Fix Vista so a Repair is not needed after a restore or clone

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by MudCrab, Sep 17, 2007.

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  1. appster

    appster Registered Member

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    Thanks for the explanation MudCrab - can't say I like what you're saying, but at least it's best that I understand this problem (and work-around) before I'm in a position where I have to restore my C (Vista) partition!
     
  2. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    I agree 100%.

    Hopefully, Acronis will release a final build of TI 10 that has the Vista fix in it and then all of this won't be necessary.
     
  3. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    Mudcrab,and all -
    here is my bcdedit FILE. I hvae NOT edited it, because there are some parameters (resumeobject, toolsdisplayorder) that do NOT appear in your repaired files, that curently exist in my original files.
    If I edit this in my partition, before doing a backup, will these pareameters remain, or will they muck up stuff?

    to all, re: the vista anytime upgrade DVD, I still can'tfigure out how to get to see my current disks, upon booting with that disk; when I boot, it asks me aoubt what language, and what currency I want to use.

    AND, to all,there is a WinPE (search for wndows AIK, automated install kit, by microsoft), which is downloadable,and creates pre-install boot disk (similar to Bart PE, for vista distribution), but I cn't see my drives either.

    any feedback appreciated.
    Nick


    Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6000]
    Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

    C:\Windows\system32>bcdedit

    Windows Boot Manager
    --------------------
    identifier {bootmgr}
    device unknown
    description Windows Boot Manager
    locale en-US
    inherit {globalsettings}
    default {current}
    resumeobject {14ce746d-5056-11dc-81dc-806e6f6e6963}
    displayorder {current}
    toolsdisplayorder {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d}
    {memdiag}
    timeout 30
    customactions 0x1000000720001
    0x54000001
    custom:54000001 {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d}

    Windows Boot Loader
    -------------------
    identifier {current}
    device partition=C:
    path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
    description Windows Vista (TM) Business (recovered)
    recoverysequence {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d}
    recoveryenabled Yes
    osdevice partition=C:
    systemroot \Windows
    resumeobject {14ce746d-5056-11dc-81dc-806e6f6e6963}

    C:\Windows\system32>
     
  4. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    aoz: After entering your language, currency and keyboard on the first window, click "Next". The second window is the one you want; it has a "Repair your computer" choice. That's what you want.
     
  5. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    ok, i'll take your word for it, I don't want to reinstal vista, just repair. I'll boot this later tonight....
    OK, back to the other thread..
     
  6. The Sand

    The Sand Registered Member

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    Maybe you have heard but I haven't had any trouble restoring my Vista just doing a single partition backup - single partition restore (no error message.) If I ever want to do a entire disk restore I was told I should look into doing the above repair. I wanted to check to see what my computer said before I did the above repair. I executed the above instructions all the way to typing in cd\windows\system32 - but then it just sits there - this black empty screen. How do I actually "look" to see if my comuter says "device boot" or "device partition C."

    I want to know what it currently says before I make a change/repair - and based on the fact I can do a single partition restore do you think I should make the repair.

    I looked around in Help - but there isn't anything on BCD edit in help - it refers to you the Microsoft website which wasn't helpful either... it might be to somebody who is far more "techie" than myself but it wasn't helpful to me.

    Just looking for some feedback - I don't currently have restore problems, but don't want to run into any in the future either...

    Thanks,
    Sandy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2007
  7. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Sandy:

    To view your current BCD settings, when you get the command prompt window displayed on screen, just type the following:
    Code:
    bcdedit
    and then press <Enter>.

    How was Vista installed on your PC? Did you install it yourself? If so, did you install it to a partition that was created by Windows XP originally?

    If you install Vista to an existing partition that was created by Windows XP or almost any other partitioning tool then it will happily adapt to the standard 63-sector offset. I suspect this is what has happened in your case. If so, you don't need to do anything. If you restore your Vista partition with TrueImage it will not be moved upon restore and thus no repair will be needed.
     
  8. The Sand

    The Sand Registered Member

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    Thanks Mark, I did "bcdedit" and it fully worked! It said Device - Partition=C in both cases (looking at Mudcrabs graph highlighed in red.)

    I bought this computer (it's an Acer Aspire 3680 Notebook) with Vista Home Basic already installed. It was a gift from my sister in May 2007. I haven't done anything to it (before my sister gave it to me her boyfriend put more ram in it though.)

    So, I'm not sure where this leaves me... based on the facts thus far do you think I should "repair" or leave it alone?

    Sandy
     
  9. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    If I'm reading this correctly, then you've already done a successful restore of your Vista partition. If this is the case, then you don't need to make any changes as your system is restoring correctly.

    However, if you do want to make the change, it shouldn't hurt anything and you can always change it back to the "partition=C:" option if you want.

    The repair method outlined in this thread is not necessary if you are restoring a Vista Entire Disk image.
     
