FDISR vs RollbackRx (or similar)

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by kneighbour, Mar 19, 2007.

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  1. kneighbour

    kneighbour Registered Member

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    I have used RollbackRx for some time and it is great. There are a few small problems, but it has saved my bacon a number of times.

    I have only recently discovered FD-ISR, and I have just loaded on the beta for a quick demo. My first impression is not terribly favorable, but I see so many good comments about it in this forum that I am wondering if I am missing some crucial point.

    I am currently doing a Secondary Snapshot, which it tells me will take another 3 hours. This is totally unacceptable - and I will certainly abort that before it finishes (unless it gets faster). What is the use of a snapshot process that takes 3 hours? I can do a TI10 total backup in much less time. If it takes more than a few minutes (let us say, 5-10 minutes), then I would be better off using True Image 10.

    Rollback does a snapshot in a couple of seconds (literally). It also does a restore in a couple of minutes (with a reboot). TI 10 actually does not take much longer.

    So - am I missing some great feature here - or is this snapshot time atypical? I thought that the whole point was to be faster than imaging software?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2007
  2. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    kneighbour,
    Peter will answer your question, because he knows BOTH softwares and his technical knowledge is better than mine.
     
  3. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Three hours!! Good grief. I can create a new snapshot from scratch, about 5.15gig of data, in 12-15 minutes.

    Acadia
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Kneighbour

    Three hours does seem long, unless you have an a real time AV scanner on. Rollback when it creates a new snapshot, just creates pointers so it is almost immediate. FDISR creates a complete copy of your c: drive. There are ways you can speed up uses of FDISR. See my posts in a couple of the FDISR threads about how I use it.

    True imaging can give you the same thing, but as fast as Shadow Protect is when I image, I also restore test the image, so the total process takes about 10 minutes. I can do stuff with FDISR a lot quicker.

    Why FDISR over Rollback. For me reliablity. FDISR just stores the files as a file when you are working. Rollback passes all disk activity thru a kernel level driver, and it keeps track of the sectors as opposed to windows. Early on there were problems. I've found bugs in FDISR, but they have never have actually cost me data. Also FDISR has the archive function. Rollback is supposed to release a new version that has that, but I'd really want to see it put thru the ringer before trusting it.

    Pete
     
  5. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    Hi Peter, in any way 3 hours is radiculous. Sure there is something wrong on his system.

    Hi kneighbour, what is the size of ur C drive and data over it?
    I will suggest u to send a mail to the support. It,s not a normal functioning of FDISR in any way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2007
  6. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I wonder about that too. Maybe he has a harddisk of 750gb with used space = 250gb and forgot to anchor My Documents.
     
  7. kneighbour

    kneighbour Registered Member

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    Nothing is anchored yet. I have only just fired it up.

    My snapshot sizes are 18 gigs. This is on a brand new Vista system (ie fairly clean). It is also a fairly fast hardware platform (ie brand new SATA2 drive, Pentium 4, 3 gig CPU desktop, 1 Gig RAM). I went to bed at 1 hour elapsed, when it said it had 2 hours to go. I do not know how long the final snapshot time took.

    I am making another snapshot now (of the same primary), and it says 1 hour 40 minutes to go. I have not rebooted or done anything, so that seems a bit strange also. But even a full image using True Image does not take anything like that much time.

    I have very little data to anchor as I try not to use my C drive for any data unless I have to.

    I am encouraged to hear that it should not take several hours to make a snapshot (otherwise who would ever do it?). And of course I am using a beta, so that might be the problem. Perhaps I should post something in the beta forum?
     
  8. kneighbour

    kneighbour Registered Member

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    Yes I do. But I just turned it off - no change in speed.

    Ok - that is an excellent point. I too have had problems with RollbackRx. It does not seem to like multi-partitioned drives, for example. The other problem with RollbackRx is that it takes up space that you do not know about. ie you cannot measure how much space you REALLY have left on your hard drive. FDISR seems a more 'honest' system in that regard.

    Yes - that alone is a very good point.

    Thanks for the good tips. I will have to see about this speed thing though - it is quite useless as it is.
     
