FD-ISR problems with Vista

I reformatted my PC hoping this might correct the problems I’ve experienced recently with FD-ISR errors and snapshots taking far too long to complete. After the 12-hour chore of reformatting, downloading Windows updates via dial-up, and reinstalling programs and data files, I created a snapshot. The snapshot which should have taken around 35 minutes to make took over 3.5 hours (at least there were no errors). Then I pondered a new idea. When I set up my new Vista PC last month, I installed NOD32 and used the Windows firewall; there were no obvious FD-ISR problems. A couple weeks later, KIS v7 was released and I replaced NOD32 with KIS.

I wondered if KIS (possibly its Proactive Defense module) was somehow the culprit. I replaced KIS with NOD32 and my first FD-ISR snapshot took just under an hour to finish, albeit with 8 pesky errors. I then used Auslogics Disk Defrag to defragment my C drive.

Rebooting into a KIS snapshot, I defragmented the C drive, turned off KIS’s Proactive Defense then made a new regular snapshot. It took well over three hours; turning off PDM had no effect. All of these snapshots were made using FD-ISR with the original copy engine file and were approximately 18.7 GB in size. I spent two infuriating hours fighting Vista to gain access to the $ISR\0 folder without success. I’ll try again to replace the copy engine file with the one Raxco support sent me when I’m not suffering from sleep deprivation. The regular (as opposed to archive) NOD32 snapshots always contained 8 errors despite the error block under Transfer Info in “show details” reporting 0 errors. The last entry in these activity logs stated 8 errors but I couldn’t find these errors when I reviewed the logs. Before reformatting, errors cited in the log were readily identifiable in the log’s contents.

I don’t pretend these results are scientifically valid, but I think they may indicate a relationship between KIS and the long copy times I’ve experienced with FD-ISR on my Vista PC. What I find incomprehensible is just a few days ago I made consecutive snapshots (with KIS active); the first took 36 minutes, the second took nearly four hours. That established KIS doesn’t always cause a delay in copying files with FD-ISR.

Summary of snapshot results:

KIS v7 all modules active - Regular snapshot - 3 hours 33 minutes - 0 errors

NOD32 - Regular snapshot - 57 minutes - 8 errors

NOD32 - Archive snapshot, internal drive - 29 minutes - 0 errors

NOD32 - Archive snapshot, external drive - 44 minutes - 0 errors

KIS v7, PDM disabled - Regular snapshot - 3 hours 19 minutes - 0 errors

NOD32 - Regular snapshot - 1 hour 7 minutes - 8 errors

NOD32 - Regular snapshot - 1 hour 10 minutes - 8 errors

NOD32 - Archive snapshot, internal drive - 31 minutes - 0 errors

 

Hi Pete,

While I would never run FD-ISR copy/update while a defragmentation program was running, I had no idea it was necessary to turn off an anti-virus program. I used FD-ISR for two years on my old XP PC, mostly with NOD32 but occasionally KIS v6, and never experienced unusually long copy times or snapshot errors (so long as I remembered to disable ProcessGuard). If AV software is causing conflicts with FD-ISR, I'm surprised I haven't read about other people reporting such problems.

After 30 minutes of blundering and cursing Microsoft, I finally got Vista to let me access the $ISR\0 folder so I was able to replace the copy engine file with the "debug" file Raxco support sent me. I'm now in the process of creating and updating snapshots so I can send a new SupportInfo file to Raxco/Leapfrog. I'd really like cogent explanations for the snapshot time disparities between KIS v7 and NOD32 and why errors reported in the FD-ISR activity log appear as "Errors 0" in the Transfer Info window.

KIS's PDM hasn't given me any FD-ISR-related pop-ups. One of the reasons why I put KIS v7 on my new PC is for its registry protection feature (since ProcessGuard and RegDefend I used on my old PC aren't compatible with Vista).

 

After replacing the copy engine file with the one Raxco support sent me, I created some new regular snapshots. Each took slightly over one hour to complete with 8 errors. The text in the copy/update window after finalization said 8 errors while the Transfer Info section said "Errors 0"; the last entry in the activity logs reported 8 errors but no errors were listed in the logs' contents.

