looks like I'll stick with the current HDS version and Returnil combo for now. :thumb:
     
  8. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    You may have misunderstood me. I wasn't talking about session lock, but in the program there is the protection mode. When on a reboot resets the system back and keeps the protection on until you turn it off.

    Pete
     
  9. mrfargoreed

    mrfargoreed Registered Member

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    I did understand you correctly Peter2150, BUT, again, I've got into the habit of using Returnil with just the Session Lock, not the Protection Mode on most snapshots - perhaps I have to change my habits and think outside the box a bit more.

    The only thing I don't like about this setup is that if I'm using Retunil and want to boot into another snapshot, I have to reboot into the Returnil snapshot first, then boot to the snapshot I want to use. It's a small nag, I know, and I'm saving tons of disk space using Returnil, so it's swings and roundabouts I guess. What I save in space I loose in convenience. :thumb:
     
  10. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Unless I am misremembering - when I used FD-ISR and Returnil I just pressed F11 at boot or reboot time and got a menu. I then chose snapshot 1, 2, 3, 4 whatever. Don't you get this menu ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2007
  11. mrfargoreed

    mrfargoreed Registered Member

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    There's the F1 key when booting into Windows that you can select your snapshot, but if using Returnil's Session Lock (haven't tired the Protection Mode) you have to reboot into the Returnil snapshot you were using - the 'Boot to Snapshot' in FDISR doesn't work if booting from a Returnil Session Lock - it reboots into the current snapshot - I suppose to erase any changes made during the session?
     
  12. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Exactly.
     
  13. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Have just installed FD-ISR 3.2 Build 202 to a drive with Returnil already installed but not activated. Then made a copy and then a second copy. In turn I activated each and at reboot pressed F1 ( my mistake about F11)

    so now if I want to go from primary to second copy I reboot and remember to press F1 and chose second copy. If I fail to press F1 I go back to the snapshot I came from.

    every week or so I would turn off the protection on a snapshot - update programs, regedit, defrag etc and then freeze again. For those who don't always like being frozen then boot to snapshot 4 and use session.

    There is no need to go back to a snapshot for Returnil to work either as session or as permanent. If this were a requirement then the program would fail if there was a power cut for example. so just use F1 to move between snapshots.

    I won't go thru all the combinations but I have turned off protection on one snapshot and not booted back to that snapshot but to another and when I eventually came back to the first it was not protected. The I tried the same with session lock - again no need to reboot to the snapshot first.
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Let me see if I understand. You made several snapshot with Returnil off. Then you turned on returnil, but were able to boot to a 2nd snapshot. Turn it on there. And when you rebooted to snapshot one it was cleaned and still protected. If I understand right, that is awesome.

    Pete
     
  15. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Since I first tried this a few months ago it never occurred to me that there might be a problem. I just gave up on boot to snapshot. so every boot goes thu F1 and you choose the snapshot you want frozen or unfrozen. The only other problem I could see with say 10 frozen snapshots is backing up or rather restoring. I think every snapshot would need to be unfrozen before trying to restore an image.
     
  16. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    With FD-ISR's classic and genuine FREEZE feature you can have the best of both worlds!

    I still use Power Shadow 2.6 which still works like the day it debut'd courtesy Chuck57. The best part of PS is that is can SHADOW the entire drive OR a single partition, i don't think Returnil can do but the C:\ partition only in it's current release.

    I cover ALL my snapshots with PS although as an added bit of protection, if i go to a known malware nest in one of my harvesting patrols, i can use the FD-ISR FREEZE snapshot and be Double-Guaranteed the snapshot will return again in it's original state before since FD-ISR removes "ALL" changes made to my disc. PS clones the drive/partition wheras FD-ISR clones alright but also keeps a concrete archive from which to refresh the frozen snapshot. So in essence, unless i'm mistaken, just using the FROZEN snapshot, changes are written to disk but upon reboot that snapshot is matched up to the FROZEN archive and any of those changes written are REMOVED, whereas with PS they don't even really get written to the disc but a virtual artificial area that tricks the system into thinking it's writing to it.

    Someone correct me if i missed or went off course a bit because as concerns Hard Drive disks i'm like everyone else, i'm learning how these programs protect to preserve the data/system a user intends to keep unchanged on reboot.

    Your classic Boot-To-Restore method which is 100% reliable IMHO
     
  17. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Frozen mode of Returnil/Deepfreeze is not the same as frozen mode of FDISR and therefore not a substitute for FDISR's frozen snapshot.
    Instead of blaming the freeze function of using much space, you better learn how the freeze function works in FDISR and then you will understand why it uses more space and why FDISR + Returnil/DeepFreeze is LESS than FDISR with freeze function. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2007
  18. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    We agree - it is not the same- Even with a "Real" veriosion of FD-ISR I would prefer to use Deepfreeze/Returnil with FD-ISR because it is different (1) As fast and often faster (2) allows multiple frozen snapshots (3) takes up less space. Draw back in that you can't boot to snapshot.

