CyberPower UPS units

Discussion in 'hardware' started by Oleg, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. Oleg

    Oleg Registered Member

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    Do any of you here own a CyberPower UPS unit(s).?

    It's a good alternative to APC units. Even more stable.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  2. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    They are all I am using right now. I like the fact they have sine wave power output.
     
  3. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Good alternative? Yes. More stable? No. That is not suggesting APC is more stable.

    The only thing I can say about APC over Cyberpower is I still have every APC UPS I have ever owned - and I have had a UPS on all my computers for 25 years. My first UPS, an APC SmartUPS 900, I have had since 1991 and it is still chugging along in my garage providing backup power to my garage door opener.

    The two Cyberpower, one Belkin, one Tripp Lite I bought (because they were cheaper than APC) have all failed on me after 6 or 7 years. So I only buy APC now, even though they do cost more. That said, I have some friends who have had no problem with their Cyberpower UPS so I might have just had some bad luck.

    Oddly, 10 years ago I bought a 1500VA "Geek Squad" branded UPS from Best Buy for my home theater audio gear and big screen TV and it is still working just fine.

    Pure sine wave output is nice, but really it is more of a marketing gimmick because, except for highly sensitive, precision measuring and medical monitoring equipment, consumer electronics tolerate and can operate just fine with sine wave "approximation" or "stepped" sine wave power from a UPS. And quality PSU can easily compensate from such minor anomalies - as they have for many years. And we all buy decent PSUs, right?

    I note that pure sine wave output is only a recent feature that has become popular in the last few years only because it has become affordable. In the past, pure sine wave output was only found on very expense ($400+) UPS - yet computers including servers, network gear, and other devices have worked just fine for years with standard UPS - in spite of what pure sine wave marketing weenies want us to believe.

    My point is, don't buy one UPS over another just be it has pure sine wave output.

    One thing to note, I never - as in NEVER EVER buy replacement batteries from the UPS maker. They are extremely overpriced and no better than what you can find on line.
     
  4. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    I have several CyberPower 1300KVA pure-sine units. Very pleased.
    Mrk
     
  5. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    More important than pure sine wave is whether the UPS and attached computers will be happy with generator power. In my experience, dual conversion is necessary for that. Because it cleans up dirty waveform, and variable voltage and frequency. That's especially problematic when there are other messy loads. Such as motors. But maybe I just didn't try the right pass-through UPS.
     
  6. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Generator power? We are talking home users here where very few have the luxury of backup generators.

    You are right, however, in that if the UPS sees the output of the generator as too "dirty", the UPS will generally kick over (or stay kicked over) to battery power. This may be a problem with extended power outages.

    BTW, this "dirty" power issue is why you should NEVER plug a UPS into a surge and spike protector and you should NEVER plug a surge and spike protector into a UPS (look in your UPS manual - I bet its in there). Under normal use, the output of a surge and spike protectors can appear dirty, with "clamped" waveforms where the tops of the line voltage sine wave is chopped off and flat (similar to a square wave). If the UPS is plugged into the surge and spike protector, the input power monitoring circuits in the UPS may see this as too dirty and switch over to battery unnecessarily.

    If the surge and spike protector is plugged into the output/battery side of the UPS, the UPS output monitoring circuits may see this as an unstable load and shutdown the UPS completely.
     
  7. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    In some places where I've lived, a backup generator was no luxury :) No power meant no water, no heat or hot water (even with propane), no light, no etc :( And no computers :( Small propane-powered generators only cost ~1000 USD. And there's virtually no upkeep.
     
  8. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Hey, I live in Tornado alley and more than once I've been without power for several days. So I understand the need for backup power. While it may not be a luxury for many, $1000 is no chump change. And most homes don't have it.
     
  9. quietman

    quietman Registered Member

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    Backup power , off-grid living , "boondocking " ..... living in difficult situations regarding mains power ?

    Check out "Handy Bob" , he covers all of the power issues mentioned above , and so much more .

    Have a read , although there is quite a lot of it !

    "Handy Bob" certainly has some strongly held opinions regarding power options , but he is rarely wrong , IMO :)

    Anyway it is good weekend reading , if you are into taking control of your primary power supply .
     
  10. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Maybe 200-300 USD for a small one, even less if Chinese ;)
     
  11. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Are UPS devices must haves? BTW, I never heard of CyberPower, so thanks for the tip.
     
