Final 'patriot' vote

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by spy1, Nov 17, 2005.

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  1. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    Due to the fact that enough of us are not letting our feelings be known, guess what's happening? We need to ask that they say "NO" to the 'patriot' act re-authorization - period.

    (From my EFFector special action alert):

    The House of Representatives is expected to vote tomorrow on a
    bill to renew the USA PATRIOT Act. A Senate vote is
    expected before the week it out. Now is the time to call
    your senator and representatives and say "No!" to PATRIOT
    renewal.

    The final conference process for PATRIOT reauthorization has
    gone very badly for those attempting to reform the bill.
    Growing concerns in the House, and key compromises agreed in
    the Senate have all been ignored. Indeed, the draft bill
    obtained by EFF actually makes some PATRIOT powers worse:

    * "National Security Letters", which the Washington Post
    reveals have been used to spy on tens of thousands of
    ordinary Americans, have been strengthened. New criminal
    penalties have been added for NSL recipients who try to speak
    about their experience.

    * The draft bill jettisons the four-year time limits on
    several PATRIOT powers,replacing them with longer, seven-year
    "sunset" clauses. All other PATRIOT powers that were set to
    expire this year will be renewed without any time limit.

    * Some politicians, confident that no one would dare vote
    against PATRIOT, have added their own irrelevant amendments:
    piggybacking other unpopular reforms onto this terrible bill.

    This bill flouts the growing concern in Congress with the
    documented abuses of the prior version of the Patriot Act and
    the flawed process of PATRIOT reauthorization. They're growing
    restless on Capitol Hill: one more call could be enough to
    start a rebellion in both Houses.

    Time is short: sources say the PATRIOT vote will be rushed
    through in the next few days. Please call your representative
    and senators now. Ask them vote "no" on the PATRIOT
    reauthorization act.


    Please visit our Action Center at the link below. It will
    give you the phone numbers to call, and suggestions on what
    to tell your elected official.
    https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?alertId=187&pg=makeACall

    Learn more about the bill, and its new problems, see:
    http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004166.php

    Pete


    *A.C.L.U Alert, also: http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=19407&c=206

    C.D.T statement: http://cdt.org/
     
  2. PhiloVance

    PhiloVance Registered Member

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  3. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    From http://blog.reformthepatriotact.org/

    Today the Administration’s grand plan to make virtually all of the Patriot Act permanent -- and extend some of the most contentious provisions for seven years -- hit, shall we say, a snag.

    Last night, some Senators tried to trumpet yesterday’s tentative deal citing "MAJOR CHANGES" to protect our privacy. Today that claim ran into a huge brick wall called reality.

    Some of the changes are too cute by half. The latest proposals would still allow the government to get all sorts of personal records via "national security letters," or NSLs for short. NSLs are just pieces of paper that the FBI can issue without any court involvement at all, demanding records from “financial institutions,” which are defined so broadly they include businesses like casinos, boat dealerships and pawnbrokers.

    Some Patriot Act supporters thought they could pull a fast one with NSLs, proposing a “fix” that would generously allow you to file a challenge to the NSL's secrecy provision. One little hitch: The government would also get a new power to block the challenge by "certifying" to the court that lifting the your gag would threaten national security, or interfere with diplomatic relations or a criminal investigation. The court is not even allowed to look at whether their claim is true. It is required to accept the government's certification as "conclusive."

    The current proposal would also make it a federal crime to intentionally disclose an NSL. If you go to your local newspaper to protest a government fishing expedition, you could be facing hard time. Even a a reporter writing about it could face a Hobson's choice -- go to jail or reveal their source.


    These provisions are hardly fixes. But supporters of the deal genuinely thought they would be able to dress this pig up, put some lipstick on it, and bring it to the ball. It didn't work. Not only the ACLU, but our allies across the political spectrum -- all the privacy groups, Bob Barr, and the many conservative and libertarian groups that have joined with us and said "No way."

    More importantly, Republican and Democratic senators -- including leaders like Russ Feingold (D-WI), John Sununu (R-NH), Dick Durbin (D-MI) and Larry Craig (R-ID) have called the deal "unacceptable." They’re using fighting words -- saying that, if the bill doesn't get fixed, they are prepared to filibuster.

    So we're still in the game. The report that triggered a floor vote was due to have been filed on Monday, and here we are on Thursday and guess what?

    There's a window right now, and we know lots of folks are calling and letting their member of Congress and Senators know that this deal is not OK. This is the most crucial time for members to be hearing from their constituents. So let's keep those phones ringing off the hook!

    http://www.cdt.org/publications/policyposts/2005/24 <---IMPORTANT TO READ!

