FDISR Vs Imaging

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by Peter2150, Apr 8, 2007.

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  1. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi all

    Many times it's been asked whats the difference, why use one vs the other. Most of the times FDISR is a bit faster, a reboot into the secondary, a copy/update which is typically about a minute, and a reboot into primary.
    An image restore takes a reboot, into the recovery environment which takes a few minutes, followed by the restore, which is about 5 minutes and then a boot back.

    Since I want to do some testing under vista, I had at it yesterday. First I refreshed my FDISR archive, and the imaged the system, doing a test restore. I had intended doing a clean Vista install, but by the time I was done I ended up doing an upgrade. Version of Vista is Business.

    Upgraded a few vista drivers and played around a bit. (turned off UAC). I then imaged the system with Vista, so I could come back for more testing, and again tested the restore.

    Since I did an upgrade install, FDISR and my secondary snapshot were present. Note it was the Raxco release, and not the new version made for Vista. For grins, I opened FDISR, and booted to my secondary snapshot, which was alive and well under XP. Then booted back and Vista was fine.

    I then decided to use FDISR to restore to XP, so I again booted to my secondary, and then did a copy/update from the archive(XP) to the primary(Vista). It took almost 11 minutes and there were a few errors, and when I booted to primary, chkdsk ran, but corrected the few issues. The system booted fine, and I saw no issues at all. Then partly for timing curiosity, and partly just to be sure, I restored the XP image which took the time I described above.

    So clearly there are times when restoring an image, might be a better way to go, but given what FDISR with the no vista version was able to do, you just have to say that FDISR is remarkable.

    Hey Silver, a challenge, and I don't mean this in any way demeaning, but this would be a heck of a test for Rollback, and one's faith in it.

    Cheers,

    Pete
     
  2. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Peter,
    So you did a copy/update FROM winXPproSP2-archive TO primary winVISTA-snapshot with errors and those errors were corrected by running chkdsk ?
    After that you had a new OS in your primary snapshot : WinXPproSP2 instead of winVISTA?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2007
  3. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    You've got it. Funny thing was after I did the copy/update, I looked at the log, but couldln't find the errors. Chkdsk mainly corrected some boot files like config.sys. Snapshot was fine once I booted into it. Pretty extreme test for FDISR.
     
  4. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    You got that right, an extreme test indeed. I'm pleasantly surprised by this.

    That must have been a hell of a job for FDISR to change winVISTA into winXPproSP2 by just adding, removing and replacing objects. No wonder it took 11 minutes, which is still pretty fast considering the job.
    Almost unbelievable LOL. Nice test, it makes your confidence in COPY/UPDATE alot stronger, I can tell you that. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2007
  5. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    WOW! EricAlbert & Peter2150! I'll say that was extreme Peter, and looks like FD-ISR handled it with flair in spite of showing errors you didn't find in the log. You really take it to task :blink: as much as i take Windows to task by turning the zoo looose in it & standing up various security programs to knock them off their rocker while to give up the ghost so-to-speak. Windows gets worked over pretty good but only temporarily. :D

    Thanks so much for that experiment, and a perhaps risky one at that, you don't leave no stone unturned and we all can benefit greatly from that. To coin a particular Star Wars phrase, Impressive! Most Impressive!
     
  6. kennyboy

    kennyboy Registered Member

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    For someone who has an aversion to any backup/imaging/snapshot programs running inside of Windows, I have developed total confidence in FDR doing exactly that. No way would you get me relying on an imaging program in the same situation.
    Pretty remarkable testing Peter. Makes you wonder exactly what you need to do to break this program.
     
  7. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    @Erik Actually not only more confidence in copy/update but also in using archives.

    @Easter Actually i felt the risk was nil. I had my trusty ShadowProtect image to restore anyway.

    @Kennyboy While I tend to agree with you, since I've been beta testing with ShadowProtect IT edition, all my images have been taken within Windows, and everyone of them have been rock solid.

    No Doubt this FDISR is awesome.
     
  8. kennyboy

    kennyboy Registered Member

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    Must admit I have been following the SP threads and am quite envious.
     
  9. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    That too of course. After all a frozen snapshot, uses the same copy/update from archive to snapshot.
    I knew it was possible in theory, but it's nice to know that it REALLY WORKS in practice.
    Thanks for testing this out, I feel better now. :D :cool:
     
  10. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    Hi Pete,

    I use FDISR to boot back and forth between Vista and XP and have been using it this way for months, even before the new FDISR beta and 3.20 came out. I think FDISR is a great product.

    I have 2 active snapshots, one for Vista and one for XP. I also have two Archive Snapshots for each. In addition, I have both of the active FDISR snapshots within my Rollback snapshots.

    As far as your challenge......I am not quite clear on exactly what you are challenging, but I accept. I can do the same thing that you are doing, except in seconds instead of minutes, by using the combination of RollbackRx, FDISR and ATI.

    Since the FDISR snapshots are within the RollbackRx snapshots, you can boot back and forth between Vista and XP using either Rollback or FDISR snapshots.

    The difference is that Rollback snapshots contain both active FDISR snapshots and FDISR, using the Archives just restores the particular snapshot that you want.

    If, on the rare occasion that you have to do a bare metal restore, ATI handles it very nicely. I can Recover 32 Gbs in just over 6 minutes using the Linux disk. Just do a Recover, and then restore either or both of the Vista or XP Archive snapshots and do a quick reinstall of Rollback into one snapshot, it is already contained in the others. The reinstall takes about 1 minute plus a reboot.

