First Defense Question

I'm interested in FD too but I already have True Image so what would I need First Defense for?

Anyone want to explain why there are so many restrictions (defrag etc) that one has to be aware of (as well as imaging)? A simple stright and forward back-up and restore utillity FD is not so I wonder why all the fuss and why some are saying it's so good. Maybe they haven't tried the others so are speaking from ignorance but I find it very strange that a program that has you worried about defrags as well as imaging can be anything but a pain as I forget often and if I do then FD will stuff up. Is this really what it's being made out to be by some or is it only a very few who are saying this, unaware of the many excellent programs out there which one doesn't have to 'keep an eye' on for defragging and imaging conflicts.

Dave

 

Good question. Personally, I would email Raxco tech support. I had a ton of questions before I purchased their product and they answered everyone very quickly AND that excellent support also continued AFTER I purchased FD.

You can see the snapshot file but they are closed. In reality they will of course probably be several gigabytes in size but the right-click properties will show up as zero in size. This is one of the attributes of the NT filing system that enables FD to perform its magic, the ability to keep everything inside those files hidden. According to Greg Hayes, one of the Raxco tech support people, ALL of the snapshots get defragged when you run a defragger, not just the snapshot that you are using; I personally asked him that one myself.

Even though my drive is not partitioned, I also asked about partitioning before I purchased FD and Greg said that, Yes, FD is compatible with partitioning programs. Firstdefense ONLY backs up the c:drive and that backup is also CONTAINED in the c:drive; no other partitions are used or effected in any way. No other partitions are backed up and you cannot store any snapshots on another partition; EVERYTHING happens on the c:drive only, similar to Goback. I hear rumor that a future FD version will allow storing the unused snapshots on another partition or something like that.

Don’t be bashful about emailing Raxco with any question, they are great. Good luck.

Acadia

 

You may not need FD, it is not for everybody, what program is? FD jealously guards the Master Boot Record, as does Goback, which some defrag programs move, that is when you can have problems, albeit just minor ones. The built-in MS defragger does not touch the MBR, so is perfectly safe to use. Actually, with the exception of Goback which is automatic, FD is the easiest backup type program I have ever used and much more flexible than Goback or TrueImage. You can have separate configurations of your system on your computer, ready to call up at any time. Right now at this moment, I can go back to a configuration that does not have SP2 if I want too. You can have different anti-viruses EVEN DIFFERENT OPERATING SYSTEMS, only catch being that they must all be NTFS. It is quite literally like having completely different computers and it makes you fearless, willing to experiment with anything; FD was originally developed as a way to bring you out of a no-boot situation. The only thing that FD can not save you from is a physical hard drive breakage; the future version of FD should be able to save you even from that as long as the different partition also means a different hard drive.

I have switched back and forth among my TEN different c:drives many dozens of time and have yet to encounter one single problem or error message.

Acadia

 

Hi worldcitizen,

I believe that FD, like GoBack, use a .bin file to store "snapshots". If the .bin file gets trashed, then you lose everything. So there is concern about properly defragmenting it. Users have similar concerns about defragging standard image files (TI, Ghost, BootIt NG...). I am also thinking about getting FD. If I do, I will continue to image the drive itself using a Ghost 2003 or BootIt NG boot CD.

Nick

 

Indeed, I make a complete image of EVERYTHING using both True Image and Drive Image; because of FD I've never had to do a restore from either of those programs but I still make backups in case of total hard drive failure.

Acadia

 

Arcadia - thanks for your reply and I liked your answers.

If you don't mind I have one important question. I like the idea of being able to 'switch' between configurations but how long does the switch take? Does it take a long time to restore a snapshot? Does it take a long time to take a snapshot? Is this just another imaging program? True image uses a similar concept where you use a 'Secure Zone' to create a snapshot which can be accessed at boot up using the F1 key. What's the difference between the two if there is any?

