FDISR - Copy/Update/Archive/Restore

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by ErikAlbert, May 27, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    Since this thread is about FDISR only, I posted it in the approperiate forum.

    Introduction

    First of all the button "Show Details/Hide Details" on the processing screen to copy/update/archive/restore snapshots has to disappear and is a total unneccessary and very annoying gadget. I would like to have ONE complete processing screen.
    Each time that screen appears, I have to click the "Show Details"-button to see the details and unmark the box "Close when task has completed".
    You don't use this gadget on a processing screens.
    If you don't click on the button "Show Details", you don't even see the buttons "Pause" and "Stop".
    This is something has to change.

    Also the default value (marked or not marked) of the box "Close when task has completed" needs to be configurable somewhere in the Tool/Options menu of FDISR.


    Another thing what I don't understand is that all FDISR-users are talking about "refreshing snapshots".
    I must be blind but FDISR doesn't use that expression "refreshing" or "refresh".
    I only see copy/update. Is the word "refresh" the same as "update" or what ?
    I'm just talking about the WORD, you don't have to explain what refreshing is, I will soon find out what it really is.


    Each FDISR-user should follow this thread, not because "I" wrote it, but because of the "TEST RESULTS". I'm not important, the tests are important and FDISR is important.
    What works and what doesn't work in FDISR is the main purpose of this thread.
    I would appreciate it, if something doesn't work, that other FDISR-users also test it IF POSSIBLE. You don't need to destroy your system, because of my tests. :)

    This is my first test and it won't be the last one.

    Test Archiving/Restoring Snapshots
    I disabled the pre-boot in these tests, but I don't think it's necessary.
    I just did it to avoid comments on not having disabled the pre-boot.

    1. ARCHIVE FROM an Inactive Snapshot TO Archived Snapshot
    Seems to work and Error=0

    2. ARCHIVE FROM an Active Snapshot TO Archived Snapshot
    Seems to work and Error=0

    3. RESTORE FROM Archived Inactive Snapshot TO New Snapshot
    "Archived Inactive" means that the archived snapshot (.arx) was based on an inactive snapshot.
    Seems to work and Error=0.
    Also booting in the new snapshot worked as expected.

    4. RESTORE FROM Archived Active Snapshot TO New snapshot
    "Archived Active" means that the archived snapshot (.arx) was based on an active snapshot.
    Does NOT work and Error=1 and I tried it already 4 times and each time Error=1
    Of course I didn't boot in the new snapshot.
    The new snapshot is mentioned in the main menu as a normal snapshot.

    This is the Activity log :
    Error Detail :
    Conclusion
    An archived snapshot, that was based on an ACTIVE snapshot can NOT be restored without errors.
    You can NOT see this during the creation of the archived snapshot, because Error=0
    You can NOT see this in the .arx-file or FDISR-main menu, because the new snapshot looks like a normal snapshot
    You will only notice this when you try to restore the archived snapshots.
    If you were never aware of this, all your archived snapshots, based on an ACTIVE snapshot, will results in a new snapshot with Error=1.

    The crucial question : "Is this normal or is this a bug ?" Don't ask me, I'm just an observer. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2006
  2. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,048
    Hi Erik

    First "refreshing" snapshots. Yeah it's just an expression. If you copy from the snapshot your are in to another snapshot you have "refreshed" that snapshot and made it current with the one you are in. You can give it any other name you like, but refreshing seems to have stuck.

    Re Disabling Preboot. The only time I would disable preboot, is when taking an image with a program like ATI. Otherwise I would never disable Preboot.

    You can Look at the log file, and click on the big red +, and it will expand the log and you can see what the error was.

    Just today, I refreshed an external drive archive, and then did a copy from that archive to a brand new snapshot. No errors and rebooted just fine.

    One other note erik. I always disable my AV when doing FDISR copies. One for speed and the other to be sure it isn't self protecting something. I know with ProcessGuard, you would always get two errors if you didn't disable PG due to it's protecting 2 of it's files.

    Pete
     
  3. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    All tests were done off-line and in a system partition without any security software.
    I only like to know, if I'm right about my test. Must be easy to do for any FDISR-user.
     
  4. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Posts:
    1,850
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Hm, that is interesting.

