False Restore -= EMERGENCY =-

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Limerick, Nov 8, 2005.

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  1. Limerick

    Limerick Registered Member

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    -= EMERGENCY =-

    Hello all

    I've something really special.

    I want a restore my brand new Dell 9300 from an Image made with TI 8.

    Things are running well except that it seems to be very.. very long. Much, much longer than usual.

    When I reboot, I can see that it did not restore anything at all : it is still the previous installtion.
    So I delete the partition, I format it and re-restore it : SAME :eek:

    Something interesting is when I have to select the partition where to restore (just created after a delete and a format) I can see there's not the full space available. There's the same space available as before deleting-formatting-creating the partition.

    I did those operations with Disk Director Suite 9.

    Can these problem come from what I guess to be a kind of Acronis Secure Zone provided by Dell, and messes up the MBR ?

    Thank you for your help,

    -= EMERGENCY =-
     
  2. Allen L.

    Allen L. Registered Member

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    Couple of things I really don't understand.

    You say: "I want a restore my brand new Dell 9300 from an Image made with TI 8.
    Things are running well except that it seems to be very.. very long. Much, much longer than usual."
    ___________________

    In the above are you referring to your new Dell before or after the restore? If after, it should be running the same as before. It is a 'copy' of your system, so it will preform the same as your system 'ran' before the restore...slow then, slow now. Fast then, fast now.

    ___________________

    You say: "When I reboot, I can see that it did not restore anything at all : it is still the previous installtion."
    "So I delete the partition, I format it and re-restore it : SAME"

    ___________________

    Of course it's the same, it is an image or mirror of your *same* system.
    ___________________

    I'm sure you erased the partition long ago that Dell places on the hard drive when you formated your hard drive with Disk Director. If your machine is booting up, your MBR is restored, or was never touched. When you format your original hard drive, you format your partitions, not the MBR.

    ...Allen
     
  3. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Limerick,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    I would agree with Allen L., because I also consider your explanation of the problem as a little bit unclear :)

    Could you please describe the issue in more words?

    What exactly do you mean when saying that "...things are running well except that it seems to be very.. very long. Much, much longer than usual..."?

    Do you mean that the image creation\restoration process is running too slow?

    If yes, then please tell me how much time does it actually take to restore your image?

    What exactly do you mean by "...much, much longer than usual..."? Whether this process did take less time earlier? What has changed, since then?

    Are you trying to perform these actions from under Windows or when booted from Bootable Rescue CD?

    What operating system you use?

    Where do you store your images?

    Please also find the full version name and build number as it is shown here and let me know them.

    What exactly of you mean when saying that when you reboot you "...can see that it did not restore anything at all : it is still the previous installtion..."?

    It's quite strange statement, since, as Allen L. has already mentioned above, Acronis True Image 9.0 creates the exact copy of your hard drive. Thus when you restore an image it reverts your system to the state exactly as it was when you have created this image.

    If it does not explain you the situation, then please provide me with the more detailed information on the problem. Describe actions taken before the problem appears step-by-step.

    As for formatting your hard drive with Acronis Disk Director Suite 9.0 and then creating the totally new partition layout, I should say that if you are restoring the image of the entire hard drive then it will overwrite the existing partitions with the data from the image archive anyway. Thus there is no need to re-format or re-partition your hard drive prior to restoring the image.

    Please also tell me what exactly do you mean when saying that when you "...have to select the partition where to restore (just created after a delete and a format) I can see there's not the full space available...", "...there's the same space available as before deleting-formatting-creating the partition..."?

    If the above explanation does not solve your isse then please describe all the actions taken before the problem appears step-by-step. Please also let me know whether you have created an image of the entire hard drive or the image of the system partition only?

    Please also be aware that, as Allen L. has already said, your Dell service partition (EISA partition) most likely has already been deleted when you formatted your drive using Acronis Disk Director Suite 9.0. Moreover, there should mot be any problems with your hard drive's MBR as well. Especially since your restored operating system boots just fine.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2005
  4. Limerick

    Limerick Registered Member

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    Ok guys thank you very much for your answers and I try to clear it up :)

    1- I received a brand new Dell 9300 with many things I don't need/want (ISP ads, Norton... etc...), so I decided to do my own XP Pro SP2 installation.