  10. The Sand

    The Sand Registered Member

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    I having been rolling fine with single partition restores. But I started looking around (on the forum) and it sounds like full disk backups are a good idea... that they are better. Thus I wanted to make sure I could do that. I must have misunderstood - I thought I needed the repair for the full disk backup/restore. If I don't then I won't make any changes. It is nice to know that you can change it (or do the repair) - and if it doesn't work out right - change it back... people like me don't necessarily know stuff like that so thanks for adding it.

    Thanks for your response here - as always your help is much appreciated :)

    Sandy
     
  11. CorkyG

    CorkyG Registered Member

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    Actually, the repair is a lot simpler and easier. Just boot with the Vista DVD, select Repair Install, and it does it in about 30 seconds. All it really has to do is set the boot partition boundary.

    I only speak for cloning - never do backup that requires a restore. I find that cloning with version 11's Rescue Disk works perfectly - no repair needed.
     
  12. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Running the Repair from the Vista DVD is easy, however a lot of people don't have a Vista DVD because a lot of computers don't come with standard Windows CDs/DVDs anymore. All they have is a restore DVD (if that). Most just have a restore partition on the hard drive.
     
  13. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    MudCrab,
    In the situation described by The Sand above: he has already successfully restored his Vista system partition from a single partition backup; which bcdedit shows as "Device - Partition=C" in both cases.

    Would you clarify below:
    Should he decide to upgrade to a new higher capacity disk via either the cloning or image restoring function, won't he still need to do your bcdedit repair (or a Vista CD repair)?
    Am I correct in this interpretation?
     
  14. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Grover,

    Since The Sand has already done a partition restore that didn't require a repair, it would seem that Vista is already repaired and the partiton is probably starting at sector offset 63 instead of 2048. Without seeing the partition table I can't confirm this, though.

    So, I guess the answer would be maybe yes and maybe no. If I were changing drives, I would just give it a try like it is. If it didn't work, I'd do the "fix" and then retry.

    I have not done extensive tests on this and the ones I ran were on the SAME drive. There may be differences when switching to a different drive. The main thing is to be aware of the problem ahead of time and be prepared.

    If you want to play it safe, do the fix first, make sure Vista boots correctly, and then clone or image & restore to the new drive.
     
  15. The Sand

    The Sand Registered Member

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    Shoud I look at this to confirm?

    The problem you are talking about with restore and Vista - is it "difficult" to fix when you run into it?

    And you are so right about NOT getting the OS on cd. I have owned 3 computer in the last 5 years and you NEVER get the OS. I have even had Microsoft themself tell me to call my OEM and get it - but the OEM will NOT give it to you. Like MudCrab said you get the "restore partition on the hard drive." That has been true of both my HP's and my Acer. They do always recommend you burn cd's when you first get your computer in case the recovery partition fails. I have those - but still... I think this limits what you can do too...

    I don't think you guys run into this - you "install" your Vista because you are better at this and can. Most people just buy their computer and run with whatever is on it. I wanted to upgrade my Vista Home Basic but my OEM basically said I should not.

    Thanks for the input here... of course, the more I read on this forum, the more confused I get - "reading" can do that sometimes.... but I also know I have learned a lot.

    Sandy (p.s. I am a female :) it was kinda weird hearing yourself called "he."
     
  16. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    If you want to look at the partition table, you'll need Disk Director or another program that allows it. Standard Windows apps won't.

    Yes, it can be VERY difficult to fix IF you don't have anything to fix it with. The procedure in this thread is to be premptive and "fix" the problem before it becomes a problem. To fix it afterwards, you need a BartPE CD, a standard Microsoft retail or OEM Vista DVD (not a "brand" OEM DVD) or a Vista Anytime Upgrade DVD.

    Most will only let you restore your system back to the way it was when you purchased it. They offer little or nothing in the way of general repairs.

    I always do this and a lot of other people do too. I perfer having the OS installed the way I want. Most of my computers are custom built. The last "brand" computer I have is an old Dell 8100 and it was a standard setup. They didn't do recovery partitions, etc. back then. It came with a regular WinME install CD.

    This may depend on the specifications of the computer. Can it handle Vista Premium or Ultimate? If so, then I don't see why you couldn't upgrade. Just be aware that many sellers won't support computers if the user changes to on OS not recommended or originally supported by them for that computer.
     
  17. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Sandy:
    A quick way to do this is to download the PowerQuest partition table editor from the following web address:
    Code:
    ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PTEDIT32.zip
    It is an executable file -- you don't need to install anything. Just download it to your desktop, unzip, and then right-click on the file PTEDIT32.EXE and choose "Run as Administrator". The display will show your current partition table. If you post a screen shot then we will be able to tell you the current offset (63 or 2048 sectors).

    Caution! This tool can also be used to make changes to the partition table so stay away from the "Save Changes" button! Just use it to have a look. The attached screen shot is from a Vista machine with a 63-sector offset.
     