    I checked the log files in c:\$isr\$log (I cleaned that folder out recently...) and found the mentioned error notifications.

    I do update my archives from active snapshots, and I restore from those archives. But I never encountered a functional problem with the resulting snapshots.

    So, the question is, are these errors severe?

    I agree that the interface could use some cleaning up, I feel that I have to click too often. (The 'are you sure you want to boot from this snapshot', after I make my choice in the preboot screen is an example)
     
  5. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    wilbertnl,
    Well if every FDISR-user has this Error=1, it's high time that Raxco corrects this bug, even when it's nothing serious.
     
  6. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    This seems to be the error in the detail report, probably not serious.
    05/27/2006 22:52:10 Error - Wrong size or date of "WINDOWS\SchedLgU.Txt" in "Snapshot-03"
    I changed my original post with this info after Peter told me how to see this detail.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2006
  7. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,048
    No every user doesn't have the error=1. I never see anything but error=0. Erik, have you tried booting into that snapshot.

    First question is is your First Defense from Raxco and what version.

    I looked at that file on my system, and it seems to be some kind of log associated with Task Scheduler. Do you have any system type Tasks scheduled. If so that my be locking that file which is why it is generating the error.
     
  8. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    I use this one :
    FirstDefense-ISR 2000/XP Server version 3.05 Build 166 (14-day trial)

    No schedules at all, I didn't even try schedules
    Did you read wilbertnl's post, he has the same, but probably didn't see it or didn't care.

    Not all restored archived snapshots have Error=1, only when the .arx-file is created from an ACTIVE snapshot.
    I want a correction of this, otherwise I'm doing this for NOTHING.
    I like to work, but I need results and no cheap excuses from who ever wrote this software. That's not our style at work. Errors have always priortity #1.
    Let the author check this, I'm not the programmer.
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,048
    Hey calm down. No cheap excuses, from these folks far from it. I've been archiving from my active snapshots, and nary an error. I know I am not alone.

    Just a matter of figuring out whats going on.

    My next question is why did you download the server version. From everything you've described about your system that wouldn't seem to fit. Also unless I've completely misinterpreted the website the server edition strictly runs won Windows Server 2000 and 2003

    Let me also tell you that with Raxco and Leapfrog they will work to hunt down a problem if one exists, but they can't do it without user cooperation. You can't fix something if you don't see the problem. When I encountered a bug in FDISR, it took them over a month to find it, and they did, but they couldn't have done without my help. No one else has encountered the problem.

    Pete
     
  10. Leapfrog Software

    Leapfrog Software Leapfrog Management

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Posts:
    251
    Location:
    Northern Nevada, USA
    Greetings,

    Wow, I am glad that I dropped by the office today. Officially, technical support is not performed here, but before this thread gets crazy, let me assist with this issue.

    The "Error - Wrong size or date" is a known bug in the x.166 builds. This occurs during a copy and the target is a sparse file. It has no bearing on the integrity of the file. The message can be ignored. The copy engine in the ISR technology is extremely industrial strength and you can rest assure that the file was copied successfully.

    We are currently in Beta with our latest feature set and bug fixes. This is due out soon.

    btw: As a reminder to all, I highly recommend that any technical problems or bug finds should really be addressed with the original vender or reseller. Three major reasons:

    1. This is the most efficient means of solving issues you may have. Most of the venders incorporating the ISR technology have their own FAQ's, support databases, and forums for technical assistance.
    2. Each vender or reseller's product may be slightly "feature different" and thus reason #1 is strongly recommended.
    3. This is how to make the product better. Your field input is extremely valuable in creating future versions of the product continue to shine.
    I hope this helps. Ok, time for a beer. Everybody have a good weekend.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2006
  11. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    Leapfrog Software,
    If the bug is old news and known by the programmers, it's OK with me.

    About WHERE to report bugs, I have second thoughts about that.
    1. There are software companies, that don't support their trial versions or free versions even when it is a bug. I had that experience with AVG Free.
    It's not my job to KNOW all the rules of each software company, my life is already complicated enough.
    Users don't see the difference between, free, trial and paid and they do NOT need to see the difference : software is software.

    2. Users usually don't know if it's a bug or not and if they find something strange and if they are accidently a member of FDISR-forum and if they do care to talk about it, then we all are very lucky that the bug is at least mentioned one time, somewhere and shared with other people.

