Dual booting w/TI V11

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by motiger, May 4, 2008.

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  1. motiger

    motiger Registered Member

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    No matter what I try, I cannot open TI V11 if I have two operating systems on my computer. The dotted line that opens the program gets about half way across and stops. If I wait like 15 minutes to a half hour it eventually works its way across and then opens. Strange!! Not the end of the world but with V10 it was fine. Is this the way it is supposed to be. Am I the only person who has experienced this?
     
  2. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    How are you dual booting, the 'Microsoft' way?
     
  3. motiger

    motiger Registered Member

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    Perhaps I have used the wrong terminology. What I have is two separate partitions each of which have a WinXp OS in them. I rotate them each day to make sure I have an uncorrupted, reliable, up-to-date OS. You see I have had problems with ASZ images turning out to be corrupt in the past. This way I know I have a tested OS should I need one. Perhaps a bit paranoid but it works for me. The only problem is the one I mentioned.
     
  4. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    No, you have used the right terminology.

    When you click My Computer can you see both XP drives? If so you have set up your dual boot 'the Microsoft way'. As a way of dual booting it works fine, but I had no end of problems with ATI 11 when I had a similar setup, culminating in an unbootable system when I had to do a restore 'in anger'.

    Your setup may or may not explain the slow starting of ATI 11, but I would strongly advise you either to remove one of the two systems or change your method of dual booting so that the active XP system cannot see the inactive one.
     
  5. motiger

    motiger Registered Member

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    Yes, I do use the MS way...and both are viewable on the >my computer>manage>disk management screen. I am quite interested in setting it up as you suggested...so that one is not viewable from the other. Can you explain that to me or can you refer me to some literature that would walk me through that. I hate to go back to V10 but I also don't like not having the back up as I described. Any help you could be would be very much appreciated.
     
  6. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    My setup was Vista+XP rather than XP+XP, and I was guided through the process by k0lo on the Acronis Disk Director forum here. It did not go without problems but we got there eventually and I could not be more pleased with the end result.

    If you really want to go down this road, and I would strongly recommend you to do so, then you would need a method of repartitioning your disk in order to create a data partition or partitions that can be used by whichever OS is active. For this purpose I used Disk Director, which also turned out to be indispensable in the main task too. It isn't free so that's a consideration.

    If you still want to go ahead then I suggest you start a thread in the DD forum. If you want a taster then here's the thread that got my system sorted, though unfortunately it got complicated by the problems that came up along the way.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=207391
     
  7. motiger

    motiger Registered Member

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    Oh my you are much braver than I. Perhaps I will just make a couple of images each day in the hopes that one will be there when I need it. Going back to V10 is also an option. I do have disk director and its a great program but I don't want to chance "really" screwing up my boot capabilities. I have an external HD....one image there and one in ASZ might work. Thanks so much for fleshing out the considerations.
     
  8. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    haha! I'm sure that most conversions are a doddle compared with mine. maybe I shouldn't have given you the link - it's enough to deter even the bravest.

    The thing is, you are doing all this imaging without knowing whether it will actually work should you need it to. At the very least I think you should do a restore - preferably to a spare hard disk. Until you've done that ....
     
  9. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    The way I went about this initially, i.e. before installing a bootloader, was to use DD to control the boot settings. It is simple and it worked so well I wasn't even convinced I needed a boot manager at all.

    The only prerequisites are that both OS partitions are primary, and both contain the necessary boot files. This could be achieved by using the ATI rescue CD to image XP on a primary partition and restoring it to the other OS partition. Then, without booting into Windows, booting to the DD CD and setting one OS hidden and the other active.

    I hope if I've omitted anything that one of the experts will jump in and correct me, but you could take it this far to give you confidence in the process.
     
  10. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Usually, when you dual-boot XP the MS way, you end up with one being assigned C: and the other gets a different letter (like F:, for example). The booting files remain on the C: partition. This can make separating them difficult because you have to retain the "F:" letter in the separated booting system. To fix assignment problems, you can't just clear the MountedDevices entry and reboot because XP will try and assign C: to it and it won't boot. Also, when restoring a partition setup this way, it can cause the same problems. When you have multiple Windows installations, keeping them all as "C:" makes it easier all the way around.

    Vista is actually easier because it will take C: by default even if there's another Windows already installed.

    ----

    motiger,

    Since you have DD already, you could keep the "C:" XP as the Active booting one and use DD to Hide the other XP partition.

    Load TI and see if you still get the delay. It may not have anything to do with the way your dual-boot system is setup.

    Do you have any other USB drives connected (iPOD, etc.)?

    Do you have a lot of unused entries in the registry's MountedDevices key? You might try cleaning it up and see if it helps.

    Does DD exhibit any problems starting in either XP (assuming you have it installed in both)?
     
  11. motiger

    motiger Registered Member

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    The idea of hiding one of my OS is interesting...at least to the extent that it could solve my problem. It seems worth a try. I do have an Ipod and it works well. The mounted devices key is a new one for me. I'm not sure where to find that but I will explore that a bit too. DD behaves just as ATI on the same partition. To use it I have to go to safe or boot using the rescue disk. I am also unfamiliar with a boot manager. Is that software? Or some type of boot sector instructions. Where is there information around about that. Sorry for the delay in getting back. It was a beautiful day in St. Louis yesterday.
     
  12. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    Mortiger:

    As your understanding of the boot process is at about the same level mine was before k0lo took me in hand I suggest the best thing for you to do initially is try MudCrab's suggestion of using DD to hide one of your two XP installations to see whether this then has any effect on your ATI boot problem.