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/17/AR2005111700844.html

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/16/patriot.act.ap/index.html

    Three Republican Senators, three Democratic Senators and every single privacy-and-freedom-loving group in the country is up-in-arms about this latest 'patriot' act development..

    Why aren't you?

    This really isn't hard, people. Just find your Senators' and representatives names and contact info here:

    http://www.theorator.com/senate.html

    http://www.theorator.com/government/house.html

    and call (or FAX - anything else isn't going to get heard in time) both your Senators and your Representatives with this simple message:

    "Vote NO on the current Patriot Act re-authorization as written - even if it means letting all of the "sunset provisions" sunset!"
     
  4. JimIT

    JimIT Registered Member

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    Everyone,

    This does affect your privacy if you live in the good 'ol USA. Whatever your political views, it's worth taking the time to look into.
     
  5. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    For those of you who missed it, here's where we are with this thing:

    http://blog.reformthepatriotact.org/

    All involved politician's have gone home for two weeks for the Thanksgiving Day holiday - without any action having been taken.

    I'll be back on this one when it lights up again. Pete
     
  6. aka:snowman

    aka:snowman Former Poster

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    PETE

    .....got you some big time help......have convinced a U.S. Senator to side with you on your quest........so look and expect special hearing on certain issues you have raised on a certain "ACT".........an early Christmas gift to you my old friend..............lets hope it helps. Wont mention any names in public.




    Warm ragards


    # this was also posted in Ten Forward.....hope you see it Pete
     
  7. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,177083,00.html

    Justice Dept. Defends FBI Investigative Tool

    WASHINGTON — The Justice Department issued a broad defense Tuesday of an investigative tool used by the FBI to compel businesses to turn over customer information without a court order or grand jury subpoena.

    Questions about the use of National Security Letters have become caught up in the debate over renewal of the anti-terror Patriot Act, which has been delayed by ideologically diverse lawmakers who want to ensure there are checks on investigative powers. More than a dozen provisions of the law, which was passed in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, expire at the end of the year.

    NSLs, which can be used in terrorism and espionage investigations, require telephone companies, Internet service providers, banks, credit bureaus and other businesses to produce highly personal records about their customers or subscribers.

    While most information about the letters is classified, including the number of times they have been used, Assistant Attorney General William E. Moschella sent the chairmen of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees a 10-page letter rebutting criticisms aired in an article three weeks ago in The Washington Post.

    The article, citing sources, said the FBI issues more than 30,000 NSLs a year, up from a few hundred prior to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Moschella said the number was among several "erroneous claims" in the article, but he offered no alternative.

    Justice Department officials previously gave lawmakers closed-door briefings on the security letters, where they shared the number.

    Also false, according to Moschella, is the claim that the FBI uses NSLs to spy on law-abiding Americans.

    But he acknowledged that some people whose records are produced "may not be terrorists or spies or associated with terrorists or spies."

    Lisa Graves, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union, said that despite Moschella's admission, the government is allowed to retain that information. "I think the American people would prefer that there be some sort of connection and if not, then the records ought to be destroyed," Graves said.

    A tentative agreement between House and Senate negotiators to renew the Patriot Act contains several provisions involving NSLs, including requirements that the Justice Department report publicly on the number of NSLs and that recipients be allowed to consult a lawyer.

    The Bush administration contends that such consultation already is allowed, citing at least two court challenges to NSLs. However, in a letter obtained by the ACLU under the Freedom of Information Act and posted on its Web site, the FBI prohibits the recipient "from disclosing to any person that the FBI has sought or obtained access to information or records under these provisions."

    And so it begins again. Pete
     
  8. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    There are serious concerns abouit new antiterrorism laws here in Oz also.

    We dont even have a Bill of Rights.

    The Govt here has been trying to push through draconian laws that I believe threaten the stability our little corner.

    the So called "anti sedition" laws are truly frightening.

    There is finally some resistance building to the mad rush to get these passed before Xmas.

    >>all it takes for evil to happen is for good men to do nothing<<<

    Regards.
     
  9. Marja

    Marja Honestly, I'm not a bot!!

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    ACLU Bulletin-

    More info on the Patriot Act-

    The effort to renew the Patriot Act is not going according to the White House script. Two weeks ago the Administration attempted to force through a
    reauthorization bill that would make most of the provisions of the Patriot Act permanent and make other provisions even worse.

    We were told that this bill was a done deal and a vote was going to take place at any moment. Fortunately the White House did not anticipate the resolve of Americans.... who refuse to sacrifice our most cherished civil liberties.

