Paul, you run NOD32 right? Just curious.. If you want to see a vulnerability with the a certain popular trojan packer and your AV, you should have ran that file I provided linked to you in PM a few days back. Not only does it waltz right past, but it will effectively kill your system. As addressed in this thread: https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=33351 I'm half tempted to reinstall certain AVs and see if they are dealing with the bad guy yet and the bad guys packed within this badguy. I know Ewido, BOClean, and TDS3 added fixes for it. AVK, KAV, McAfee, F-Secure and Norman all picked it up totally - without definitions for the rebased inside and the packer on the outside - the *ONLY* AV's we've tested that could pick it up. F-Secure = YUMMY.. If it was cheaper, i'd of got it, eXpendiaAVK at $29 is far too tempting to ignore..