  12. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    You don't have to spend that much. I have the previous generation of this APC 1500VA (which is not small by any means) and it supports my computer, wireless router, modem, 4-port switch, home phone, plus TWO 24 inch LCD monitors with plenty of room to spare. It will keep everything running full speed for 25 minutes, 35 if I turn off one monitor. And if I shut down my computer and monitors, it will keep my network (and house phone) alive for over 8 hours so I can still connect to the outside word via my wireless devices and phone).
    IMO, all computer's should be on a good UPS with AVR (automatic voltage regulation). You may never need it, but like good car, home or health insurance, if you do need it due to some unexpected emergency, you are glad to have it.
     
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Rasheed

    Here in DC, my power is pretty dirty. I can hear the changes in the AC unit. So good power regulation is vital to protect the computers.
     
  14. itman

    itman Registered Member

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    We bought hundreds of the Cyberpower units at work a few years back. Definitely cheaper than APC but quality is not the same; a lot of failed units.
     
  15. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    That's discouraging.
     
  16. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    For me, rural roads and snow storms. Lines can go down for weeks. Low population density means bottom of repair worklist :(
     
  17. Reality

    Reality Registered Member

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    I agree it's important to have a good UPS, especially if you're rural as I am, and have dirty power, like spikes, dips, sags, brown outs - you name it. We have lots of outages for all sorts of reasons like nutjobs hitting power poles with regular monotony, to storms and what not. It's saved my butt numerous times. Mines an APC smart ups 1000 with 8 inputs. Had it for well over a decade. It wasn't cheap, but I needed something good for the equipment loaded onto it. APC replacement batteries are a crippling and ridiculous price here. 3rd party batteries are the way to go and I've found (except in one case), they last the usual 5 years or close to it. Anyway it's still going strong. I take precautionary measures though. I always unplug if there's a storm brewing, I don't leave my equipment on overnight. If everything was on, I'd get about 12minutes uptime, although that was when I had 2 CRT monitors. With the LCD there's much less power draw and so increased uptime.

    It's important to size your UPS for your needs.
     
  18. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Or use laptops like I do. I am also rural with blackouts the norm when storms are about.

    My next machine may well be a desktop and I will definitely buy a UPS at that time.
     
  19. Reality

    Reality Registered Member

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    Yep LT's let you off the hook to a certain degree, but DTs are more suited to what I do, hence more need for a good UPS.
     
  20. Karlinski

    Karlinski Registered Member

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    A UPS with pure sine wave output is more than nice. Sometimes it is essential, depending on your PSU.
    Many new power supplies have active power factor correction (PFC) and do not work well with a UPS which produce a stepped sine wave output. For these PSU a non-sine waveform can cause a shutdown, defeating the whole purpose for having a UPS.

    Here's a few links:
    https://www.dougv.com/2010/03/active-pfc-enabled-psus-are-not-compatable-with-most-low-end-ups/
    https://superuser.com/questions/912679/when-do-i-need-a-pure-sine-wave-ups
     
  21. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Rural really has nothing to do with it. I live in a big metropolitan area - but in one of the oldest areas in my state. My house is pushing 60 years old and is one of the newer homes on the block. So power lines are on poles and there are many HUGE and old trees everywhere. We've had severe storms come through taking out power to 100,000 homes or more and even with help coming in from surrounding states, it has taken several days before power was restored. Of course, that is of little help because no UPS will hold power for days - fortunately, most power outages are little more than "flickers".
    Then those are cheap, poorly designed supplies which never should be been used in the first place.

    PFC is not new, but is more commonly used (required in the EU). But a well designed PSU can easily tolerate stepped sine wave output from a "good" UPS with AVR. And a "good" UPS can easily tolerate a PFC PSU.

    As I noted above, I have a UPS on all my systems (and my home theater gear and big screen TV) and have for over 25 years. None are pure sine wave and they all work just fine.

    So I stand by what I said, and pure sine wave is nice, but not essential. If it was, APC would have gone out of business years ago!

    The bottom line here is with UPS, like PSUs, don't buy cheap ones! Get a quality PSU and a "good" UPS with AVR. We all know that getting a quality PSU helps ensure good, clean stable power for our computer components. Well a "good" UPS provides better regulation and a fast cutover time.

    Don't get me wrong, when I'm in the market for a new UPS, I will look at pure sine wave because their prices have come down to make them much more affordable. But I will not dismiss a good deal on quality UPS with AVR just because it does have a pure sine wave output.
     