    Keep the pressure on Congress by calling today. Go to

    http://action.aclu.org/

    Thanks to your phone calls, a bipartisan group of Senators has publicly rebuked the Bush Administration and blocked the vote.

    The “civil liberties six” -- John Sununu (R-NH), Larry Craig (R-ID), Lisa Murkowsky (R-AK), Dick Durbin (D-IL), Russ Feingold (D-WI) and Ken Salazar (D-CO) -- are demanding that real reforms be a part of any Patriot Act
    reauthorization bill. These Senators and other supporters of freedom in Congress must be commended for defending our civil liberties in the face of insurmountable pressure.

    It should be noted that Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA), who as chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee oversaw Patriot Act reauthorization in the Senate, also appeared at the press conference where the civil liberties six made their stand. Unfortunately that same day Senator Specter reversed himself and said he will sign onto the conference report. At this point Senator Specter remains a pivotal swing vote and calls to his office are urgently needed.

    With the reauthorization vote now on hold, the Bush Administration is undertaking a fierce campaign to get the bill that it wants and is pressuring the Senators to drop their opposition.

    It is critical that you continue to call your Members of Congress and tell them to stand fast against any Patriot Act reauthorization bill that lacks real reforms to protect our civil liberties. Call now!

    Backers of the current proposals are touting the "major” changes it makes to the Patriot Act, but in reality these changes are just window dressing hiding the absence of any real reforms in the bill.

    They are trying to twist discussion about real Patriot Act reform into a phony debate about the length of "sunset" (or expiration) clauses.

    But the issue here isn't whether the Patriot Act’s most sweeping powers are extended for four years or seven years.

    The real issue here is whether Congress is going to give the Bush Administration a blank check to investigate and keep records about ordinary Americans who have no connection to terrorism.

    This relates to everything we have come to believe as OUR FREEDOM- Please think and DO something...email or call your representatives!


    To read more about the debate going on - check this site out!

    http://blog.reformthepatriotact.org/

    Thanks for your time..

    Marja:cool:
     
  10. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    Yes, I'm quite sure there is a tremendous amount of pressure being brought to bear on all of the Senators and Representatives involved.

    After all, the Administration is running out of time on this one.

    No one has been able to explain to me why all the provisions that have the "sunset" clause simply can't remain "sunsettable" with the four-year renewal clause left as is. (Surely it couldn't be because the government wants to make sure that these powers can never be taken back away from them, right?).

    So - using the http://www.theorator.com/senate.html and http://www.theorator.com/government/house.html links for contact info, I have FAX'ed the following message to my Reps (all of them - and I'll call them Monday):

    Please let all "sunset provisions" REMAIN sunsettable at 4 year intervals!

    As your constituent, I can come up with no good reason NOT to let all the "sunset provisions for the 'patriot' act REMAIN "sunsettable" at four-year intervals - especially given the Administrations' opposition to letting even you know how these powers are being used - and whom they're being used AGAINST.

    Furthermore, I am totally opposed to 'patriot' act expansion - of ANY kind.

    This means I do not want:

    (1) the F.B.I to be given "administrative subpoena power"

    (2) any additional law or "regulation" that would allow jail sentences or fines for failure to comply with a National Security Letter

    (3) in-accurate, faulty "secret watch-lists" being combined for use to deprive legitimate, innocent Americans citizens of the right to fly or purchase firearms.

    (4) "DNA Dragnets"

    (5) the F.C.C or the C.D.C doing the government's "dirty work" for them via "regulations".

    If anything, what I would like to see come out of this committee (in addition to the above) is stronger checks-and-balances on the use of these powers; effective over-sight and subpoena power given to the people who are supposed to be watching the watchers'!

    This will more than likely be looked back on as the most critical time in our history as a Republic. There will be a "before" and "after" effect felt far into the future.

    Please don't fail us now.
    (Signed)

    (Feel free to c&p that if that's how your sentiments on this run). Pete
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2005
  11. securityx

    securityx Registered Member

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    Amen.

    Absolutely.

    Probably more so than any of us can possibly imagine. One of the best columns on this is from Ron Paul written about a year ago.
    Thanks Spy1 for another great post. The time is definitely now!
     
  12. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    An excellent column indeed - even more so since it comes from the current REPUBLICAN Representative of the TEXAS 14th District.

    (Hope someone besides you and me are reading this and acting, securityx. BTW - did I mention that I had sent that exact same FAX to the following?