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  18. The Sand

    The Sand Registered Member

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    Fabulous! Fabulous info from you guys!

    I will totally do that Mark and screen shot it here so you can see. (that is if I can get it all to go okay.)

    Because NO (based on MudCrab's post) I do not have what is needed if something had gone wrong. Had it gone wrong, you would have heard me SCREAMING from here. Really, you want your "recovery" to go well - because you are using it to get yourself out of some "other" problem.

    I am a big believer in making sure something doesn't go wrong... taking care of stuff before hand. I know I haven't had a problem with single partition restore - but if I want to do something different... I don't want a problem. I won't have the tech savvy to get myself out of it.

    Thanks for the info... it's terrific!

    Sandy (oh yeah, I ran that program that Microsoft provides that checks to see if your computer can handle an upgrade. I could - with some changes that I think I might be able to handle myself - but like MudCrab said, I would lose my warranty... and it's a 2 year warranty. So, I don't know... really, I wanted to do it because I want to see that "aero" thing - is it really cool? Is it worth the "upgrade?"
     
  19. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Sandy,

    You won't lose the warranty on the computer by changing the OS, so don't worry about that. What you may lose is OS support from the manufacturer because they won't support a different OS than what was originally installed on the computer. Ask them if you want to know for sure. There is not that much difference between the versions of Vista as far a support goes and the drivers are the same so they may not have problem with it.

    Personally, I like Areo, but everyone has a different opinion. However, Areo is nothing compared to Beryl on Linux.
     
  20. The Sand

    The Sand Registered Member

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    I followed the instructions and everything went fine. It is just a matter of getting the print screen here in the forum. I tried to attach but got an error message so I don't know. If not I can tell you what it said. There were a bunch of "63" which is the correct number right (from reading what MudCrab wrote.) If so then I should be able to do any kind of backup/restore I want, in any way I want - without any kind of error message popping up in my future.

    Thanks for the help and detailed instructions here - I now have peace of mind... I wanted to know for sure if everything was what it should be.

    Sandy :)
     

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    Last edited: Sep 26, 2007
  21. The Sand

    The Sand Registered Member

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    Okay... so maybe there is a "tad" more showing there than I would have liked...

    Sandy
     
  22. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Sandy:

    Could you resize the PTEDIT32 window until the scroll bars disappear -- some of the information is hidden just off-window to the left. Make sure that it is the active window (in front of all others) and then press ALT-PrtScn to get a capture of only that window without the "tad" more showing.

    You can probably edit your post that shows your entire desktop to delete that image and substitute one showing just the PTEDIT32 window.
     
  23. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Sandy,

    Assuming your Vista partition is the first partition, it is already at the 63 sector offset. So you shouldn't have a problem restoring just the Vista partition or the entire disk image.

    For future reference, here is a link to capturing a screen or window using just the Paint program.

    And here is a link telling how to include it directly in your post.
     
  24. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Thanks MudCrab for your response to my post #38.

    Sandy, even more info about posting is listed in my signature below. (Attachment posting.)

    Prior to capturing the printscreen into the clipboard, sometimes you can improve its size by making the window smaller (or larger) using the arrows along the window margin.

    Once you have your initial PrintScreen image in your clipboard, then bring it into your favorite photo editor. There you can crop or cut out much of the un-necessary. Even use your editors feature to enhance the quality so the print is very readable.

    Then save the finalized smaller picture into either a "gif or jpg or png" picture type. I choose whichever will give me the smallest file size. The reason for making the file size as small as possible is to improve (or not delay) the loading speed of the attachment for those people interested in viewing the thread. Some of your viewers (such as me and probably others) are still using 56K dialup so when a posting has lots of picture attachments, the screen loading for those individual can be improved by using smaller file sizes.

    PS: Your revised smaller picture is much improved. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2007
  25. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Paul:

    I think her Vista partition is the second one. It's the one with the boot flag set. The file system ID is hidden off-screen to the left; that would confirm and is why I asked her to redo the screen shot.

    **Edit** Now looking at the revised screen shot.

    I see:

    Partition 1 (Type 27 - unknown) 8 GB
    Partition 2 (Type 0E - FAT16) 36 GB bootable
    Partition 3 (Type 07 - NTFS) 35.7 GB

    This brings up a few more questions -- what is in your partitions? Is #1 a recovery partition? And which is your Vista partition, #2 or #3?* Perhaps a screen shot from Windows Disk Management would help.

    *Edit* Vista must be in partition 2 because there is no offset between the end of partition 2 and the start of partition 3. So 3 must be a data partition. But why is the Vista partition FAT16 instead of NTFS?

    I agree with Paul - this is a plain vanilla standard partition table with 63-sector offsets so you should have no trouble restoring Vista unless you move its partition starting sector.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2007
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