    3. What's the purpose of FirstDefense-ISR forum anyway, to scare people not to talk about their problems, if it is a bug?
    Is it really up to the AVERAGE user to make a distinction between bugs and no bugs?
    Most probably, he doesn't even know what the word 'bug' means.
    If a user has a problem, he likes to talk about it, because his mother won't be able to help him.
    It's up to knowledgeable members of the FDISR-forum to make that distinction bug or no bug and take care of it. :)
     
  12. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,048
    Erik

    Stop and think a minute. Where else would you report bugs to but where you obtained the software. Also if it isn't your job to know the rules of each company who's is it. If you obtained the trial from Raxco they have a support page. You need to read it. I purchased my KAV licenses from a US reseller www.ice-kav.com. They have a support page, and indeed provide support as does Kasperky themselves. But I have to read the support policy if I want help.

    Knowledgable users will indeed help, and I believe Acadia is familiar with that bug. I am not. But there is a far cry from being willing to help, and being "responsible".

    Note also that this is a somewhat unusual product for several reasons. First it is developed by Leapfrog and licensed to 3 different companies. Todd was great in getting Wilders to host a forum so all users could meet as opposed to trying to have a forum for each company.

    Finally bear in mind, that FDISR sadly will probably never be a mom and pop program. The average user sadly probably doesn't have a current AV, never backs anything up, probably isn't going to be a FDISR user. I know Todd probably wishes it were different, but reality is reality.

    As Acadia has pointed out several times, when working with computers patience is indeed a virtue.

    You are doing some valuable, but strenuous testing. When you get to test competing products I think you will then begin to see the value in FDISR.
    As you know I've looked at some of them, and they just don't compete in verstatilty, reliablity, and support.

    Pete
     
  13. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    Why is this forum necessary at Wilders, if they have already a support page on their website?
     
  14. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    The title of this forum does not contain the word "support". This forum is NOT necessary but it IS nonetheless, IMO, a quite welcome and useful addition to Wilders Security Forums.
     
  15. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    Which means for me that I don't have to report any of my experiences with FDISR at Wilders. If I have a problem, I only have to contact Raxco, which is alot easier for me.
    I guess this forum is only for a chitchat about FDISR.
     
  16. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    Call it chitchat if you want. It's whatever we, including Todd, care to make of it within the TOS for Wilders, nenk ?
     
  17. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,048
    Yes and no. Certainly there are issues we can help each other with. I know if Acadia had popup on he would have known about that bug and informed you immediately. The forum is about helping each other, and learning from each other's experience. I know for certain you test efforts have been very valueable to me and probably other users.

    But if you find what appears to be a valid bug then yes you need to go thru Raxco. Notice if you read the Acronis forum, and that is their support forum, and they do provide support their that they still have people go thru their tech support.

    Erik, put it in perspective. You've got help here, and you have given here, and that is what Wilder's is all about.
     
  18. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Posts:
    1,850
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    EricAlbert,

    From what I'm reading in this thread, I understand that you are a very passionate employee. Your function is to go through software procedures with a lice comb. That is impressive.

    I have a lifetime of experience in IT as well, and I have worked many years in the newspaper industry where priority #1 is to meet deadlines and get the product delivered. Even in case the building is burning down.
    Fixing bugs and errors are at a far distance from priority #1 until they compromise #1.
    It was my function to work around errors and bugs in order to accomplish #1.

    All I want to say is that we do have a different point of view and your input is highly appreciated.
    It sounds to me that errors=1 or errors=2 should be read as warnings=1 or warnings=2.

    We will soon see how Microsofts Volume Shadow Copy Service is improving FD-ISR. As user you might not notice any difference.
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,048
    HI Wilbertnl

    When ever I see an error, first thing I try is re copy and see if it persists. If it does then check log file to see what it is. If it relates to that known bug that's one thing. Also it might be a protected file. but I would check it and see what it is.

    Pete
     
  20. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    OK Guys,
    I guess I'm a bit too defensive, but at work I really have to pay attention at people around me. Software vendors, users, ... and even programmers at work are trying to fool me or are trying to tell me what to do and if something goes wrong they all disappear and I get the blame.