I'm interested in buying but not unless there is some distinct advantage I get over True image while keeping TI for back-up images on other drives.

Also, are Raxco coming out with a new version of FD soon?

Thanks

Dave

 

Worldcitizen,

It takes a couple of minutes to switch snapshots. It can take several minutes to restore a snapshot depending upon what you are doing and how old or recent (how far apart in time) the two snapshots are from each other. It takes about 9 minutes for me to make a brand new snapshot about 3.5 gigabytes in size but I have a newer faster processor. Not sure about your Secure Zone question, I use an older version of TrueImage, 6.0, does that have Secure Zone? You can try FD for free. I suggest going to the Raxco site and studying both the FAQ and Knowledgebase. Also they have a couple of PFD files you can download and study, at least they use to.

Acadia

EDIT: I do not know the time frame for the new version.

 

Let's just say I install FD and take a snapshot and I turn on the FD booting option. Then I get hard drive corruption and can't restore any snapshot. How do I disable the FD Master Boot Record MANUALLY so I can have access to my hard drive again because if I can't get into Windows and can't restore an image from say True Image because of the MBR then I'm stuffed aren't I?

And if the MBR is written to how will I be able to re-install Windows because the MBR may not be able to be removed without accessing FD?

I'm writing this because once I forgot to uninstall GoBack and did a re-install of Windows and it wouldn't boot because the MBR still had GoBack's boot menu on it and I had to take my PC to the shop who charged me $55 to clean the MBR. It was then I became very weary of programs changing the MBR because undoing it can be a real problem and you can lose all functionality of your pc if you don't know how to fix the problem.

Dave

 

This is taken from Raxco's site:

If you perform a boot time defrag pass and $ISR.BIN is "moved" by a defragmenter, then the MBR code will no longer find $ISR.BIN at the location specified in the MBR and you may have problems rebooting your system.

So I personally would 'read between the lines' before buying this product because it could cause your PC not to reboot if you're not careful or are unaware of the 'dangers of defragging' which everyone does.

Yet I didn't see Raxco going out of their way to inform users about this possible 'catastrophe' if you use a defragger. Most users would use their defragger without even thinking and there lies the danger. If they can't reboot then they will be up the creek.

Any thoughts on this? I'm bound to forget to exclude the file and I defrag many times. So this program can very well do the opposite of what it's for if you defrag your hard drive. Hmmmmmm not sure what to make of this but it doesn't look that appealing anymore.

Any comments would be very much appreciated.

Dave

 

From reading I have performed a boot time defrag (Diskeeper, O&O Defrag, PerfectDisk) and now my system will no longer boot. What happened?, it looks like your system will boot if the .bin file has been moved, but you will have to reboot again to have access to the FD pre-boot environment and other snapshots.

Nick

 

Thanks Nick - that's re- assuring because I panick if I can't boot. Now that's solved next question (before buying).

What happens if I re-install Windows forgetting to turn off the FD boot MBR?
Will my PC be unbootable?

What happens if I try and restore a True Image file and forget to turn off the FD boot MBR?
Will my PC be unbootable?

I get busy and sometimes just don't think ahead and if I forget I want to have some assurance that I can get back into my PC without calling a mechanic.

Thanks Nick

Dave

 

Thanks Pete.

So I have to turn of Process Guard and my Av too? Why is that?


I'm getting a bit confused about all the rules here. Anything else I need to know about FD? I'm thinking about buying it but I want to make sure it's going to be worth it and not cause me endless problems.

Dave

 

I still need to know why I have to turn off PG and other AV software. What happens if I don't?

Also can I re-install Windows and still keep my current snapshot? That's a real winner for me if I can do that. It sounds impossible but if it can be done I'm interested in hearing anyone's individual experiences.

Thanks

Dave

 

Assuming that you are formatting and reinstalling Windows, knowing that you will lose your .bin file, then I believe the Windows install resets your MBR. If it does not, then you can reset the MBR manually by booting from the XP CD, go into the recovery console, and use the "fixmbr" command.

