Fix Vista so a Repair is not needed after a restore or clone

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by MudCrab, Sep 17, 2007.

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  1. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    ploquit,
    These posts cover a lot of options. What was your fix? Can you be more specific?
     
  2. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    For anyone still following this thread, there is something that we missed in the first post.

    If you "generalize" your BCD to make it location-independent, then there are four entries that need to be changed:
    The added entry updates the pointer to the Windows Memory Diagnostic tool. If this fourth entry is not updated and you relocate your Vista partition then you will see an error message when attempting to run the memory diagnostic tool from the Vista Boot Loader screen.
     
  3. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Thanks, Mark.

    I'll get the change made in the first post. Unless you force list all the BCD entries, you won't see the {memdiag} entry, which is probably why it got missed. Also, since this can be fixed easily while Windows is running, it's not nearly as critical. Still, having it working correctly is good.

    I have not tested whether or not TI 11 or TI 2009 correctly update the {memdiag} entry along with the Vista entry.
     
  4. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Earlier today I tried to help a friend set up an acer with a wireless internet connection and noticed the situation regarding FAT16. my guess is that the hidden partition is where Acer store their restore image. Not being brave enough to do anthing that might mess up someone ele's machine I opted to use the Acer backup program. It took 50 minutes to do what Acronis or Shadow Protect could do in a few minutes. where it stored the image I could not tell.
    I might try to change to 07 but am concerned if this could mess up the Acer backup system.
     
  5. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Long View,

    I'm not quite sure what the question is here. If you're asking about changing the partition type from FAT16 to NTFS (07h), I wouldn't do that as it would most likely cause major corruption.
     
  6. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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  7. steve630

    steve630 Registered Member

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    Hi all, this is exactly the thread I needed. Thanks, very nearly just did a restore to my broken Vista but just thought I'd check first and came across this. Can someone clarify my own particular situation for me.
    I bought a new HP laptop fitted with single HD. C partition contained Vista home premium but it also contained a hidden HP system recovery partititon (as they do). After I'd dumped the trial software bloat, a visit to Acronis web site told me I could use my TI 10 version with Vista but not Disk Director 9. So ater upgrading I installed DD10/TI10 along with the rest of my software. Then using Disk Director10, from C partition I created a new D partition for my docs and data leaving Vista and programs on the smaller resized C.
    I deleted the hidden recovery partition adding the resulting unallocated space to D.
    Then from both my TI10/DD10 installations I created recovery boot CD's for each.
    Finally still using installed TI10, I created my image of C which would now be my main restore/reinstall option if and when things break.
    Well things broke and I can't fix or get into Vista using it's own disc's recovery options. (I built and installed Vista on partners computer so I had Vista disk to try)
    So I'm left with my backup of C on an external drive, which was imaged by TI10, from partitions created by DD10, all done before reading this thread, with only a TI10 recovery boot disc to do it with, which incidentally doesn't seem to want to finish veryfying my .tib file using the disc's DD10 full mode, leaving me and my disc stuck in safe mode with my restore file right up poop creek with no paddle/usb drivers. At this rate, tomorrow my misses will probably drive over my dog, which she hated, probably as she leaves me for a man with better and newer software!
    That! . . I can get over (apart from the dog)
    But can i restore my C image with what I've got, back to the partition originally created by HP for Vista which I resized with Disk director?
    Frankly, I'm thinking no.
    Thanks for listening.
    :)
     
  8. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    For the Full Mode version of TI from the CD, have you tried the quiet acpi=off noapic option detailed in Section II of the PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU POST thread?

    What error messages/problems are you having when you try to boot the computer?

    Is the Vista DVD Repair feature giving you any error messages or saying that something is wrong?

    Is the current TI 10 image you have of the Entire Disk or just of the C: (Windows) partition? If it's just the C: partition and it was created after you changed the partitions, then it shouldn't need the fix from this thread to be bootable.
     