    I've got an XP laptop with loads of unused capacity and I'm quite tempted to try to put my newly acquired knowledge to the test by emulating your setup and playing about with it. It's time consuming though, and as that's a scarce commodity it won't happen overnight - especially as the forecasters are telling us we're going to have a fine spell here too! Tell me, are both XP partitions primary or is one in an extended logical partition, and do you also have a shared data partition or are your personal files kept on the system drives?
     
  13. motiger

    motiger Registered Member

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    Greetings! My arrangement is/was terribly simple. I did an image of my current C drive and restored it to an I drive then just checked to make sure it was bootable and operational and then left it alone. I knew I could boot to it and it was good. Then Acronis tempted me with V11...alas thus beginnith my problems. I don't use a shared data partition...it seems that would take lots of sorting and judgements about what belonged where....and I had two primary partition when I was doing this with V10. I know this is pretty work intensive but there is nothing quite as frustrating as having a corrupt image show up just when you need it the most. I'm flattered that you might feel my approach has merit. Acronis has some wonderful stuff but a great deal of it is over my head.

    Have a great Monday....
     
  14. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    ah, don't misunderstand me, I actually don't think your setup has a lot going for it at all, especially without a shared data partition, but I would like to see how ATI 11 behaves in that situation, and I want to play around to find the best way of managing such a setup. If anything at all useful should emerge I'll let you know. :)
     
  15. motiger

    motiger Registered Member

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    I guess I don't understand the value of a shared data partition as it relates to my own situation. Oh well I have taken up enough of your time. Have a nice day.
     
  16. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    The idea is that you relocate (in both systems) the Special Folders - Favorites, My Documents, My Music etc onto a third partition. You also set all your apps -Office etc to load and save to locations on that same partition. It then makes no difference which OS you boot to, as both will be using the same data files and Favorites. Such a setup also greatly simplifies the backup process, both for the OS partitions and for your data.

    In your present setup, if you should boot to your 'reserve' OS you are going to have a bit of a game getting everything working as it did in OS1 and if you were to hide one OS then the other would not be able to access any data files on the first.
     
  17. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    This was the statement that intrigued me, simply because I could not understand how doing that would create a dual boot system. How did you boot it, and how did you know it had booted, and that it was not the original system that you were seeing? They were identical after all.

    I have replicated this procedure, and checked in DD to see which system was marked Active. Whatever you do it is always the original system that is Active, and if you hide the original system in DD and attempt to boot from the clone, you get an error 'autochk is missing', followed by a bsd.

    So you really need to revisit this, as I'm afraid it is not possible to boot the clone in that setup.

    EDIT - forgot to say that TI wasn't affected in this setup and worked normally.

    EDIT2 - I think this can be resolved by installing a boot manager. I'll have a look at it.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2008
  18. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    motiger:

    You possibly no longer have any interest in this thread, but I did go on to install a boot manager to make both the original and clone independently bootable. Post back if you are interested.
     
  19. motiger

    motiger Registered Member

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    I am interested. Quite! I have been toying with hiding a partition and that works toward solving my problem but still working the booting of a hidden partition out. Should have some time to devote to it today.
     
  20. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    That's good news!
    and that's where the boot manager comes in!

    Presumably atm you can't hide the original XP and boot from the clone?
     
  21. motiger

    motiger Registered Member

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    Well I haven't run a sufficient number of trials for me to feel good about saying this but I think I have the boot situation worked out too. I have said things like that in the past only to find out I was premature. After adding the new image to the partition I leave it unhidden so that I can check it and then I hide it with DD and reboot to C Drive. It then just stays there hidden and my ATI and DD open just fine. If it turns out that I need the hidden partition I can unhide it and have been successful in getting winxp to "letter" it with the same letter and booting it with full capabilities. As I said, however, I am still interested in learning about this boot manager idea because I am still shakey about whether or not I can depend on this program working when I need it. I will have to run several more trials to make sure its a solid approach. So if you would please describe or refer me to the information about boot manager. Don't worry about being too elementary about your descriptions.
     
  22. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    motiger:

    What you have to prove is that the 'clone' can boot when it can't see the original. By leaving the original unhidden you are allowing the clone to use the original's boot files. That isn't what you need. You need it to be able to boot without assistance.

    So hide the original first and then reboot. When you come back with the answer to that we can start moving forward. We can't with your present setup.
     
  23. motiger

    motiger Registered Member

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    Your comments make sense but doesn't it also make sense that if C is hidden Windows would look for the boot.ini file in the I drive (clone) which is now unhidden. I haven't tried that but again it just seems reasonable. Can I assume that you tried this and ran into problems? I have some other issues to work on for the rest of today but am still interested in your boot manager idea. If you feel guilty about using the forum for my personal education as I do, I can be reached at brock13@hotmail.com. Feel free to use it.
     
  24. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    You will just have to test it for yourself, but it won't boot. It's all in #17

    I'm quite happy to assist you through the forum, as k0lo did for me, but I need you to see for yourself that your present setup cannot work before we move on to how to rectify it.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2008
  25. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

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    mortiger:

    I do need to satisfy myself that your setup can work under a boot manager before trying to take this further. However, although I can get each system to boot when the other is hidden, there are numerous very obvious problems with the 'clone' system. TI, DD and even My Computer take far too long to come up, and my network connections aren't working either.

    MudCrab was warning us earlier that we might have problems with two XP systems on the same disk, and it seems he was quite right. What works with Vista + XP definitely does not work with XP + XP.

    I believe your best course of action would be either to remove the clone system and rely on TI for recovery, or to install a second XP system on a separate disk. I do not believe there is any point at all in continuing with your present approach, though you should get a second opinion on this.

    Sorry.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2008
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