Eset vs. Anti-Malware.ru

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by Sergey Ilyin, Apr 30, 2008.

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  1. The_Duality

    The_Duality Registered Member

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    I'm not quite sure what to make of this - If it is true, and Sergey has some kind of proof of this, then I will be bitterly disappointed in Eset. Then again, I cannot foresee Eset admitting this is true - it would be a big blow to the marketing of their products; so I doubt we will get a definitive answer on this subject.
     
  2. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

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    I agree. If true, Eset would have problems ever thinking of rebounding back but, it all boils down to Sergey needs to provide proof here. Otherwise it is no different then if I were to make an allegation against you. Innocent until proven guilty here. So to post something like this and not bring the smoking gun accomplishes nothing.

    Let me add, that without proof, it actually questions his credibility. So that is where it stands.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2008
  3. solcroft

    solcroft Registered Member

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    People have shorter memories than you think. Case in point: McAfee's ad campaigns against Dr Solomon and Symantec back during the '90s. And they're still going strong now.

    Personally, I think we need more tests that take ESET off a peg or two, because honestly, that's where they really stand. They have an excellent marketing department, but their tech dept needs a little brushing up on.
     
  4. Nike_P

    Nike_P Registered Member

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    the only problem with ESET is that they can't deal with the truth.
    ESET has been good and almost best, but not now anymore, now other's AV's has control over the future and it's not ESET.
    And that's why ESET is not used to see that they are not the top anymore.'
    ESET are used to score high on detection rate on av-comparatives all the time, and they can not see themself being defeated in some other AV-test's, maybe thats why also?
    Sad for them, go on with the live.:isay:
     
  5. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

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    But you cant take that into consideration in a incident like this. Sergey came here to prove a point, plain and simple. He has stated his case. In the States this is how a civil case would proceed. It is up to the accuser to then provide substantial evidence to prove his claim. If he does he is entitled to compulsory damages. If he fails to, then the other party would then be able to countersue for slanderous and false accusations and be awarded compulsory damages.

    That is why I said earlier that, unless he provides the proof, the thread should be deleted. I mean sure, it makes for great reading, for all of us, but it is wrong. You just cant make a statement like this, and leave it hanging. It is totally unfair, be it right or wrong.

    Or in the South, the way we do it is just go out behind the barn, and beat the hell out of each other.;)
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2008
  6. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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  7. Saraceno

    Saraceno Registered Member

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    I agree with LowWaterMark and trjam.

    A post against ESET should have only been made with facts. Something you can read, and something that you can determine, without doubt, is actually from the source (ESET). Anything else is not facts and could not be used as evidence.

    Besides, anyone can claim to be from ESET.

    Say you're an ESET supporter, or you work in sales for ESET, and you happen to take it upon yourself to slander another company, are you actually doing it with the company's (ESET) consent? This could be someone's own personal cause (if 'something' is actually happening).

    Sergey, no disrespect, but every single anti-virus company in the world is marketing their product as giving 'the best protection', and being the 'number 1 security alternative for a user'. Who is actually telling the truth?

    Claiming ESET's marketing is not telling the truth would be the same as saying every product isn't telling the truth. Every month, every product is varying in consistency, some rise and some fall, some achieve top protection one month, and fail tests the next, it's just the nature of the industry.

    It would be extremely difficult to determine how companies should market their security products, when in any given month one product achieves 100 per cent on one 'certified' test, then fails another 'certified' test that very month...
     
  8. solcroft

    solcroft Registered Member

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    The evidence, if any, should be withheld from a public forum until a suit is filed and they can be shown in court. I don't know how things are done in Russia, but I do think the OP would be wise to hold his cards close to his chest for the time being.
     
  9. Dark Shadow

    Dark Shadow Registered Member

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    Keep In mind hype is marketing and its legal as far as I know, they all do it.But hypothetically If some one accused you of something what would be your words? I bet it would be proof it.Until proof Is presented Its hear say.the rumors always seem to start before the proof.Her is a perfect Example, a Good friend of mine many yrs ago was accused of something but it could be proven,for yrs people looked at him funny and couldn't help and wonder did he do it, or not.Long story short,he was cleared of all wrong doing.
     
  10. wildvirus88

    wildvirus88 Registered Member

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    If it's truth it's important to show it in forums like WIlders and other that we have AV discussion. If it's truth it's important to show it all over the world. I believe it's truth but I'll wait for proofs too.
    ESET will never confirm it (maybe if truth)... The best they can do is give the responsability to Russian ESET and say the ESET doesn't agree with the attitude.
    It's common to minimize tests when they can't get TOP ranking... They do the same with virus.gr...
     