  9. steve630

    steve630 Registered Member

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    Thanks for the quick reply. Your first option is new to me so I'll go and read that thread now. In answer to your other questions :-
    In full mode Acronis boot CD boots the computer fine with all options showing. But it has stopped/hung twice showing no progress for ages and not responding to mouse clicks. First - whilst verifying my .tib backup it stopped 5 mins from the end. After watching it tick down it then didn't appear to be doing anything for the next half hour and didn't respond to me trying to stop process I finally rebooted to stop verification.Secondly though -it hung during the restore process immediately after I chose the partition I wanted to restore to - I then thought it wise for me to stop now incase it chose to stop half way through the unstoppable.

    After disabling 'restart Vista after a crash' from Vista DVD I was able to freeze the blue screen message which had previously flashed just before starting another restart loop, which read -
    Windows has stopped because of errors found that could damage your computer. If you've changed software/hardware restart using recovery CD to try and fix errors automatically. If you've had a power failure try and start windows normally. (that didn't work obviously)

    Vista DVD's recovery program gave up with message -
    Vista boot manager - status 0xc000000f - problems could not be fixed automatically - - the boot selection failed because a required device could not be found'

    Went back to recovery program's other options and did manual scans on drive - all ok.

    I then tried to restart from all of Vista's various start menu safer options, all of which failed bringing me back to the error message that sent me there in first place (start with recovery disc)


    Trying to boot/start the computer with various means gave the following messages.

    3 - Booted from Acronis Disk Director CD full mode next. It stopped with error -
    'EF E000101f4 - DD has not found a hard drive'

    At this point I took out and re-seated the drive in back of laptop.

    3 - Then to Bios to verify hard drive was reconised correctly - it was.
    Boot order? - Fine.
    Changing boot order just in case? - no effect either.
    Reset all bios settings to default while I was there and ran bios smart diagnostics on hard drive. Both quick and full test passed. (as did the disc scan I earlier did with Vista DVD). Memory test - pass. Run test? - pass.

    4 - Then remembered safe modes are on Acronis boot CD's too. Both DD10 and TI10 reconised the drive and booted allowing me to explore the drives content so I could see it with my own eyes. While there tried TI10 full mode which booted fully so I copied the C drive partition in full to a different external drive. That completed correctly and is there to look at if needed.

    5 - Next, H.P's recovery discs which I made from the original restore partition stopped during the first disc saying -
    'could not restore to disc, Error code 1012, contact support'

    And another blue screen appeared somewhere during the overall process -
    Driver IRQL not less or equal - NDIS.SYS

    The image of C (sorry, I shouldn't call it a drive) is an image of the C partition only. Drive also contains D partition made with DD10. I am trying to restore the C image to exactly the parttitioned drive set up it was created from.

    Thanks again
     
  10. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    When you tried the Safe Mode version of TI, did you have the USB drive already connected and powered on? For the USB drive to work with the Safe Mode version of TI, the drive has to be detected and supported by the BIOS. If it does work, you may be able to use the Safe Mode version to restore the image, though it will be slow.

    Another option is to try TI 2009. You can download the trial version and create a TI CD (it will only do restores). However, you'd have to have access to another computer to do this. Try the other options first.
     
  11. steve630

    steve630 Registered Member

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    I didn't even try safe mode as the TI (version10) startup screen said safe mode didn't support them. I don't think I mis-read it. I'll check again.
    I'm beginning to wonder whether to just upgrade to 2009 anyway as Christmas has just introduced 2 more computers into the house both with Vista and it's me who'll have to fix them just as it was me who was fleeced for them. With the mix of Vista and XP computers now in the house I just want to make the processes of backing them up and fixing them as easy as possible. I'm also a bit worried about how easy it was for Vista to get knocked out and how less recoverable it is than XP. I'm pretty confident that messed up or wrong wireless adaptor drivers were the cause of Vista's collapse as I've been reading today about many laptops with similar problem. Remembering that Vista crashed milliseconds after I installed wireless drivers on mine I tend to agree ;)
    If I get TI 2009 and use it to create a new boot CD on a Vista machine, will that CD boot both XP and Vista computers? And will it see older image files made with TI10, being able to restore both them and future 2009 images back again to both Vista or XP machines, regardless of the differences in their boot information I've just read about in this thread?
    If that's the case then I'll move with the times and get the new one.
     