  22. kC_

    kC_ Registered Member

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    Cyber power stuff is uh unreliable.. get apc
     
  23. Reality

    Reality Registered Member

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    Unless you're talking solely about uptime in a power outage (not short sags dips etc), in my case rural has everything to do with it. I can assure you most of our power issues involve a lot more than mere flickers, though they happen often enough. Thankfully my UPS has AVR trim and AVR boost in dealing with those.
     
  24. jwcca

    jwcca Registered Member

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    For anyone that has to deal with extended power outages, they can "build their own" UPS.

    I'd had many APC units, from the initial 400KVA up to the 1400KVA Smart. They were reliable until the batteries died and had to be replaced. But even the 1400 could only run my system for about 90 minutes until it hit a 10% charge level at which point they shutdown to protect the batteries.
    That was simply an issue with the power required and the size of the Gel batteries.

    Since I live in a rural area and power could be off for 3 to 7 hours, I decided to "build my own".

    In 2002 I bought an Exel pure sine wave inverter, a Xantrex charger and a PulsePower desulphator plus two LifeLine AGM batteries.

    As recently as 2014 I ran a test that showed it took 6 hours to deplete the batteries to 51% capacity and they still perform that way today in 2016. Those batteries are now 14 years old. The reason is that they are AGM, the charger has an AGM setting and the desulphator prevents buildup of 'crud' on the plates.

    The cost back then in 2002 was $1,300USD which included buying the wiring and other stuff to connect everything together.
    Had I kept with the APC I would have had to replace the Gel batteries at least a couple of times.
    The prices today are actually less for comparable equipment.
    If an outage is 'extremely long', I can simply use the system, then shut it down, and repeat until the power is back, even if that's days later.
     
  25. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I am afraid you missed my point - primarily because I didn't explain it carefully or thoroughly. We are actually on the same page here.

    To be sure, backup power during a power outage (even short ones like "flickers") is just a bonus when comes to having a "good" UPS with AVR. For sure, it is the AVR - automatic voltage regulation that makes a UPS so important. I agree, flickers are uncommon. I was just using that as something most people have seen for themselves.

    BTW, the ATX Form Factor standard requires all PSUs to have a "Hold-up" time of at least 17ms. That is, they must maintain output for at least 16ms during low voltage events that cause the input voltage to the PSU to drop below 90VAC (180VAC with 220 - 250VAC mains). 17ms is MUCH faster than the human eye and brain can detect. And a fast "flicker" is about 30ms. So if you "see" a flicker, your computer already crashed! :( And if you read PSU reviews, you will note even some of best rated supplies barely meet, or even fail to meet that 17ms standard! :(

    As you noted, a "good" UPS with AVR will protect our connected devices from surges and spikes, as well as dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) and brownouts (long duration sags. These "low" voltage anomalous events are common and no surge and spike protector can do anything about them but let them pass, or cut power (just as they do with extreme surges and spikes).

    Surges, spikes, dips, and sags happens frequently every day, day in and day out - and they constantly bang, bang, bang on the regulator circuits of our motherboards and power supplies of all the connected devices. This causes wear and tear, increases heat generation in those devices, which increases aging. Stability can be affected too. Sudden, unexplained shutdowns and reboots are often cause by power anomalies that could be negated with a "good" UPS with AVR.

    For those not aware, a "good" UPS with AVR uses the batteries to boost the voltage during those low voltage events - again something no surge and spike protector can do.

    This is why, IMO, a surge and spike protector is nothing more than a fancy and expensive extension cord! :(

    And my point about living in a rural environment is that you don't have to live in a rural environment to experience any of these destructive anomalies. As I noted, I live in the Omaha metro - the most populous region in Nebraska - not rural at all and we experience these anomalies often.

    And contrary to what many believe and would like for us to believe, if you live in Germany or other parts of the EU, or parts of the world with a relatively new infrastructure, or a place without severe weather, you still are NOT immune to power anomalies. Those coming off "the grid" may not be as common, but they do still happen. But ALSO, it is critical to note that destructive surges and spikes do NOT have to originate from "the grid". The can and do come from faulty high wattage appliances like a microwave oven or vacuum cleaner (things with big motors can be the worst offenders!) in the same house.

    Do NOT trust that $15 1500W hair dryer made in some obscure, back-woods factory in China using forced, often underage :mad: :( :'( :mad::mad: labor under the supervision of corrupt factory owners and more corrupt government regulators using parts made in a sister factory up river! A faulty device can just as easily send a destructive surge or spike into the circuit your computer is plugged into just as easily as a destructive anomaly can come off the grid.
     
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