    Could you now elaborate as to how they are different in a way which makes the use of Returnil or Deepfreeze not a substitute for FDISR's frozen snapshot.

    Then possibly new users will be able to choose for themselves ? that is those who can get a copy with a frozen option. Others will have to either have no frozen option or combine FD-ISR with a program like Reurnil or Deepfreeze.
     
  19. mrfargoreed

    mrfargoreed Registered Member

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    I've just tried the freeze of FDISR and agree that the freeze function of FDISR is different to that of Returnil:

    When changing Protection Mode on Returnil, I have to reboot for changes to take effect. With a frozen FDISR snapshot, I can freeze and unfreeze a snapshot without rebooting - the changes then discarded when I choose to reboot.

    For example, I just booted into my Testing snapshot and changed the Protection Mode in Returnil to 'On'. I installed some software, rebooted and the software was gone, but the Protection Mode was still on and to change the Protection Mode again, I had to reboot as Session Lock doesn't appear to be available if Protection Mode is 'On'.

    With a frozen FDISR snapshot, I could unfreeze without rebooting, install software, refreeze without rebooting and continue with what I was doing. Only when I rebooted were any changes made/discarded.

    This kind of makes me personally feel that the FDISR freeze function makes more sense. Or am I missing something with Returnil?

    So, at the moment, I agree with ErikAlbert that "FDISR + Returnil/DeepFreeze is LESS than FDISR with freeze function."
     
  20. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Thanks mrfargoreed. That's great - rather than just saying FD-ISR is wonderful and shouldn't be criticized it is good to see a point in favor of FD-ISR freeze

    My point is and always has been that there are benefits to both and for new users it matters little what was once possible.

    One person my like to flip in and out of freeze another may accept the reboot and have 10 frozen snapshots in preference to just one. Each user has to weigh up the pros and cons and can only say what is best for them. In my case I no longer use FD-ISR at all - having enough machines and alternatives to suit my needs. For others "their milage may differ"
     
  21. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    mrfargoreed,
    Don't forget about softwares that require a reboot during installation, Returnil can't handle these softwares, unless you turn it OFF. Returnil doesn't have the function "Freeze Previous" either.
     
  22. mrfargoreed

    mrfargoreed Registered Member

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    No problem - I am often guilty myself of waxing lyrical about FDISR and that is why I understand why users get passionate about the product - it IS so versatile, reliable, and a remarkable product, even if it could merely restore your machine to a previous state, but to have archive backups and a very 'effective' freeze function, too! When users get passionate about features being excluded I totally understand why and as we have seen in this thread alone, FDISR's freeze IS different to Retunil's method of protecting your machine.

    Precisely, ErikAlbert. I have read many threads about products that don't allow a reboot with newly installed software (Returnil, PowerShadow - both undoubtedly excellent products in my own opinion), yet in FDISR we have a product that can do this - and so much more. And, surely a reason to keep the freeze feature alone!

    Well, I best stop before I'm accused of turning into a rep for FDISR and everyone thinking, 'Why don't you just name your pets and children after the product?' :eek:
     
  23. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    According member "Osaban" there are only 2 ISR-softwares, that can handle softwares with reboot : FDISR and ShadowUser. I didn't verify this myself, because I'm not interested in testing ISR-softwares, like Returnil, DeepFreeze, PowerShadow, ShadowUser, ShadowDefender, ..., these softwares are all alternatives for a frozen snapshot without any further possibilities.
    I have already the maximum of possibilities by using FDISR. Why would I be interested in ISR-software, that only would replace a frozen snapshot, which is an additional feature of FDISR ? I like to go forward, not backward. :)
     
  24. mrfargoreed

    mrfargoreed Registered Member

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    I couldn't agree more :thumb: :thumb:
     
  25. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    I really don't know why. I have Returnil on one of my snapshots and can easily boot to any shapshot provided you disengage the Protection, not only that, but have a play with BOOT.INI in any of your snapshots if you also have another hard drive and you got a great multipurpose multiple boot system all on a single box. It's as easy as Candy for a baby.

    Session Lock is only a temporary PROTECTION MODE (I Think) and so if you're using that after a reboot you can easily change snapshots.

    I think you're talking about trying to use FD Manager to boot to another snapshot while still in Returnil's Protection Mode. That's a safety mechanism and why it was designed to work that way.
     
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