Rebooting into the KIS snapshot, it took 3.5 hours or so to make a new snapshot (with no errors). I disconnected from the Internet, turned off KIS, and there was no effect on snapshot creation times. After uninstalling KIS and rebooting, it took around 1 hour 40 minutes to complete a regular snapshot. Reinstalling KIS, snapshot completion time was back to around 3.5 hours. I'm confounded why (a) snapshot times are far longer with KIS installed than NOD32, (b) why turning off KIS had no impact on snapshot times, and (c) why it took over 30 minutes longer to make a new snapshot in a system with no anti-virus (after KIS was uninstalled) than one in which NOD32 was active.

I hope the wizards at Leapfrog have some answers after they've reviewed the SupportInfo logs I submitted. Life was so much simpler with my XP PC.

 

wow! more that 3hours of waiting is not good for me. nice experiment Karen!

I find FDISR review pretty good but if that's how it takes to make snapshot i think i just stay with rollback rx which give me less than 1minute (sometimes only 10secs) to make snapshot.

 

30mins is not bad...but more than an hour is terrible (almost the same as windows system restore).

 

Please don't judge FD-ISR simply based on my current problems. I'm sure I've read about more RollbackRx troubles than FD-ISR ones. I apparently have an uncanny knack of attracting software trouble. The only problem (actually a near disaster) I experienced with FD-ISR in two years on my old XP PC was when I did a defrag using a trial of Perfect Disk 8. Most people will tell you PD8 is completely compatible with FD-ISR. Only an Acronis True Image backup saved me after PD8 trashed FD-ISR on my system (couldn't even reinstall FD-ISR).

My current Vista/FD-ISR problems are confined to long snapshot creation times with KIS v7 installed and possibly innocuous errors which may turn out to be nothing more than reporting glitches. Normally, an 18 GB snapshot only takes around an hour to create and archive snapshots may only require half that time. After backup snapshots are made, I usually rely on updates. The copy/update process usually just takes several minutes. The only reason I've made so many snapshots recently is to gather information to send to Raxco/Leapfrog support.

By their silence, it's safe to assume most FD-ISR users aren't experiencing the problems I am (or not using Vista/KIS v7). Hopefully, Leapfrog will eventually come up with some solutions for me as I'd hate to not be able to use my 3-year KIS license or have to buy a Windows XP installation CD.

 

FDISR and PD8 running here without any problems on xp. I don't you KIS. Nor do I have an intel chip like what member FDE is facing. Vista is a whole new animal I don't want to get involved with.

 

Hi Karen,

Sorry to see you having problems. I have been using Vista Ultimate & FD-ISR with KIS7 for about 6 weeks (uninstalled a few days ago to migrate to a new machine)and it has went very smooth.

There is a setting in there (don't remember exactly where) where I marked all services to do with FD to trusted, then do not scan open files, do not restrict registry and it has worked well. I disable/ close everything out in my system tray before I do a copy/update just so there are no potential conflicts.

The copy/updates do take a bit longer in Vista for me compared to XP. It sounds like Kav is scanning all the files.

 

With KIS v7 installed on my PC, I just created a new snapshot and updated another one. It took 3 hours 28 minutes for the snapshot to finish (with 2 errors reported in the activity log but not shown anywhere in the copy/update window); the update took 16 minutes. Then I configured KIS placing my C drive's entire \$ISR\ folder and all FD-ISR services in the "trusted zone." I removed the snapshot I'd just created and made a new one; it took 3 hours 27 minutes (with no errors) to complete. Once KIS is installed on my Vista system, I can turn off KIS or place FD-ISR in the trusted zone and snapshots still take three times longer to create than with KIS uninstalled or when using NOD32.

This afternoon, I grew so frustrated with the long snapshot copy times with KIS that I uninstalled it from my Vista PC then installed it on my old XP PC. When I went to activate, the program refused to accept my Kaspersky key file or the activation code I received when I purchased KIS from Systweak months ago. Does anyone know any good Russian curse words? I wound up returning KIS v7 to my Vista PC by restoring an Acronis True Image backup.