    Well I found an OLD bug without knowing about it, which means I'm still able to do it at my age. That's enough for me.
    I'm used to report anything about a software : good and bad stuff and I'm certainly not used to separate bugs from no bugs, like they do at Wilders.

    Test Copy/Update Snapshots
    ISR, Immediate System Recovery, is maybe the main function of FDISR, but I wasn't impressed by it, because RollbackRx, Deepfreeze, ShadowUser and several others do exactly the SAME job.
    That's very good of course, but that wasn't new for me after all my readings.

    However, "Copy/Update Snapshots", what is called "Refreshing Snapshots" by FDISR-users at Wilders, is entirely new to me and this is really a fascinating function.
    I've done my first test with "refreshing" snapshots today.

    1. I created a system partition OFF-LINE with winXPproSP2 + FDISR and called it Snapshot-02

    2. I copied Snapshot-02 to Snapshot-03 and rebooted in Snapshot-03

    3. In Snapshot-03, I installed 4 security softwares :
    a. ZoneAlarm Free
    b. AVG Free
    c. Ad-Aware SE Personal
    d. Spybot S&D
    None of them were up-to-date of course, because I was off-line. Even Windows was still not activated
    and not fully patched.

    4. I turned my modem on, activated Windows and there was an automatic Windows Update with more than 40 patches. I updated all signatures of AVG, Ad-Aware and Spybot.

    5. I copy/update from Snapshot-03 to Snapshot-02.

    6. I reboot with Snapshot-02 and it looked exactly the same as Snapshot-03 with 4 fully updated security softwares.

    I really have to think about this thoroughly, because that function opens a new world of possibilities for me.
    That function only puts ShadowUser literally in the shadow :D
     
  21. TonyW

    TonyW Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Posts:
    2,634
    Location:
    UK
    Also if, for example, after installing those softwares in Snapshot-03 you didn't want to keep them, you could boot into Snapshot-02 and copy/update ("refresh") Snapshot-03 with Snapshot-02. If you then boot back into Snapshot-03 after doing that, all traces of the 4 programs will have gone as both snapshots will now be identical.

    This software has many uses from updating snapshots from a backup point of view or the ability to test software in another instance, and have all traces gone in an instant.
     
  22. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Posts:
    1,850
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Tony is correct, you are easily able to undo the test installation in snapshot 3.

    And you could also go a different way in snapshot 3:
    For example you install the free AntiVir in snapshot 2 and the free AVG in snapshot 3 and you test both virus software to your liking.

    I created a slipstreamed Windows CD, which contains almost all the current hotfixes. So, I hardly have to worry about patching. Saves time too.
    In your case that would mean that your 'offline installation' is already patched.
    You could also create an archive from what you call the offline installation and use that as basis for new snapshots.

    I agree with you, EricAlbert, you really need some time to understand the power of this software.
     
  23. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,048
    Hi Erik

    It will more and more amaze you at the possibilites as you understand this software. I wanted to test the new Beta of MS Office 2007. But it changes some of the file formats. So I created a 3rd snapshot, and installed the beta there. I also created an archive of that snapshot. So anytime I want to play with the beta I boot to it, and it doesn't interfere with my work. If I chose I can delete the whole snapshot, and then again reinstall the snapshot by doing a copy from the archive.

    I am having trouble installing the latest version of Scansofts paperport. To be sure there is no conflict, I literally uninstalled all my security software, and several other programs. Then I installed Paperport. Still had difficulties, so i did an uninstall of paperport to free it's activation, then booted into my other snapshot, and did a "refresh" ie copy/update, and poof, my system was right back like it should be.

    Also I've found FDISR to be rugged. I've crashed, bashed, hung my system, and never have failed to recover with no disk problems.

    Pete
     
  24. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    I consider FDISR as a magic stick. A few ticks and I have ANOTHER system partition in no time and since I separated my data from my system partition, I can do whatever I want with my system partition without any risk of losing my personal files.
    ATI is also reliable, but as clumsy as an elephant to get ANOTHER system partition in such a short time.
    Each day I'm getting closer to what I really want. :cool:
     
  25. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,048
    Uh oh. Be careful Erik, you are about to join the club of FDISR fans.:D

    Pete
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.