  9. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I would do this, because not only users read that forum.
     
  10. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    If you are using Vista, and the beta, by all means post in the beta forum. That could be the root of your problems.

    Pete
     
  11. kneighbour

    kneighbour Registered Member

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    Well, I have to say that if it took me 15 minutes to image 5 gigs I would be looking for some other software! That is WAY too slow for me. True Image is way faster.

    If this is the speed you can expect from FD-ISR, then my 20 gigs snapshot should take 1 hr, which seems about what I am getting with the virus scanner turned off. I am doing another snapshot now, and it looks like it will eventually take around 50 minutes.

    And bear in mind - this is a minimal drive. I have barely started on it yet. What happens when I get to a 100 gig snapshot (we are talking all day here!).

    I guess I am spoilt by RollbackRx - which takes about 1 second to image anything. I kid you not, but I admit that it uses a different system.

    A 30+ minute snapshot time makes any system unusable - you simply would not use it, so it defeats the purpose. I would balk at anything over 15 minutes.

    Before I installed FD_ISR beta, I did a quick image of my whole hard drive using True Image. It would not have taken 15 minutes. I went and had a coffee and came back and it was done. Then I installed FD_ISR. I can rollback using True Image just as quickly - it restores in about 15 minutes as well (it did not seem that long last time I did it, but let us be charitable).

    If FD_ISR cannot beat 15 minutes (and by a good margin) for a 30 gig image, then I see little point in using FD-ISR. There are some extra features in FD-ISR, I grant you, but really, if it cannot be done in a reasonable time, then it simply will not get done, so any other discussion is academic.

    The other issue, or rather, design difference, is that FD_ISR takes up real space. If you have 4 snapshots, all of 30 gigs, then you are using up 120 gigs for basically one 30 gig image. This can be a problem - but as it is a design issue (ie it is done on purpose), and done with good reason, I guess you cannot complain about it. I suggest that you need a HUGE hard disk for this to work well.
     
  12. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    kneighbour,
    If you are talking about 30gb, is that only Windows + Applications or do you include your personal data files in this 30gb ?
     
  13. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Yes, FirstDefense takes up a whole bunch of space ... but don't other backup programs? I mean, if you are backing up 5gig of stuff, unless you are using some real serious compression, you will use at least 3 1/2 to 4 gig, correct?

    Acadia
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I think one thing you are missing, is the long time is only when you first create the snapshot. After that you just update it, and that goes pretty quick. You don't delete and recreate it everytime you want to update it.
     
  15. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Yes only NEW snapshots and NEW archives take more time. Once the snapshot or archive exists only changes are stored in the existing snapshot or archive, which is much faster (seconds, minuts).
    FDISR is still the fastest backup software, I've ever seen, nothing beats that.
     
  16. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    What are these small problems with RBRx ?
     
  17. kneighbour

    kneighbour Registered Member

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    No - that is really only Windows and applications. I have very little of my personal stuff on C: drive - for the very reason that I often lose my C: drive!

    Of course, many applications do store stuff in %appdir%, so that is included. Also a little bit my "My Documents", but I use that as little as possible.
     
  18. kneighbour

    kneighbour Registered Member

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    I suggest that imaging software (ie True image) compresses the stuff way down. I have half a dozen 30 gig total drive images in a 50 gig Secure Zone partition, so each image would only be around 8 or so gigs compressed.
     
  19. kneighbour

    kneighbour Registered Member

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    I had a problem where it crashed on a multi-partitioned drive. It may have been something else, but that is the only thing that seemed different.

    The biggest problem with RollbackRx is that it takes up a lot of space without letting you know. This is explained well on their forum, so it is not a bug or anything - it is just the way it 'stores' multiple snapshots. The space left on your drive as shown by Windows Explorer and the like is not correct. So you might think you have 20% of your drive free - when in fact it is about to go 100% - and you get all sorts of problems then. The first thing is that you are continously pestered to defrag your snapshots! It gets into a loop , so you are getting them all the time. And of course, since your HD is so full, everything slows right down and it is very hard to actually do a defrag (or delete some snapshots).

