fd-isr compared to ax64??

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by zfactor, Jan 13, 2014.

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  1. zfactor

    zfactor Registered Member

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    having very little experience with fd-isr i would like to know ho do the two overall differ and how are they (if at all) are the same. i love ax64 very much but still have the occasional issues and so far it seems to not really being advanced very much. so im looking at this as a possible alternative knowing that raxco support is awesome from all the years of dealing with them. i downloaded the raxco trial but i have yet to install it just because i have not had very much time at all this past week and next week looks about the same (im making up for taking 2 weeks off for the holiday still just have a ton of work still this week)

    thanks
     
  2. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    AX64 is a true mirror imaging program (copies sectors) while IR is a folder/file copying program. AX64 makes a recovery CD or USB for real disasters while IR uses a pre-Boot screen if Windows fails (works quite well too). AX64 is much faster and uses much less space while IR allows you to keep completely different configurations of your system on your pc (even different Operating Systems) at the same time, allowing you to boot between them at will, and it does this all WITHOUT any partitioning. Both are very flexible but I would give a slight edge to IR in that department. If IR is anything like the old FD, it will prove to be very reliable but so was AX64 when I tested it.

    Acadia
     
  3. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Hi Acadia,

    You can achieve the above with AX64 too. Just have different directories for different operating systems. For example.

    1. AXTMWin7
    2. AXTMWin8
    3. AXTMWin8.1

    If you are in Windows 7 and need to boot into Windows 8.1, just rename as follows:

    1. AXTM > AXTMWin7
    2. AXTMWin8.1 to AXTM

    Now boot into Windows 8.1 latest snapshot and make sure that you pick from the advance menu to restore MBR.

    Best regards,

    Mohamed
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    HI Guys

    Having switched to Ax64 when I bought the two new machines, I liked it and the concepts. But FD-ISR coming back changes things.

    I will spell out some of the differences, for me.

    Speed. On the surface and for many uses AX64 is the speed winner. But say I need to go back to an early configuration of my machine which is stipped down, that's another matter. Not to long ago I needed to go back to an early point on my PC, and I first tried a hot restore. It failed, and I had to do a cold restore. That took far longer then restoring an FDISR archive.

    Reliability. Based on my experience, both past and present I'd clearly give IR/FDISR a 100%. AX64, I am not sure. Although on two machines hot restores have seemed perfect, I've had a few things happen that make me wonder if restores have truly been 100%. I can look at the FDISR/IR logs to verify. There is just that bit of nagging doubt.

    Long Term. Interesting aspect. WIth Raxco, it's not totally 100%. They are working on a marketing strategy to try and make it succeed this time. I don't think the Realcopy/AX64 teem have a marketing strategy. Also there is product development. For me AX64 started a slide with the RealCopy recovery environment. It simply didn't work. I think I know why, but if I am right it will be a tough fix.

    It is clear that Realcopy is now in control and is taking things towards the Realcopy side as opposed to the AX64 side. This is just my opinion, but with the state of the GUI and it's under the hood workings, I would predict that it will fail. It is just totally counter intuitive.

    Then there is one final thing that troubles me. I thought everything one the machine I am working one right now was fine, but... when I uninstalled AX64, installed Instant Recovery, and made my first snapshot, there was 1 error. I checked the logs and found it was due to a corrupted directory folder. I let chkdsk fix it and then ran SFC /verifyonly It found errors, so I reran SFC /Scannow. It fixed the errors and now IR runs perfectly.

    For these reasons I am in process of switching back from AXTM 1.307 to IR.

    Pete
     
  5. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    As a PS, there is one other huge difference that sets IR aside from AX64 and most imaging programs. The ability to exclude folders, and files.

    This past year I found myself in a mess. I had done something in a hurry that left me with a problem on the disk and the newest backup image I had was a year old.

    Running chkdsk fixed things, but left one folder with something in it that it simply couldn't fix. All efforts to remove it failed. I had been warned by my SP contact that there could be a file system structural problem, and a few tests proved him correct, so I really need to restore an image, but it was a year old.