When I image my drive, I usually include the MBR. Been a while since I used TI, but it should have that option.

Nick

 

Looks like Raxco has a procedure for doing it: How do I install a "fresh install" OS system?. I will try it out in the next day or two and see how it works.

Nick

 

Thanks Pete.

I use Diskeeper so how do I configure FD so that there are no conflicts with Diskeeper?

Dave

 

This from the Raxco website:

"If you are running Diskeeper or O&O Defrag, please contact the software manufacturer for assistance with excluding $ISR.BIN from being "moved" during a boot time defrag.

The Master Boot Record (MBR) code has been enhanced to handle the situation where $ISR.BIN has been moved - such as with an offline disk defragmenter or a drive imaging program. If $ISR.BIN is not found at the expected location, the system boots without the pre- boot screen. When the service starts, it will correct the location in the MBR and so the next boot will have the pre-boot as usual."

Acadia

 

OK so I ended up buying it but now can I do a defrag without being unable to reboot? I mean in Windows - not a boot time defrag (I never do those)

What happened was I got Perfect Disk upgrade yesterday from 6 to 7 using the code EVENBETTER and it cost me only $15. Then today I was toying with getting First Defense using the promotional code which would have cost me $35. But then, just about 5 minutes before buying I got an email from Raxco thanking me for buying Perfect Disk and offering me another promotional code but this time for 50% off!!! So WOW yeah I took it. First Defense only cost me $22.50!!

Now I want to defrag my hard drive using Diskeeper because it's faster for my purposes (in between 3d games) but does the MBR issue refer only to BOOT TIME defrag or Windows defrag also? Because if it only refers to boot time defrag then I can use Perfect Disk when I decide to do one of those (maybe next year) but for Windows defrags I find Diskeeper much faster.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Dave

 

Another question. I've made my 1st back-up. If I boot into that back-up and I uninstall programs will they be lost from the back-up?

Dave

 

At the time that you make a back up, that back up and your Primary Snapshot are IDENTICAL in every way except for the paging file, hibernate file and tmp files; those three items are NOT backed up (even the exceptions make sense).

When you boot back into your backup, that back up now becomes YOUR REAL c:drive. All snapshots carry equal weight, whichever one you are in IS your c:drive, all the other snapshots cease to exist as far as we're concerned. So if you boot back into your backup and delete a program, that program is deleted ONLY FOR THAT SNAPSHOT. Your primary snapshot would still have that program unless you then use the Backup snapshot to UPDATE your Primary snapshot.

You can use any snapshot to update any other snapshot. Once you use one snapshot to update another, they are now identical (minus the paging file, hibernate file, and tmp. files).

You got a good deal on those programs. By the way, Perfect Disk is especially designed to be perfectly compatible with FirstDefense, will not mess you up at all. Good luck and hope you enjoy.

Acadia

 

Thanks Acadia. Any tips or hints are most appreciated.

Dave

 

Right before I am going to make a major change in my system like installing a new program or even SP2, I bring one of my backups completely up to date using my Primary snapshot to update that particular backup. So now that particular backup and my Primary are identical.

Then using my Primary I can install the new program or whatever. This is what I did with SP2. Initially I had a minor problem with SP2 on my Primary. So I was able to go back to a backup and update my Primary using that backup and retrieve my pre-SP2 setup; it was literally as if SP2 had never been installed.

Another thing that I do quite often is simply use one of the backups to experiment with new programs. FirstDefense really does make you fearless. I’ve used backups to experiment with anti-Trojans and Firefox among others. That way your Primary is still kept in its pristine condition until you are satisfied that a new program will not hose you, but even if it does, you still have one of the backups you can fall back upon that you can use to update your Primary and get you back to "normal".

This is a “thinking man’s” program, not for dummies, because it is so flexible and you can do so much with it. Enjoy.

Acadia