    2- I partitionized the 80GB HDD in three partitions for me but I let 2 partitions previously existing which I suppose belonging to Dell recovery system. I decided to see what to do with this 2 partitions later.

    3- Then I formatted my 3 partitions and installed XP exactly the way I wanted (with some tweaks but no software at all, like a "virgin XP")

    4- When everything was OK, I made an Image placed on an external USB2 hard drive. It took about 7 minutes. At this step everything is OK for me.

    5- I installed/tried few softwares which did not satisfied me. So I decided to go back with my personal "virgin XP" I made few days before.

    6- I ran TI8 from the CD and the restoration was tell "Successfully", excepted that it took about 25 minutes instead of the usual 8 to 10 minutes. But it said it was successfull.

    7- When I boot my Dell Inspiron 9300, I could see it was exactly the same thing compared of what it was just before the restoration.

    8- Then I decide to use Disk Director Suite to delete the partition, create it again and then format it before a new restoration.

    9- When I choose the partition where to restore my image (partition which had been deleted and created again before being formatted), its available space was not full. There was still about 3GB not free on a total of 15GB. I was surprised but decided to continue the restoration.

    10- The restoration continued as the first time (about 25 minutes to go) and when I boot the laptop, it was still the previous XP installation. To be clear, not the Dell original one, but my personal installation with some softwares (and tweaks) I did not want to keep. Reason of my restoration.

    11- I did this quite long operation a couple of times, and I still had the same installation.

    Finally, what I suppose, is Disk Director Suite or/and TI8 are unable to erase this partition.

    I hope I was clear enough, now and I'd like to know about this amazing trouble...

    Thank you again,
     
  5. rdgrimes

    rdgrimes Registered Member

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    It's impossible to delete/format a partition, then restore an image, and wind up with something else. My guess is that you are confusing the partitions and somehow formatting one and restoring to another. TI often does not display correct volume letters, so it's not impossible to get confused.

    1st - Mount your saved image and browse it to confirm that you have what you want in there - which is a fresh Windows install and nothing else. This should be easy to do by looking at the "Program Files" folder.

    Assuming your image is in fact what you think it is: I suggest that you completely erase the hard drive of all 5 partitions and start from scratch. Then restore the image to the drive and let TI create the new partition. Or, create your new OS partition (and nothing else) and restore to that before creating any other partitions. If you run into a boot error after restoring, you will need to fdisc-MBR to clear it up. Further partitioning can be done later with any of the popular partitioning utilities.
     
  6. Limerick

    Limerick Registered Member

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    In fact I've personnally created 2 partitions. The third one is unallocated space.
    The two partitions existing previously are : 78MB (71 free) and 3GB (300MB free). So it is not possible to restore on one of those partitions.

    I'm curently performing an erase with 3 wipping passes and as I never did this before, I'm suprised to see it is planned to last 5 or 6 hours !!!

    I think I will cancel after the first one...
     
  7. rdgrimes

    rdgrimes Registered Member

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    The 78MB Dell partition is some sort of boot loader for doing a Dell restore, probably also contains Dell software for restoring and repairing. You really need to completely wipe everything and start from scratch. (The 3GB Dell partition is the Dell system image.)
     
  8. Limerick

    Limerick Registered Member

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    Yeah I don't care about Dell's boot loader but I'd like to keep the Dell system image (we never know...).

    I've read somewhere that it uses DriveImage file (or maybe a Symantec Ghost 10). Do you know something about it?

    And could the boot loader messes up the TI8 work restoration, or DiskDirector format?

    EDIT : 6 hours for a 15GB partition for 3 passes, is it normal ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2005
  9. Limerick

    Limerick Registered Member

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    Still unable to restore even after a delete/wipe of the partition...
     
  10. bobdat

    bobdat Registered Member

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    1) The moment you altered the Dell drive you forever "broke" the Dell PC Restore partition function. Unless you want to labor through the Goodel fix, you may as well delete it - it's now useless to you.

    2) The 78MB partition is the Dell Diagnostic partition. That will still work even with an altered MBR unless you have modified it. You can boot into it with F12 on startup after the Dell diagnostic quicktests are completed.