 

@Karen:
There was an unusual thread at dslr re issues with KAV indexing and there have been several others about ADS streams
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18608452-Kaspersky-You-lost-me-at-ISwift
there is some of the usual name calling nonsense but there was also some meat.

I dont have KAV but just wondering...

...where is Todd while we are meandering along here...?

Regards

btw nice efforts by you and some good posts

 

OK
Just a thought
No Vista here yet.
Still stockpiling XPPro CDs Heh

I'm moving more in your (Peter) direction: less and less AV stuff (signature scanners anyway)

Regards.

 

I ran KAV, NOD32, SUPERAntiSpyware, ... all three couldn't find anything in my frozen snapshot, not even a false positive.
I clean my frozen snapshot in 2 minutes, all these scanners needed more than 20 minutes to find ... NOTHING.

 

For the past two weeks I've been jumping through hoops like a trained seal creating numerous snapshots, replacing files, performing tests, compiling/sending reports, etc. for Raxco/Leapfrog support in the hope of resolving my problems. After replacing FD-ISR's copy engine file twice with different ones supplied by Raxco, I no longer get errors when snapshots are created. Whether these were ever genuine errors or merely Vista/FD-ISR reporting glitches is a question I can't get answered.

It's the consensus of Raxco and Leapfrog that KIS's "filter driver" is responsible for FD-ISR snapshots taking three times longer to make with KIS installed compared to NOD32. If this is correct then I don't understand why hundreds or thousands of folks aren't reporting this problem since KIS/KAV and FD-ISR are popular software. Perhaps this problem is confined to Vista users and then maybe it's just my PC's configuration. Searching through old posts in this forum, I found another person who complained about 20 GB FD-ISR snapshots taking three hours to make but he didn't mention what anti-virus program he used.

I did a Google search trying to find other people with KIS/FD-ISR problems. The following appears on Horizon DataSys Inc.'s website:

"We have found that Kaspersky Labs Anti-Virus adds a data attribute to the user's source files. This modification of the user's source files is against our integrity checks and thus Kaspersky Labs Anti-virus should not be installed for FirstDefense-ISR to fully protect your system. We have notified Kaspersky Labs, since any application performing file integrity checks may cause problems."

I contacted Kaspersky support about this problem as well as the fact my KIS keyfile/activation code is accepted in my Vista PC but not my XP PC. After a wait of several days, Kaspersky support asked me to send them my keyfile for review but failed to respond to the issue of FD-ISR snapshots taking far too long to create with KIS installed.

So it appears I have the choice of either keeping KIS and enduring a wait of 3.5 hours to create new snapshots or purchase a new license key for an anti-virus program fully compatible with FD-ISR.

 

It'll take me hours to read all these posts, and I havent got time, but recently I get the FD-ISR Icon displaying a Red Cross when I reboot, and it says FD-ISR is disabled, and I cant find anyway of re-enabling it other than uninstaling (the program only) leaving the snapshots intact, and reinstalling FD-ISR again, Anyone else seen this at all

 

I think you jinxed me! When I reboot, a red cross on the FD-ISR system tray icon normally appears but (until this morning) promptly disappears when FD-ISR is fully initialized. An hour ago, I rebooted in order to exit a Returnil session and the red cross on the FD-ISR icon appeared and remained. It took several tries before clicking on the icon got the FD-ISR control panel to appear. I checked the activity log and there were no error entries. All usual FD-ISR processes were operating yet the red cross remained (it normally appears if the ISRService.exe is disabled). I rebooted and the FD-ISR icon appeared/functioned normally.

I just uninstalled KIS and installed a trial of Avira Premium Security Suite. After rebooting, a red cross appeared on the FD-ISR icon and remained. The red cross symbol eventually went away but it took several minutes before this happened.

Did I already mention your post jinxed me?

 

Gosh! My Harry Potter Spell Casting and Wizardry has gotten Better

 

I noticed you tried out PD8. Did you end up keeping it? If so then the combo of returnil and PD8 is problematic and has been reported on several occasions. I tried the combo out and it also produced errors with FDISR.