Failed UEFI restores to a new HD

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Brian K, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. oliverjia

    oliverjia Registered Member

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    Steven the developer is pretty responsive to feedbacks. About 2 years ago I emailed him to request adding support for UEFI secure boot support (the Ubuntu based versions), and he implemented it pretty quickly (~ a few weeks). If you request it I think he'll fix the problem.
    I've been using Clonezilla (the Ubuntu based version) for many years to image my Ubuntu installations, and every time it works flawlessly. Granted, I only restored to the same disk/partitions.
    Anyway, hope Steven could fix this problem soon.
     
  2. oliverjia

    oliverjia Registered Member

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    Thanks. Looks like I'll stick with Acronis and IFL for now.
     
  3. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    HAN,

    I couldn't restore an image of a UEFI system to an empty HD with Clonezilla. So I didn't get to the booting part.
     
  4. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Add DAYU Disk Master Free 2.8 to the Successful list.
     
  5. andylau

    andylau Registered Member

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    Its GUI looks like a clone of EaseUS:D
     
  6. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Add Drive Cloner Rx 5.1 to the Successful list.

    Edit... A big problem. The image was restored to HD1 instead of HD0. Win8.1 is booting from HD1. I doubt it was my fault as I chose Drive 0 in the recovery environment. I'll check.

    Edit.. Yes, it incorrectly enumerates the drive numbers. It wiped out all my data on HD1. Luckily I have a backup.

    CAUTION.... I wouldn't recommend you use this app to restore an image unless you only have one internal HD (or two HDs with the image on the second). I had three HDs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
  7. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Brian, you raise a good point. I label my drives Primary (C) , Secondary and Tertiary. WHen I restore I don't go by drive labels, or HD number I go by label. I've found different RE's can mess with drive #'s and letters.
     
  8. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Pete,

    I agree. I label my partitions too. But on the Destination Disk screen this recovery environment has no drive letters or partition labels. It is just like this... Disk 2, Partition 0. I got caught the first time. The second time was OK. Having three HDs was my achilles heel. All would have been OK with two HDs as you can't restore an image to the drive containing the image.

    Just a warning for first timers with this app if you have more than two HDs connected to the computer. eg two internal and one external HD.
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Ah that's right. I tested the beta. Even for imaging non Rollback partitions, it was slow as molassses
     
  10. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    It's really not the apps fault at all (well, yes it is :rolleyes:). There is no hard and fast rule as to how Windows (or WinPE) will enumerate those drives. Some folks think the enumeration is done based on MB's SATA port and some think it's based on BiOS BOOT order... both are wrong assumptions. Windows enumerates drives based on the Plug'n'Play inquiries made to find out what devices are out there. Turns out the speed of the device's response will determine the eventual enumeration, also, different versions of Windows along with that response speed will have an effect on enumeration. It's also been experienced that as a drive ages, it's Plug'n'Play response tends to get longer (I have no idea why).

    If the app has a problem, it's in the fact that it presents no other info to determine what drive is really Drive 0 except enumeration info... that can be very dangerous. In the past, drive LABELs (names, not letters) have been the best indication of the drive... they are located on the drive itself and don't rely on any sort of enumeration by Windows. Of course, if they're not labeled, then you have another problem.

    I think you were a victim of the speed differences between your system's OS prior to restoration and the WinPE OS in use by Drive Cloner's Recovery Media... and, of course, little or no useful information from Drive Cloner as to the actual drive in use. Windows disk enumeration is just not very reliable or useful for much of anything.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
  11. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    PS (to above) - in the days of EIDE disks, this was never a problem. EIDE subsystems always offered their MASTER volume first with a delay prior to offering its SLAVE volume... they always came in the right order. With SATA, the inquiries are all thrown out asynchronously and Windows stands back and waits for responses... the 1st one back will be "Drive #0."
     
  12. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Drive Cloner identifies drives by the Hard Drive Model Numbers (Hard Drive Device Name). Of course I hadn't written them down in a book. If you know the numbers you shouldn't make the mistake I experienced.

    My OS drive is........ WDC WD6400AAKS-00A7B2
    My Data drive is.......WDC WD6400AAKS-75A7B0

    You can get these numbers from Device Manager or the BIOS. But some BIOS omit the last 5 numbers which can make it difficult if you have two identical drives, as above.
     
  13. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Most users have no idea what make'n'model HDD they have in their system... and even us unWashed would never think of writing down model #s prior to a restoration :)

    I still think the whole thing sounds pretty dangerous...
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    IF other restore apps can provide the label, the fact that DC can't just reflects poorly on them
     
  15. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Once you know how Drive Cloner works you should be OK but I've never had to use those numbers before. Drive Cloner is unique and I do think it is potentially dangerous. Well, more than potentially in my case.

    You have to know the Hard Drive Model Numbers as there are no drive letters or partition labels in the Restore sequence.
     
  16. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    I forgot to mention the Boot Media only boots in MBR mode, not UEFI mode. So if your computer doesn't allow booting in MBR mode, as my wife's tablet doesn't, you can't restore the image.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
  17. markymoo

    markymoo Registered Member

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    For a GPT(UEFI) hard disk the partition data starts at sector 34 or 2048 in the case of SSD alignment. The first 0-33 sectors(34 sectors total) are used for GPT and a backup copy is stored at the end of the disk, so better chance of data recovery with GPT.

    For the time being Gdisk and mbrwizard CLI tools will backup and restore the GPT with the GPT command
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  18. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Add Ghost 11.5 to the Failure list.
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    You know I thought of that today when I was looking at something. What do you do if you have to disks with the same number. I couldn't begin to use an imaging program that doesn't use labels.
     
  20. HAN

    HAN Registered Member

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    Brian:

    Could you please test Clonezilla again?

    According to the latest version, 20150608-vivid, it has a bug fixed " The error "Unable to find target partition" on uEFI machine when restoring an image was fixed. Newer gdisk/sgdisk (1.0.0) fixes this issue."
     
  21. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    HAN,

    Thanks for the reminder about ver 2.4.2-10

    Add Clonezilla to the success list. Easy.

    A few observations. The UFD didn't boot with Secure Boot enabled. But it still booted in UEFI mode. When I selected sda for the restore I was asked to press the Space bar and see an *. There was no * but everything worked.
     
  22. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Add Keriver Image 521 to the failure list. It doesn't support UEFI.
     
  23. oliverjia

    oliverjia Registered Member

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    Brian, there are two versions of Clonezilla. Please use the Ubuntu based "alternative" download, instead of the main Debain based version. The Ubuntu based version supports UEFI Secure Boot.
     
  24. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    oliverjia,

    I used the stable releases, Ubuntu-based branch. I'll try the "alternative" download.
     
  25. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Correct. clonezilla-live-20150608-vivid-amd64 does support Secure Boot. Thanks for the info.
     
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