    So what I did thanks to FDISR, was make a new FDISR archive, excluding the problem folder. Then I restored the old image. Finally I restored the FDISR archive sans the bad folder, and bingo. I was back current without any problems. Could only do that with FDISR.

    Pete
     
  6. starfish_001

    starfish_001 Registered Member

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    Mirrors my experience. I like Ax64 have 6 lics but FD ISR has been 100% for me. I hope IR will be 100% at the moment I have switch one machine - snapshots work fine but the archiving is broken so Shadow protect is providing the cover for this.


    I am hopeful that Todd (Raxco support is good if your European but not excellent) can work out why I'm having problems it may be becuase this machine was running FDISR until switching to IR
     
  7. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    What is your problem with Archiving?

    Pete
     
  8. twl845

    twl845 Registered Member

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    Pete, It's been a long time since I used FDISR, so I'm trying to remember it. Does IR work the same? In FDISR, I believe I created snapshots and could go to a snapshot at will by clicking the appropriate one at bootup. With IR, can you store snapshots (copies) on an external HD rather than on your C drive?
     
  9. TonyW

    TonyW Registered Member

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    In essence, the new IR is like the old FD-ISR, and if you've used that before, you'll know snapshots are created on the C:/ drive. This has not changed. However, as before, you can create archives on an external hard drive.
     
  10. twl845

    twl845 Registered Member

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    Thanks for the response. Having the snapshots on the C: Drive is the weak link as I see it. That's like Roll Back Rx. If you can't access the snap shots you can't recover. The beauty of AX64 is that the snapshots are on an external HD. I didn't use the archive feature when I used FD-IRS so I don't know much about it. Is there a way to boot using an archive?
     
  11. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    First it is nothing like Rollback Rx

    You can't boot to an archive, what you do is create stripped down snapshot and boot to that. From there you can restore the archive.

    Pete
     
  12. zfactor

    zfactor Registered Member

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    nice, great info. ill trial it next week when i have some extra time. for me ax64 99.9% of the time works but i have had those rare times when it doesnt. and now that realcopy (i still question isso's choice there when im sure so many MUCH larger companies would have been interested in the code) is involved in not sure of what to think. anyway i am not liking (so far and that may change for the better and i hope it does) the direction and choices they seem to be making. and i agree if they dont make some better choices i think it will fail which stinks,

    anyway fd-isr may be something i may use on a few machines but from its description and how it works its not something i would choose and my primary backup choice. i personally require to have external backups along with any other methods. once i test it then i can see what it can really do i guess, but until then i guess i may end up back with ifw because it seems im not finding many i like anymore to be honest. i jumped to buy ax64 and its been pretty good and i would say paid for itself but i would not buy anmore lic's until i know where its headed for sure.
     
  13. TonyW

    TonyW Registered Member

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    It's important to remember IR is not a backup solution, although the archives that can be created on an external hard drive could be considered to be a form of backup. IR can be used along with a more traditional backup/imaging program. (Images will be slightly larger than if IR wasn't installed though.)

    IR's main focus is as an instant recovery platform; as an example, one can have two snapshots, Primary and Secondary, and when the Secondary is created it is a copy of the Primary. Something goes wrong in the Primary (failed installation, human error etc.), a user boots into the Secondary and updates the Primary from that snapshot. Of course, any stored archives can be used to update snapshots, but not the one you're in. That's the workings at its simplest level, but there are a number of different ways of handling the program, and it gets interesting if you have more than two snapshots, up to a maximum of 10. (It should be noted the number of snapshots you can have is dependent on how big your hard drive is, but I would've thought two was enough for general use.)
     
  14. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Just want to clarify a few points for those of you who may be new to the concept of InstantRestore. Those of you who have used the original FisrtDefense for years will already know what follows.

    The bootable snapshots (up to ten) are all stored on the c:drive although they cannot see each other. It is as if you have partitioned your primary drive and installed Windows many times and with some sort of boot manager are constantly booting among them. Again, you have not actually done this but the effect is identical.

    The archives, on the other hand, can be stored anywhere and it is recommended that they be stored on drives other than your primary for the obvious reasons. You can have as many of them as you wish, only limitation would be drive space. You can recover any of them at any time. Each archive and each bootable snapshot is your entire operating system and all programs onto itself. You see how this can really start eating into your drive space.

