Figure this Out

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by DVD+R, Jul 19, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,979
    Location:
    The Antipodes
    I installed FD-ISR 3.20 build 202 on a clean installation of Vista with nothing further installed but Vista itself, and this left 286 GB of Free space on my Hard Drive. Then I created a Secondary snapshot with FD-ISR which took up an extra 11 GB =275 GB Free Space.

    Next I created an empty snapshot so I could install XP onto it, but this is where the fun started: :blink:

    First it said there was only 131072 MB Free on the Partition, and didnt show the Vista partition :blink: Secondly on trying to install I got this: :blink:

    the partition is either too full, damaged, not formatted, or formatted with an incompatible file system. To continue installing Windows, Setup must format this partition
    C: Partition1 [Unknown] 131072 MBR <131071 MB Free>

    My Drive shows the space available as 305244 MB or 298.1 GB when I install a fresh copy of Vista.... What on earth is going on with this o_O :(
     
  2. SD Scooter

    SD Scooter Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Posts:
    8
    I have a feeling that you went sort of down the path that I did last week when I messed up my computer. I don't think FDISR likes to have WinXP installed after you already have Vista installed.

    I do know that it works the other way around though. Having XP installed...and then putting on Vista. I guess you could switch the snapshots around for primary after that.
     
  3. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    DVD+R,
    In theory, it should work properly and if it doesn't, you should report this to the support.

    According the manual you can use FDISR as a multi-bootable system and you can install these OS's in new snapshots :
    1. Win2000pro.
    2. WinXPhome
    3. WinXPpro
    4. WinVISTA
    and it doesn't matter in which sequence you install these OS's.

    If this creates problems, something is wrong.
    Everything meets the system requirements ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2007
  4. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,979
    Location:
    The Antipodes
    Yes everything meets system requirements, I have the Horizon Data Sys Version which I purchased from their website 3.20 build and it runs fine having just a Primary and Secondary Snap, which is what I have at the moment. Someone mentioned in another post, that I may not have XP SP2 but the Original XP, which appears to be the case, So I'll get a copy of XP SP2 and see what happens afterwards with that route :)
     
  5. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    DVD+R,
    Straight from the Help-file of FDISR v3.20 :
    So it clearly says that you can have 3 operating systems, each installed in a separate empty snapshot and nothing is mentioned about Service Packs, which means to me that everything is allowed regarding Service Packs.

    I wonder what they mean by "With care". Maybe you didn't care enough. LOOOL
    I don't have winVISTA. I only have winXPproSP2-CD and a seven-year-old win2000pro-CD. So I can't help you any further. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2007
  6. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,979
    Location:
    The Antipodes
    Thanks ErikAlbert :) I finally got it working yesterday, or rather I would have had I not when I got to the XP installation point where it asks to enter the Serial Key, and I forgot what it was, and couldnt find where my XP jewel case was with the serial number, so I was stuck at that point, and it wouldnt let me boot back to a previous snap, as FD-ISR wasnt installed on the XP yet :rolleyes: and having disabled Windows System Restore I was having to reinstall Vista All again :rolleyes: :p


    News Flash!... It Appears its Impossible to create an empty snapshot, and install Vista, and XP Snapshotes regardless of which is the Primary Installation :(

    I Clean installed XP by formatting the C: drive, and did a fresh install of XP Pro SP2. Then installed FD-ISR. Then I created an empty snapshot and Named it Windows Vista. Then I booted to this snapshot, and proceeded to install Vista. Vista told me the upgrade had been disabled and clean install was the only option. Selecting the same partition that Vista was installed on, Vista prodeeded to inform me That the partition might contain a existing operating system, and If so, Vista would move this to a folder named Windows.old. and I could acces the files but no longer use the old operating system.
    Proceeding with this, and on completion of Vista, and reinstalling FD-ISR, I notice the Windows Vista Snapshot is empty, and The Primary snapshot now Vista itself, NOT! XP:blink: OK so it didnt work :rolleyes: So I format again, and this time install Vista first, and follow the fore mentioned again. This time I get the message from Windows XP Setup, after chosing to leave the file system intact, That to Continue I needed to delete the existing partition, or Choose another Folder to install XP :blink: the directory it gave me was \WINDOWS
    I've not encountered anything like this before so I abandoned the installation :rolleyes: Seems to me That XP/Vista-Vista/XP isnt possible with FD-ISR :(


    Newslash! Update... This is what I read on the FD-ISR Help files, but I have no clue what its on about :p So anyone Care to elaborate?