    As I said - this is in no way a bug in RollbackRx - but it would be really useful to know how much room is actually on your hard drive.
     
  20. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Thanks for the info. So RollbackRx has still its problems sometimes.
    If I was you I would at least test the copy/update of FDISR between two EXISTING snapshots and see how much time this takes.

    1. Creating a NEW bootable snapshot takes more time, than creating a NEW archive (.arx-files), but both are slower than copy/update.

    2. Copy/update
    - from an existing snapshot to another existing snapshot
    - from an existing snapshot to an existing archive
    - from an existing archive to an existing snapshot
    have the fastest execution and that's what most FDISR-users do with the primary, secondary snapshot and the archives of both. You only have to create extra new snapshots, if the primary snapshot isn't enough.

    If the copy/update takes too much time on your computer, than you better use RollbackRx and live with its disadvantages.
    There isn't much choice in Immediate System Recovery softwares with multiple snapshots : FDISR or RBRx and the rest are clones.

    I can't live with the disadvantages of RBRx, I need reliability, not speed and "less space". I would become mad with RBRx on my computer and defragging my harddisk isn't my favorite activity either. PerfectDisk is necessary, but I don't like to use it.

    It seems to me, that you are testing and trying all kinds of softwares, rather than working in your folder "My Documents".
    So it doesn't really matter if something goes wrong in your system partition, because system files are always easy to restore.
    I don't even care anymore if something very bad happens to my system partition, because I moved all my data to another harddisk/partition. My data partition doesn't even contain system files, except the usual system files that each folders has. So I can do whatever I want in my system partition and it doesn't matter how old or young it is.
    But I need a reliable software like FDISR to get back in business as quick as possible, because Acronis is too slow.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
  21. kneighbour

    kneighbour Registered Member

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    Well, I certainly do surf a lot, which is the big problem. Spyware and the like. So the biggest problem for me is NOT hardware failure - it is Windows deciding not to boot up one morning. This is by far the most common problem - about every 3-6 months I would have a Windows problem. In 25 years I have only had one hard drive fail -and then it was gradual (I had warning). On the otherhand I have re-installed Windows more times than I have had hot dinners.

    BTW - I would NEVER use the Windows system folders for anything, including My Documents. What a silly idea that was of Microsoft's. If you use Outlook (which of course I do not), try and work out where your email messages are!


    Well, they might be easy - but it still take several days. And then you have to find all the registration codes, etc.

    That is why I want a quick rollback - rather than a full and comprehensive backup system - my data drives have never failed yet.
     
  22. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Don't you have an Image Backup software at all ?
    Besides FDISR, I still use Acronis to recover my system partition, because I don't like to re-install my computer from scratch either.
    I have two groups of images :
    1. clean images, created during an off-line installation to restore my computer WITHOUT malware and they contain all my configured softwares organized in snapshots , but all installed without internet connection as far as possible.
    Except one thing : the activation of WinXPproSP2 which requires a VERY SHORT internet connection, I really HATE that activation stuff. Stupid M$.
    After I created these clean images, I never use them again for backup, only for restoration and then I activate internet and create my very first daily image.

    2. daily images, which I consider as possible infected with malware, because I don't trust any security software.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
  23. cthorpe

    cthorpe Registered Member

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    Is telephone activation an option where you are? Failing that, isn't there a file that you can copy from somewhere in an activated installation that you can simply copy back into a new installation to activate it?

    (note, I am not talking about piracy or anything like that. I'm referring to reactivating a new install on the same computer that uses the same product key)
     
  24. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I have a cell phone and calling with that is in Belgium quite expensive and I don't like to wait for help either.

    I tried it with a trick, described on a website, by copying certain files on a diskette and copy/paste these files right after the installation.
    But it didn't work, maybe I did it wrong, but I will try it again, because I'm planning a new installation on paper. I want more clean images and archived snapshots and I can only take them during an installation of Windows from scratch. nLite is also involved, so I'm still preparing it on paper.

    I know you mean it well and I work with a paid "Windows CD".
    nLite allows you to create many "Windows CD's", but I keep all this in-house and don't sell them world-wide to make a profit. LOL.
     
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