    3) The presence or absence of either of these Dell partitions has no effect whatsoever on your TI problems, except maybe to take up a little more space in your TI-created images. I'd keep the 78MB diagnostic partition and dump the 3GB restore image.

    4) sounds like you created quite a mess for yourself. At this point I'd wipe my drive, reformat it and reinstall XP, download and install all the required Dell drivers and updates, reinstall my software and files and only at that point, after it was working satisfactorily, I'd create a TI image of the newly-restructered hard drive for backup purposes.
     
  11. Allen L.

    Allen L. Registered Member

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    He probably doesn't have a OEM XP CD. Dell is not shipping them out now with their computers unless you raise utter h*ll with them about it and they will send you one.

    ...Allen
     
  12. Limerick

    Limerick Registered Member

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    Thanks bobdat an Allen for your help.

    It's what I did first but for an unknown reason, it failed to restore completely my partition C. (But I've perhaps an idea of what has happened... see below)

    An it's what I doing right now. I deleted all partitions of HDD and re-install everything again.

    So what could have happened ? Tell me what you think about it.

    My previous installation was everything on C: except "Documents and Settings" on D:
    Win XP Restoration Feature was on C: but not selected for D:

    I installed and uninstall some softwares but I still had some icons and links after those uninstallation.
    So I decided to use the Win XP Restoration System (which was selected for C: only), but these icons and links were still there.
    So I decided to use TI8 Restoration (for C: only, also), but stil the same.

    So my idea is the following.

    This icons do not come from C:\ program files\software but come from D:\documents and settings\....\software

    This theory could explain everything... And I lost my 78MB partition for Dell Diagnostic Sytem for nothing :(
     
  13. KennethS

    KennethS Registered Member

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    Hi Allen,

    I have a few questions about what you have written...

    First, I do know that if one orders from their website, there is a checkbox for just such a free "accessory." I saw that just a day ago and remember thinking "Who in their right mind would not want that CD...?"

    But beyond that, what might be Dell's motivation? They have already paid for the license for the OS. Surely they are not hoping to save the cost of the CD.

    So how do you understand this?

    Please understand, I am not challenging what you have said. I simply don't understand it.

    Thanks for your thoughts on this,

    Kenneth
     
  14. Allen L.

    Allen L. Registered Member

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    I didn't know they now offered a CD as you say. I have a friend who ordered a Dell on one of their specials and they tried every way to keep from sending him the CD! I know what you mean, but I think it has something to do with Micro$oft also, and not wanting any disk floating around, not matter if they are keyed to the BIOS. I had read on the usenet Dell PC group about the failure to receive a recovery CD, and that others were having problems getting one from the techs with a phone call. They would try and get the owner to burn one from their hidden partition they install. Don't know what would happen if you didn't have a burner. Maybe under pressure they now offer a disk, I would think so.

    You know how these large companies think, if they can save 15 cents a machine, they will go for it. :) Big bucks when you sell millions.

    ...Allen
     
  15. KennethS

    KennethS Registered Member

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    Hmmm, interesting...

    I do wonder if they are actually keyed to the BIOS. I mention that because about a week ago I did a re-install of Windows on a desktop machine and could not locate the Win CD. I used one from my notebook with no problem whatever.

    All the best,

    Kenneth
     
  16. bobdat

    bobdat Registered Member

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    Re: Dell OS CD's:

    1) Currently, Dell includes their hidden diagnostic and restore partitions on all hard drives in lieu of a Windows OS CD in the box.

    2) The Windows OS CD's are optionally available for $10 extra when you purchase your machine.

    3) The Windows OS CD is not keyed to the machine - any CD will do a full install on any machine.

    4) The Windows OS CD is available after you purchase a new machine but only if you have a hard drive failure which prevents your use of the Dell PC Restore partition to reinstall Windows OS. No charge under these circumstances.

    5) My opinion: Lousy OEM policy. Every customer should receive a Windows OS CD for whichever system they purchased without having to beg, lie or threaten to get it.

    :-*
     
  17. Limerick

    Limerick Registered Member

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    Question : does this restore partition contains all advertising, sharewares... etc. as it is at first boot ?