    The advantage of using all three:

    Very quick snapshots when you are testing using Rollback, less than 5 seconds with incremental type snapshots taking very little disk space. You can go back and forth between different configurations in seconds.

    For example, in the last couple of days I have been testing several disk encryption programs. I take a Rollback snapshot, call it "b4 xxxxx install", install a program, get it in a working state, then take another snapshot call it "after xxxx install". Reboot to the "b4 xxxxx install", then install my other test programs using the above procedure.

    You can install as many test programs as you want when testing between several. You can easily then boot back and forth between each of them and between XP and Vista and try different things out, do another Rollback snapshot if you want. Rollback history lets you easily do this. If you are boiling the test down to 2 or 3 programs from several, you just delete the snapshots of the turn downs.

    When you decide on which one you want, you reboot to the first "b4 ..." snapshot, install the program that you picked, or do nothing at all if you did not like any of them, then do an FDISR Archive snapshot and you have a quick backup in case of disaster. This has been very helpful to me in testing various Vista and XP drivers and programs, testing to see which programs work in both, etc...

    When you boot, there are two pre-boot screens, first Rollback, second FDISR. If needed, you can go the snapshot that you want. This gives you a lot more flexibility plus a two tiered snapshot system. Rollback uses very little system resources, has one of the fastest defraggers I have ever seen (I defrag with PD before installing Rollback) and it makes my computing chores much more efficient and fun.

    The cons of adding Rollback....it takes about 5 seconds longer to boot because of the Rollback preboot screen.

    In the rare bare metal scenario, it takes another minute or two to reinstall Rollback and you don't get back all of your Rollback snapshots, but you still have your FDISR snapshots plus Archives.

    Both FDISR v3.20 and Rollback v8 are very sophisticated programs and I like the way they work together along with ATI Workstation 9.1 with Universal Restore.

    Silver
     
  11. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Phew. I believe in the KISS principle, and I rarely ever create a new snapshot. I am just updating the archive.

    The challenge I was speaking of wasn't being able to boot back and forth between XP and Vista. Since rebooting keeps you in the same rollback snapshot, first thing I'd wonder is in and XP installation, can you create a new snapshot, and then do a Vista upgrade install, and then have both of them.

    Then with the archive feature, can you have and XP system, archive it, and then do an upgrade install of Vista, converting the machine to vista, and then using the archive and Rollback convert it back to XP.

    I am keeping FDISR totally out of this picture. It would be for a system that didn't have FDISR, but just Rollback.

    Pete
     
  12. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    Same here.
    There is no "archive feature" in Rollback, so, in my opinion, you could not do what you suggested without FDISR.

    You need FDISR with Archives on an external disk.

    Silver
     
  13. kazuki

    kazuki Registered Member

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    rollback version 8 does have archiving to an external disk, i use it.
     
  14. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Is that possible ? Two operating systems (winXPproSP2 and winVISTA) on one harddisk with RBRx on it ?
    I thought it was impossible, but I could be wrong.
    Wilbernl told me, RBRx was able to work for more than one partition, now I hear from Silver than RBRx also works for only one partition, just like FDISR.
    I read nothing but contradicting information about RBRx, it makes me crazy.

    Combining FDISR and RBRx is not for average working users. They want KISS. I can't sell this idea at work.
    They didn't even appreciate 3-dimensional spreadsheets at work.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2007
  15. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    You must be talking about the "Backup Snapshot" feature, which you may be thinking is an Archive. It is not an Archive as in FDISR .

    This Backup Snapshot, is really not an archive, but is just like any other backup imaging program, except that it is slow, and does not work on Raid drives.

    If that is what you are talking about, it really cannot be construed as an Archive. If you are referring to some other part of the program, please explain how you use it.

    Silver
     
  16. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Silver

    That is just a name difference. Okay so you make a backup of a snapshot off disk. Then do a Vista upgrade to that snapshot, or just convert the whole system to Vista. Then reset it back to XP with the backup of the snapshot you took prior to the upgrade.

    In essense what I am saying is I made an off disk copy of my xp machine with FDISR, upgraded the machine to Vista, and then put it back to XP with FDISR. Can you do the same thing with Rollback?
     
  17. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    If you mean two operating systems on one partition, yes, it is true. Again Erik, give it a try before you come out so negatively on a product that, I surmise from your posts, you have not experimented with.
    It will work only on one partition. That partition, however, can contain several operating systems by using FDISR along with Rollback.
    Try it at home. It is alot of fun. Just like FDISR, the more you understand and experiment with it, the more you appreciate it's attributes. It does not have all of the features that FDISR has, and FDISR does not have all of the features that Rollback has. But used together, along with ATI, they are an amazing combination.

    If I could only have one, I would pick FDISR. The synergy of using them both together, however, is incredible. It does take a little time to completely understand the program, just like it did with FDISR. In my opinion, the time is worth the benefits you get.

    And once you understand it's functions, it will KISS.

    Silver
     
  18. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    If I understand you correctly, yes, you can by using the Rollback "backup snapshot" feature, which is really just an image of one snapshot. You can do the same thing with ATI.

    This would not be the way to do it for me however, because your FDISR method is much faster and easier.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2007
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