    Specter (PA)------ 202-228-1229
    Hatch (UT)-------- 202-224-6331
    Kyl (AZ)---------- 202-224-2207
    Sessions (AL)----- 202-224-3149
    Dewine (OH)------- 202-224-6519
    Roberts (KS)------ 202-224-3514
    Leahy (VT)-------- 202-224-3479
    Rockefeller (WV)-- 202-224-7665
    Levin (MI)-------- 202-224-1388
    Kennedy (MA)------ 202-224-2417

    Nadler (NY)--------202-225-6923
    Sensenbrenner (WI)-202-225-3190
    Hoekstra (MI)------202-226-0779
    Coble (NC)---------202-225-8611
    Smith (TX)---------202-225-8628
    Gallegy (CA)-------202-225-1100
    Goodlatte (VA)-----202-225-9681
    Chabot (OH)--------202-225-3012
    Conyers (MI)-------202-225-0072
    Berman (CA)--------202-225-3196
    Boucher (VA)-------202-225-0442
    Harman (CA)--------202-225-7290

    because it would seem to me that letting your opinion be known to the people who are actually working on what gets sent out to vote on are the people we need to be talking to right now - that's their FAX numbers). Pete
     
  13. securityx

    securityx Registered Member

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    Pete, Is your fax machine smoking from all that work? That's one great list and an easy resource to use. I am going to use it myself and send a similar letter. I already have sent one to the committee chairs and a couple of the "key" members, but they are all really key at this point. Thanks for the list. Very impressive action, Pete. Man it is nice to see people not just talking but doing something!
    sx
    -----------------------
    PRIVACY MATTERS!
    www.themissingamendment.org
     
  14. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    sx - <g> No, it hasn't burned up yet. FAX'es are great, really - they only cost about .07 apiece to send and they actually get read (emails may get read eventually, too, but "volume-wise", they're overwhelming for most government officials staffs).

    So, if we want to make an impact, either phone calls or FAX'es are the main ways to go. That isn't to say that you shouldn't email (or use a Rep's "Contact" form) to express your views - by all means - use what you've got to make your views known. In an email, your "Subject" line has to definitely be to the point (in case they don't have time to read the whole thing).

    I find it - bizarre? ironic? fitting? - that Dec. 15 is the "Bill of Rights Day" - and that Congress re-convenes on the 16th (which is why it's so important to let them know how you feel before then) to hash this out.

    It's going to be quite interesting to see how much difference we can make.

    And how it turns out. Pete
     
  15. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-12-08-patriot-act_x.htm

    By Kathy Kiely, USA TODAY
    "WASHINGTON — Republican House and Senate negotiators reached a tentative deal Thursday to extend the USA Patriot Act, the sweeping anti-terrorism law passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

    The White House endorsed the compromise, but a bipartisan group of senators attacked it as an assault on civil liberties. A heated debate appears likely when the measure reaches the full Senate and House as early as next week.

    ....Leahy called for a 90-day extension of the existing law to allow more time for negotiations. "This is a bill that goes into your right of privacy over and over," he said."

    What you should be asking yourself right now is - what kind of pressures must the White House have applied to get this thing through the committee, given the stout opposition of many of the committee's leading members to the bill as proposed.

    Another thing you should be asking yourself is - why is the government so hell-bent on having it their way, regardless of the public's wishes in regard to the acts' provisions?

    The final thing you should be asking yourself is - What am I doing about this?

    Go here: http://action.aclu.org/reformthepatriotact/ and use the "Take Action!" link (even if you've used it before);

    Go here: http://action.eff.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ADV_homepage and do the same thing

    or compose your own FAX or email, telephone message, find your Reps here and here:

    http://www.theorator.com/senate.html

    http://www.theorator.com/government/house.html and

    contact them.

    Email your friends about this - point anyone and everyone on other sites that you frequent to this thread - get the word out.

    Because if you don't, we're all going to irrevocably lose. Pete
     
  16. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    If telephoning or FAX'ing are absolutley not an option you can use to make your views known on this (and given the fact that the A.C.L.U's "Action" link is now only urging people to call their Representatives), then you can email your Reps directly using this link:

    http://www.demaction.org/dia/organizations/PRCB/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=1681

    I urge you to use it in addition to any other methods employed, also. Pete
     
  17. Snowie

    Snowie Guest

    Spent several hours in Washington today asking opinions.......an was not at all encouraged by the comments received.......the pressure to pass this "thing" is enormous...................the People best wake up real fast an make themselfs heard.
     
  18. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    The House is expected to vote Tuesday on the extensions to the Patriot Act, the Senate on Thursday.

    I wonder if everyone realizes that this single issue ( 'patriot' act re-authorization and strengthening) isn't merely another skirmish in the battle to protect our civil liberties, privacy and freedom from un-warranted government intrusion into our lives - it's the entire outcome of that particular "war".

    We stand or fall (the concept and soul of "America", and what it means to be an "American") according to the outcome.