  12. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Ignore the message that USB isn't supported. It depends totally on the computer's BIOS. You have to boot into it and find out.

    The TI CD is OS independent (the OS is on the CD). The CD will be the same whether you create it in Vista or in XP.

    Acronis only guarantees one version back compatibility (TI 11 for TI 2009). However, the support for older image versions is very good. I doubt you'd have a problem with your TI 10 images.

    Starting with TI 2009, you can unlock the trial version when you purchase the program. This means you don't need to uninstall the trial version and install the regular version. The newer versions generally provide better support for newer hardware. TI 10 is having more and more problems with new computers because of the outdated drivers it uses. TI 11 and 2009 can also restore Vista (usually) without BCD file problems. TI 10 doesn't update the BCD file and that is what the fix is for in this thread.
     
  13. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Steve:

    That confirms your suspicion about the wireless driver (NDIS = Network Driver Interface Specification). Have you tried system restore from the Vista DVD? Although if you've moved the partition that Vista is on you've probably lost the restore points.

    I suspect that if you can do a manual BCD repair from the Vista DVD to get Windows to boot, then you may be able to start Vista in safe mode and uninstall the NDIS driver.
     
  14. steve630

    steve630 Registered Member

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    I just read the sticky in 'useful threads' regarding TI10 and Vista. Acronis didn't quite pin that version then eh, yet here I am 2 years later merrily using it to restore a new computer to a slightly different way of not being able to start than it just had. TI10 was 'Vista Compatible' as in they both came in the same sized box? Oh well. I'm still a fan as the program has never let me dow yet. I'm not about to give it that chance now either so I'm going to do exactly as you suggest and get the new version.
    Thanks for helping out so quickly here and thanks too for all the stuff I learnt from you in the other thread.
     
  15. PilotBrad

    PilotBrad Registered Member

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    Wow, I am getting quite the education here. I am reading this in advance of attempting my first restoration of my Vista partition, but I think I now have more answers than questions.

    Maybe someone familiar with all of this could address a couple of my questions...

    My PC was originally shipped with XP, and then upgraded to Vista. Then about a month ago, I upgraded the HDD by cloning and in the process created a new partition which I then installed XP on, making my system dual-boot with Vista on C: and XP on D: (as reported by Vista).

    I am curious if the procedure is even necessary for me since the original partition was for XP, then upgraded to Vista, but then cloned to a new HDD.

    If I should in fact perform the fix before restoring, will it have any effect on my dual-boot configuration?

    Lastly, from the last few posts here it sounds like Downloading TI 2009 and creating a rescue CD from it might be the best way to restore my TI 10 archives. Any thoughts?

    Thanks.
     
  16. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Doing the "fix" from this thread shouldn't cause any problems booting Vista since Vista is the booting partition. However, if your TI 10 image is of the Vista partition when it was already an "XP standard" partition (63 sector offset), then the fix shouldn't be necessary.

    The dual boot setup won't be affected by these changes since only Vista's BCD entries will be changed.

    TI 2009 will normally fix the BCD file so Vista can boot correctly. However, in multi-boot setups, TI doesn't always get every OS "fixed" during the restore.

    Keep in mind that if you do apply this fix before you restore, you'll need to create a new backup of the partition. This can be either a Full or an Incremental (based on your current Full). Otherwise, the updated BCD file won't be restored.
     
  17. PilotBrad

    PilotBrad Registered Member

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    Thanks MudCrab!!!

    I know I am straying a bit off topic here, but after installing XP, the system will only boot to XP, not Vista. Therefore I entered these commands into the Command Prompt option of Vista's repair option (from DVD).

    bootrec.exe /fixMBR
    bootrec.exe /fixBoot

    I was then able to boot into Vista and run at the command prompt (as admin)...

    bcdedit -set {ntldr} device partition=C:
    bcdedit -set {ntldr} path \ntldr
    bcdedit -displayorder {ntldr} -addlast
    bcdedit -set {ntldr} description "Microsoft Windows XP"

    I don't know if you know, but perhaps re-running these commands might fix any BCD issues I end up with after I restore the Vista partition.