  11. larryb52

    larryb52 Registered Member

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    there's more here than meets the eye & I'll wait till I see a good answer but I have tended to get more suspicous of any AV company now a days, it's a big business & they will do or say anything to make a sale or take a sale away...I'll wait to I see more proof...
     
  12. The Hammer

    The Hammer Registered Member

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    That goes the same for Eset as well. @larryb52 never mind more proof. You haven't seen any at all.
     
  13. subset

    subset Registered Member

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    Apparently their "Packers support test" is meant.
    As far as I can estimate, they only used well known packers/encrypters at their test.
    Now, how should they test the level of protection an AV can offer against packers/encrypters?

    Everyone can pack malware within minutes. Kiddies may use WinUpack, experts may write their unique encrypter.
    So, what? It's done very often to spread malware.
    Every AV should have a solid packers/encrypter support.
    Or is it not allowed to show a weak spots of AVs?

    Otherwise, if you take notepad.exe, pack it for example with Private exe Protector and upload it to virustotal.com, you will see another weak spot of AVs.
    About the half AVs will detect FP. Sus.trojan.crypt.packer or whatever.

    And there is a difference in creating new malware for testing and spreading new malware around the world.
    Packed malware is spreading around the world because of the weakness of AVs, not because of testers.

    Cheers
     
  14. Edwin024

    Edwin024 Registered Member

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    Hear, hear! Great posting Subset!
     
  15. MasterTB

    MasterTB Registered Member

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    Get a life Sergey. If you have proof then show it, if not... this post is bs. nothing more, nothing less.
     
  16. Edwin024

    Edwin024 Registered Member

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    Sergey has a life. And as he claims it's been obstructed by Eset. I do hope that either Sergey or Eset proves that he or they are teling the truth.
     
  17. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    It is not up to Eset to prove anything. Since it is Sergey that is making allegations he is the one with the burden of proof. Besides proving a negative which is what Eset would have to do is almost impossible. For example. If someone were to accuse me of going into say the FBI building here in Washington. That would just be accusation. A photo entering would be proof(maybe). But how would I prove I'd never been there. Almost impossible.

    I know from my own business experience, Eset probably has only one decision, namely do they want to visit the courts. Otherwise for them to say anything is a lose lose situation.

    I have no axe to grind as I don't use any AV product, but in this case I'd have to agree with MasterTB. Since the post was full of accusation with no supporting proof, I'd classify it as fud.

    Pete
     
  18. Nitrous

    Nitrous Registered Member

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    It's confrontation between Sergey and ESET Russia/LETA-IT... not with ESET global.
    Here, in Russia, ESET representatives play a dangerous game - very agressive marketing policy...maybe too agressive. If you want proof of it you'll find it.
     
  19. Dark Shadow

    Dark Shadow Registered Member

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    Well stated peter.
     
  20. Saraceno

    Saraceno Registered Member

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    Many industries are aggressive when the competition is fierce, it's not just limited to the AV (industry).

    You only have to look at automobile manufacturers, the launch of a company's product always seems to be ruined by designs being swiped internally and posted on the net, or designs being stolen and sold to another manufacturer. All you can do is accept people don't always play fair and just move on.
     
  21. solcroft

    solcroft Registered Member

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    Sorry - not for an industry based on integrity and trust, you don't.

    There shouldn't even have been the need for Sergey to post here against ESET. While it's true that we see no evidence, I also see no motives for Sergey to lie. Why only ESET and not other vendors? Where's an ESET spokesperson here to at least give an official statement? Couple those with ESET's reputation of their attitude, and there you have my opinion.
     
  22. Thankful

    Thankful Savings Monitor

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    Marcos has already responded to the accusations.
     
  23. solcroft

    solcroft Registered Member

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    As far as I'm concerned, "Uhh I haven't heard anything about this, hang on lemme go check" followed by silence is not an official statement.
     
  24. Saraceno

    Saraceno Registered Member

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    Solcroft, this will just go round in circles. I don't know what has happened because I don't know the full story, neither do you. My point was, if I were running a company, I'm not going to expect everything to go according to plan, as today it's company A taking cheap shots at me, tomorrow could be company B.

    My opinion, and this applies to anything, an accusation can be worse then the initial action itself.

    In most countries, we have appropriate 'authorities' at our disposal that can take action against a company, so this option should be exhausted first.
     
  25. solcroft

    solcroft Registered Member

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    Nope, so we base our opinions on the facts that are available. At any rate you've formed yours, and so have I.
     
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