    The Bootstrap and Vista
    The first 16 sectors of the boot partition is the Bootstrap. The Bootstrap loads and starts the Windows operating system loader. The Bootstrap for Windows Vista is different from the Bootstrap for Windows 2000/XP. The Vista Bootstrap runs BOOTMGR while the 2000/XP Bootstrap runs NTLDR.

    Since all FirstDefense-ISR snapshots share the same partition, the Bootstrap must be the same. However, there is a solution. If there is a copy of NTLDR named BOOTMGR, then the Vista Bootstrap will work for 2000/XP

    FirstDefense-ISR automates the process and will use the correct Bootstrap and make the copy of NTLDR as needed. Note that the copy of NTLDR named BOOTMGR is not deleted from the 2000/XP snapshot for safety's sake
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2007
  7. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,979
    Location:
    The Antipodes
    So is anyone brave enough to tell me how to do this bootstrap thingy? I want to boot to an empty snapshot and install XP, but apparently I cant unless the bootstraps are the same o_O
     
  8. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,055
    I am a chicken. I keep Vista in a separate image. When feeling masochistic, I just restore it, and play, and then restore XP back again.
     
  9. Coff

    Coff Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Posts:
    53
    Location:
    UK
    I've got the following snapshots on C. XP Home, XP Pro, Win2K, Vista Home Premium, Vista Ultimate. The primary operating system was XP Home and, from there, I created empty snapshots to install the other operating systems. The bootmgr file is created automatically and is a hidden system file in the root of C on XP Home. There is also an ntldr file in C on XP Home. I haven't checked to see what's in the root directory of the other operating systems. So FirstDefense should take care of everything automatically.

    The only difference after installing vista into an empty snapshot is this. If you create another empty snapshot from XP and then boot to it with a view to installing another operating system you would normally have got the message that ntldr is missing. Now I get the message that bootmgr is missing. Also, when updating an archive there is a reference to bootsav or bootsave in the logs - just cleared my logs this afternoon as the vista ones take up a lot of disk space - I'm not sure whether there was a reference to bootsav or bootsave prior to installing vista.

    Also, after creating the empty snapshot, are you booting to the empty snapshot without putting the vista dvd into the drive? i.e. you might be tempted to put the dvd into the drive whilst still in XP and then boot straight to the dvd. The instructions that I followed said to create the empty snapshot, boot to it, get the message that ntldr (or bootmgr) is missing. Put the cd or dvd in the drive then use the three fingered salute to boot again but press F12 (in my case) to boot from the dvd.

    The only other thing I can think of at the moment which may be causing your problem is anchored data.
     
  10. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Posts:
    1,710
    Wow, I just installed Vista Ultimate in a empty snapshot (on XP) in FD-ISR a few days ago and I never encountered what you have.

    When I installed Vista there were some choices at the begining of the install and I chose the custom and it worked fine.

    All I know is a lot of people are running into problems if they have Vista installed first and then they install XP. No one really knows what is causing this at this point but they are telling everyone to install XP first.

    Hope you get it sorted.
     
  11. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Posts:
    5,634
    Location:
    U.S.A. (South)
    There are plenty of issues courtesy Vista but many are nonetheless committed to it. Me and my camp will hold out for Windows Neptune when it ever gets released.

    That being said FD-ISR is just simply remarkable and likely always will be. Once a developer hits pay dirt with a Super-App like FD-ISR you can't help but admire their efforts since something of this magnitude only comes along once in a millinium.

    All appreciation goes out to LeapFrog and Team for fashioning such a dependable app.
     
  12. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,979
    Location:
    The Antipodes
    Ok I need to know where I'm going wrong :( this is the path I took:

    1: Clean installation of XP PRO SP2 on a freshly formatted partition)
    2: Installed FD-ISR Immediately after installation
    3: Created Empty snapshot, Loaded Windows Vista into CD Drive and rebooted to Empty snapshot
    4: Chose boot from CD-DVD ROM, let Vista load, entered seial number,and chose Custom Advanced,as upgrade was disabled,and Custom Advanced was only option.
    5: C: Partition reads 298.1GB - 294GB Free (XP Installed on here)
    6: Click next to move on and message box says.. The partition you are trying to install on contains another operating system, If you continue Windows will move the existing sysem to Winows.old, you can access your files,but will not be able to use the Old System.