    Then, assuming it all works, it's FULL back-up time!
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  18. PilotBrad

    PilotBrad Registered Member

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    Sorry, let me be sure I understand this. My TI 10 image is simply the result of my weekly scheduled FULL back-up job, where I back-up the entire Vista [C:] partition. This C: partition was originally XP when the PC was delivered and was upgraded to Vista loooong ago. Last month, I cloned my old HDD to a new larger HDD, resizing the Vista [C:] partition and installing XP on a new [D:] partition in the process.

    So I guess by your definition, my Vista partition was an XP partition, and theoretically doesn't need the fix.

    Sorry to be dwelling on some many fine details, but I've learned that even the smallest changes in Vista can have significant effects.

    Thanks!
     
  19. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    If the existing XP partition isn't being changed and the backup you'll be restoring of the Vista partition contains the correct XP booting information, I don't think there should be any problems with XP. However, if you do run into that type of problem, you will need to edit the {ntldr} BCD entries to be correct.
     
  20. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Correct. Also, since you have a Vista DVD, if for some odd reason you do need to do a repair, you can.
     
  21. PilotBrad

    PilotBrad Registered Member

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    RE: Vista Repair

    Yea, the strange thing there is that when I tried that last night, the repair program couldn't detect a valid Vista partition. It might be a disk driver issue, but oddly when I clicked the button to locate the drivers, I could browse the Vista partition [C:].

    This happened before... When I first tried to repair the boot record after installing XP. However I was still able to access the command prompt of the repair option and enter the bootrec fixes I needed, then boot into Vista and do the BCDEdit stuff. It worked so I never questioned it.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  22. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    In many cases, I've found that doing Vista repairs manually provides better results. Often times, the "automatic" repair option on the Vista DVD doesn't work properly or takes two or three times to actually get the system fixed -- and that's assuming it sees it.
     
  23. steve630

    steve630 Registered Member

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    Firstly, k0olo. thanks for that, I didn't see your post the last time. It had to be the network adaptor because I was messing with it's properties during a problem with Comodo firewall. Soon as clicked a button that I shouldn't have I was Vista-less.
    Just for information on what happened to me.
    I had nothing to loose by trying the restore with TI10. It worked fine with no problems at all and after reading through this and the other threads TI10/Vista/boot sector problems my scenario fits in with what was discovered. I'd created my partitions with Disk Director so an Acronis image restore back to the same partition set up, even with TI10, was likely to work. I just restored the C partition, not the whole disc. I also remembered that once, when I formated/partitioned a new drive with Disk director, then installed windows onto it, it wouldn't boot. Think I got the 'couldn't find NTLDR.sys' message.
    I used the windows disc then to re-format, re-installed and it was fine.
    So my expreience with TI10 is just as mudcrab discovered ages ago, with an added - 'don't install windows on a DiskDirector created partition either' - is:-
    If windows created the partition that you've imaged, then without any fixes you're likely to have problems.
    With windows already installed, if you then use DiscDirector to move,resize/ create another partition on disc, DD has then become the creator of the partition and a restore of that would work.
    This is probably old hat now but just thought I'd bore you with it.
    Thanks everyone for the help.


    (Don't know if it's sorted now with newer Acronis versions, this was TI10 & DD9 at the time)
     
  24. PilotBrad

    PilotBrad Registered Member

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    Just a quick follow up... the restore of my Vista partition using TI 10 was a success. It booted right up with no changes or repairs needed.

    Thank you!
     
  25. Budster

    Budster Registered Member

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    Did the fix as described in MudCrab's post of 9/16/07. The bcd file looks correct (see screenshot) but the partition table of my system partition still shows sector 13. Is it necessary for this to be 63 before a vista restore can be accomplished? Should I edit the partition table?
     

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