    It's a singular point in history where your voice (and only your voice) can make all the difference in the world to what kind of nation your children and your grandchildren grow up in.

    I think I'll just leave you alone and let you think about that. Pete
     
  19. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    On a final note, I would ask you to do this:

    Email everyone in your address book with the link to this thread, so that they'll at least have an opportunity to give input on this.

    If they need a sample FAX/email, point them back up to post #10 (https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=623331&postcount=10 ).

    We have less than 48 hours left to make a difference - and now it's up to you. Pete
     
  20. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    Okay, telephone calls are all that're left now that will make a difference in time.

    Go here: https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?alertId=339&pg=makeACall&JServSessionIdr004=kajp4q40g6.app27a

    fill out the form at the bottom completely and call the numbers you'll be given.

    All you have to say is this:

    "Please tell the Senator to vote against 'patriot' act re-authorization, against cloture and to support the filibuster that's fixing to happen"

    That's all that's required to get the message across. Ask for whoever's name that answers the phone and have them read back to you what you said and make sure they get your name and address. Pete
     
  21. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    http://www.epic.org/

    EPIC Documents Show FBI "Bypass" of Oversight Office
    EPIC held a press conference on Capitol Hill today to release PATRIOT Act documents obtained in EPIC V. DOJ, a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. The documents included internal e-mails (pdf) and memoranda (part 1 | part 2, both pdf) in which FBI officials expressed frustration that the Office of Intelligence Policy and Review, an internal check on FBI authority, had not approved applications for Section 215 orders, the so-called "library records" provision. A 2004 memo (pdf) refers to "recent changes" allowing the FBI to "bypass" the Office of Intelligence and Policy Review. The FBI is under court order to provide further information to EPIC about the Patriot Act sunset provisions. EPIC's statement on the disclosure and the significance for Patriot Act renewal is available here (pdf). For more information, see EPIC's PATRIOT FOIA page. (Dec. 13) (Live links on link at top).

    And listen - I'm not seeing anything on CSPAN or CSPAN2 about the 'patriot' act re-authorizations Senate hearing being held today. This would seemingly be confirmed by the fact that C.D.T is still urging people to call their Reps: http://cdt.org/publications/policyposts/2005/25 - but I could be wrong. Pete
     
  22. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    My bad - it's being debated on C-SPAN2 right now.
     
  23. securityx

    securityx Registered Member

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    Pete is right again. It's not melodrama. To those in the USA, this is about nothing less than FREEDOM.

    Read this from respected former Congressman Bob Barr in a recent article:

    "Basically, as long as you smile when you demand to see somebody's ID at gunpoint sitting on a bus I guess it's OK for the government, that's sort of the way they operate. It can be a totalitarian type regime."

    "I think it's a real danger where we have the military becoming involved in all sorts of domestic matters and we have the government being able to seize very private personal records on people without any suspicion that they've done anything wrong. This is a dramatic turn of events that has accelerated greatly since 9/11."

    Barr made comments very similar to those of current Republican Congressman Ron Paul in stating that natural disasters could be used by the government as a pretext to abolish posse comitatus.

    "If we have the military involved whenever there's a windstorm, rain or tornado then what we are doing is that we are undermining the entire basis on what our constitutional representative democratic form of government was founded."

    Barr said that legislation like the Patriot Act and its imminent re-authorization and expansion were more of a threat to the American way of life than any terrorist attack.

    Please, take the time to read his entire comments:
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2005/111205totalitariandanger.htm

    Nothing has ever threatened our privacy, and freedom, as much as this single proposal.
    Call. Write. Fax. Do what you can......while it's still legal to speak out against your government.
     
  24. JimIT

    JimIT Registered Member

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  25. controler

    controler Guest

    From what I read, the bill was signed today.

    It is kinda wierd how most people here in the USA are letting their rights dissapear or should I say ammended?

    During the biggy war WWII, I don't remember the government trying to take our rights away. In fact the worked that much harder to secure our rights.

    Taking rights away only allows the terrorists to win. Isn't that what terror is all about? Trying to keep the public in fear?

    I dought this is another Catholic curch plot LOL

    At least it isn't a witch hunt. That would be where they hunted down innocent people and killed them. How stupid the educated and powerful were during those times ey? Oh wait, we are civilized now, we don't hunt down people like dictators do in this day and age.
    Again, how about dropping two atom bombs on the innocent people of Japan?
    How about not wanting North Korea to build nukes but at same time letting Iran do so because the Russians built the first reactor for them.
    We can go on and on.


    Look at WIlders, they never used to allowed posting politics before.

    Rambling controler
     
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