    Thats as far as I can get :( If I continue it removes XP to an old folder,and I cant access anything,and the Empty snapshot is still empty,and the Once Primary XP snapshot has beeen replaced with Vista, and XP is no longer accessable :(

    If you know how to install Vista on FD-ISR then I'd appreciate the help :(
     
  13. sukarof

    sukarof Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Posts:
    1,714
    Location:
    Stockholm Sweden
    Well, thats about it I dont see that you are doing anything wrong. I have done the same as you DVD+R but Vista installed properly in the empty snapshot. It seems like you are not booting into the empty snasphot but in to the original snapshot of XP. That is strange...
    Not that I know if this has anything to do with it, but do you choose to reboot to the empty snapshot from FDISR GUI in windows XP or in the preboot screen? (after you hit F1)
    I dont think that should matter, but when I installed Vista directly after I made the empty snapshot I chose the reboot from right click "boot to this snapshot" then the computer rebooted to the empty snapshot and, if I recall right, the Vista DVD took (dont remember if I had to hit a key to boot from DVD) over and started the installation into the empty snapshot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2007
  14. tradetime

    tradetime Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Posts:
    1,000
    Location:
    UK
    Just a thought here, out of my depth with Vista as I don't run it, but, try booting to the empty snapshot before inserting the Vista cd. You should then get some sort of error message about NT Loader Missing. or some such, then insert the cd and reboot, it may be that the cd is interupting the jump to the new snapshot and you are in fact ending up in the XP one, just a thought.
     
  15. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,979
    Location:
    The Antipodes
    Wel Thanks to you both sukarof and tradetime :) I'll endeavour to try those options now,and I'll be back to update what happens :)
     
  16. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Posts:
    1,710
    This is exactly what I did.

    Once I was in the empty snapshot I inserted the Vista DVD and rebooted and Vista installed.
     
  17. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,979
    Location:
    The Antipodes
    Hey I Did It! :D and sukarof you were right :cool: It seems the FD-ISR booting to Empty snapshot was loading to my XP snapshot when I booted useing the FD-ISR GUI, and I booted to the Empty snapshot useing F1 like you sugested,and the Vista installation completed without a fuss :D I now have Vista Ultimate installed :cool: so I now have 4 snapshots, Primary and Secondary in XP and Vista Ultimate and a Copy of Vista Ultimate. Ive yet to configure and install stuff in the Vista snaps, but I might do the Same again this time with Vista Yltimate 64Bit now, So I'll have all 3 Systems up and running :D Thanks for the help people, I was nearly going bald trying to get it working :ninja:
     
  18. sukarof

    sukarof Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Posts:
    1,714
    Location:
    Stockholm Sweden
    Good to see you got it sorted, but it really shouldnt matter if you do the reboot from windows gui or through the preboot screen. But hey, you got it working and thats the main thing :thumb:


    *edit* It really shouldnt matter, but obviously it does matter from where you boot to the empty snapshot. :blink: se my post below
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2007
  19. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,979
    Location:
    The Antipodes
    Shame :( I see 64Bit systems arnt supported by FD-ISR, maybe a future relese will fix this up ?
     
  20. sukarof

    sukarof Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Posts:
    1,714
    Location:
    Stockholm Sweden
    I couldnt figure out why you DVD-R had this problem of not booting into the empty snapshot when rebooting from the FDISR GUI and having the CD in the drive. So I decided to do it my self and the same thing happened to me o_O Vista swallowed XP into the windows.old folder and made it useless.
    Sorry for claiming that I have done the same steps as you, its 7 months since I installed Vista in FDISR and I am an old man ;) Obviously I must have booted to the empty snapshot from preboot menu :(

    I dont know if it is a bug or by design.
     
  21. Coff

    Coff Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Posts:
    53
    Location:
    UK
  22. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,979
    Location:
    The Antipodes

    Thas all very well and good, but as I and sukarof have found, this procedure doesnt work :ninja: you have to boot from F1 in the Startup Screen :blink:

    Edit: after reading some posts I've forgot what the Hell I logged on for in the first place, I must be an Old Man like sukarof as I'm In my 47th yr *puppy*
     
  23. Coff

    Coff Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Posts:
    53
    Location:
    UK
    Sorry, but that isn't correct. You don't have to choose F1 on bootup. You simply boot to the empty snapshot from your current snapshot, receive the ntldr, or bootmgr, is missing message, then insert your dvd.
     
  24. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Posts:
    1,979
    Location:
    The Antipodes
    Correct or Not :cautious: which in our case it is :cautious: as you can See from the previous postings both I and sukarof had issues booting to an Empty snapshot in FD-ISR's GUI, and it only worked through the F1 Key on startup. I hasten to say this isnt related to Raxco or Leapfrog Versions individually, as I had the same issues with both Vendors builds :blink:
     
  25. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Posts:
    1,710
    I agree! That's what I did.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.