    If it is like that, is it legal to give such a restore XP ?
     
  18. bobdat

    bobdat Registered Member

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    Yes, when you have this partition and use it to restore your hard drive, the system will look exactly like it did when it came out of the box and you first booted it up.

    That includes the OS, all Dell drivers and patches for your machine, all free software and all trial software as well as any software you purchased that was pre-installed.

    I have bought many Dell's and I didn't receive any advertising on any of my hard drives nor did I receive any pop-ups or spyware, either. If you are referring to the trial software, just delete it using the Control Panel->Add or Remove Programs feature.

    As for legality, I think Dell probably already considered all those kinds of things. ;)
     
  19. Limerick

    Limerick Registered Member

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    Yes I was talking about all those trial softwares.
    Norton, for example, leaves many keys in my system even after an Uninstall.
    I did not pay to have all that things even for trying, and don't want to lose time cleaning my system.

    I just want XP, nothing else but XP at first boot :)
     
  20. Allen L.

    Allen L. Registered Member

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    In regard to #3 above, try the Dell disk on a machine other than a Dell and see what happens. If the new disks are anything like the full OS disk that dell *used* to ship with new machines, they were keyed to the motherboards in some way...maybe BIOS, maybe a chip...whatever, they would not install on a non-dell machine. I have a Dim.4100 vintage 1998 that has the recovery CD (which is a full Windows Cd) but it will not install in anything but a Dell.

    Sounds like the same is occuring...as to the laptop's disk recovering a desktop. Although not mentioned, I'll bet the laptop was a Dell.

    ...Allen
     
  21. bobdat

    bobdat Registered Member

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    You may be correct as to what used to happen, I don't know. We may also be talking about two different things.

    I was referring to the OEM Dell/Microsoft Windows OS CD (Microsoft produced) not the Dell OS Recovery CD which the user creates (one time only) by running the Dell program from a new machine.

    I have used this OEM Dell/Microsoft Windows OS CD to install the OS on a several different machines, laptops and desktops, but all Dell with no problems.

    Here's the part number and description of the OEM CD itself:

    "Reinstallation CD Microsoft Windows XP Professional Including Service Pack 2"
    Dell Part #U5183

    This is the full Windows OS CD that Dell now charges $10 for. It is produced and copyrighted by Microsoft Corp. and includes a Microsoft-printed user guide (part #X08-42684) with the notation "For Distribution With A New Dell PC Only".

    I have never tried to use this CD to install Windows to a non-Dell machine so I don't know whether it would work or not.
     
  22. bobdat

    bobdat Registered Member

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    If you just want XP, then you have to reformat and reinstall, as you already know. Just be sure to add the Dell drivers and patches (from the Dell Downloads website) after you install the OS.

    To me, that's a much more time-consuming and inconvenient process than sweeping my registry for a few harmless leftovers.

    But, you never know what one of those leftovers might do in the future, right? :eek:
     
  23. Limerick

    Limerick Registered Member

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    But as you confirmed, if I reinstall the Dell's XP, I'll have all these trial softwares we talked about (there's also 2 ISP connection, one from AOL !)

    I want a "pure", "virgin" XP ;)
     
  24. bobdat

    bobdat Registered Member

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    That's right, all those annoying things like AOL. I wish it were possible to edit the Dell restore image so the feature would work without the programs you don't want because it's fast and easy to be able to reboot and press CTL+F11.

    But, that's what TI8 does for me. In fact, you can create the Dell-like secure zone restore capability with TI8 if you want that type of feature.
     
  25. Allen L.

    Allen L. Registered Member

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    No, we are speaking of the same OEM CD of Windows that Dell sent with it's purchased systems until just the recent past.

    What I was stating is that the Dell CD will not install except on a Dell computer. I've tried with the Win98 version of the Dell CD and others such as Win2000, the same disks you are quoting the part #'s for and they are all keyed by Microsoft to the machine (must be a Dell). The notation "For Distribution With A New Dell PC Only" tips you off to the keyed disk.

    I, like you, do not have any idea what the 'recovery self made CD' is, except I bet it is probably just an image such as Acronis produces of the system at shipping time.

    ...Allen
     
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