    The pre-Boot screen amazes me. There have been times when I so hosed my system that I could not boot into Windows but by using the pre-Boot I simply booted into another snapshot and then used it to restore my Primay Snapshot from another bootable snapshot or archive.

    Freeze option: I have never used this but it is similar to ShadowDefender, Returnil or DeepFreeze. It simply restores your system upon reboot and all changes have been erased. I am pretty sure because of the way it works that the Freeze option would probably be a bit slower to reboot than the other three programs I mentioned but the effect would be identical.

    Anchored folders: I have also never used this feature. This allows you to anchor important folders, usually your documents, among the bootable snapshots. If you restore your Primary snapshot using an older snapshot, you will not lose your documents, every thing else changes but they are unaffected. Here's a question for you experts who have used the original FDISR for years: What happens to your anchored folders if you restore from an archive and not a bootable snapshot?

    As you can see, the flexibility of this program takes some time to wrap your brain around. The only negatives that I see from InstantRecovery is that it is slower than some recovery programs especially AX64 (but faster than others) and definitely, depending how you use it, can take up a ton of drive space.

    Fun stuff here, enjoy.
    Acadia
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2014
  15. twl845

    twl845 Registered Member

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    Pete, Thanks for your answer. I meant to say that both IR and RBrx are located on your computer and so are the snapshots, rather than keeping the snapshots on a ext. drive. :)
     
  16. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Isso had the AX64 TM project progressing well beyond my wildest expectations and his attention to support and details in refining it was stellar! He alone has my undivided support and complete trust, Even back when he introduced UltimateDefrag with it's industry First disk metaphor display, it was a welcome relief to find his support A-1!

    I hate the old phrase that "all good things come to an end", and of course they do eventually , in time.

    But Pete, i echo those exact same sentiments in exactly the same measure.

    Real-Copy is unfortunately overtaken it seems everything that Isso fashioned AX64 TM to become. I was very quiet as the merger was made public, but i feared what might happen to the AX project and my fears apparently are not without merit.

    But THANK THE SOFTWARE GODS for bringing alive our cherished First Defense ISR and here's hoping for yet another more successful run.

    EASTER
     
  17. pratzert

    pratzert Registered Member

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    How many of you have been running IR AND AX64 together at the same time?

    Any problems or conflicts?
     
  18. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Yes sort of. I have them on this machine right now. I am using AX64 strictly as an imaging program. No hot restores. They get confused, and I've seen you may not get everything you expect back.

    Also the incrementals take longer. Half the time of full baseline, but about six or seven minutes as opposed to one.

    Pete
     
  19. twl845

    twl845 Registered Member

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    I would think that it would get complicated and hard to manage. If you are using your latest snapshot of AX64, and you install IR and make a 2nd snapshot, both running snapshots are the same. Then you decide to install an app. You make a new snapshot in AX64 and install the app. Now if the app is no good, you revert to the previous snapshot in AX64 and you boot to the second snapshot in IR, and the bad app is gone. How many times can you do that if that works before you make a mistake? I would think that you should make a choice and use AX64 OR IR.
     
  20. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    It seems to work fine. But you have to make your mind, to use AX64 strictly as an imaging program. If you use it's time back and forth feature, you indeed are going to make a mess..
     
  21. twl845

    twl845 Registered Member

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    Yeah. I guess I'd then have to decide whether to stick to my Macrium Reflect an IR or AX64 and IR. :doubt:
     
  22. controler

    controler Guest

    And so if you have a pre windows boot screen the MBR has been modified?

    Thanks
     
  23. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    No, InstantRestore does not touch the MBR, it modifies the PBR/VBR (partition/volume boot record).

    Panagiotis
     
  24. starfish_001

    starfish_001 Registered Member

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    Archiving does not work at all - cannot create new and cannot import FD ones either.

    Oddly FD has no problem - only thing that changed was uninstalling FD and installing IR

    Raxco have spent the last 2 weeks looking at it - no feedback yet
     
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