Compressed snapshots - incompatible?

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by wilbertnl, Jun 17, 2006.

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  1. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Hello Gang!

    I'm not asking for support, I just want to share some experience (relax, Peter).

    So, I did install the Leapfrog 1.10 build 169 and I converted my snapshots to compressed snapshots.

    I'm tester of beta software for TrendMicro Internet Security software and in that role I have to provide logfiles to TrendMicro.
    Well, today I found out that in a compressed snapshot the logfiles are not created at all, also not when FD-ISR is uninstalled.
    I checked this with running the same test in an not-compressed snapshot, where the logfiles are created.

    Isn't that interesting?
     
  2. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Wilbertnl

    Let me review to make sure I've got it.

    FDISR(leapfrog) compressed snapshot: No Log
    FDISR(leapfrog) regular snapshot: Log
    FDISR totally uninstalled : No Log


    That makes absolutely no sense which just confirms it's a beta test:D

    Couple of idea's, thoughts, questions come to mind

    How about before you installed the leapfrog version, did you see the same thing?
    Where does Trend Micro write the log file?
    Poke around your drives root directory (C:\) and see what you see.(don't ask what to look for, I don't know, but the root directory can affect FDISR)
    Any registry setting that controls logging in Trend Micro?
    Any advanced logging features.
    When you compared uninstalled with installed but with no compression, did you completely uninstall(remove snapshots)
    Is this repeatable?

    Lastly and I say this in all seriousness, based on experience start with the illogical, rather then the logical, and you are more likely to find an answer.

    Pete(relaxed, but scratching his head):D
     
  3. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Tiny correction: FDISR totally uninstalled, NTFS compression still enabled : No Log

    The logfile is written as c:\UnpackTime.log.
    Maybe this is not related to FD-ISR, I can only find out by zeroing my harddisk and then do the TrendMicro run in a freshly installed Windows without any FD-ISR, with and without NTFS compression.

    Anyway, the anticipated NTFS compression might have unforseen side effects, would you not agree?
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Could be. Do I understand that compressing a snapshot turns on NTFS compress for the whole disk? If true not sure that thrills me to much.

    As an aside don't let to many files build up in your root directory. I don't know if they have fixed that issue yet.

    Pete
     
  5. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Not for the whole disk, but for all folders in the compressed snapshot.
    (If all your snapshots are compressed, that would basically mean that the whole disk is compressed.)

    Here you see the effect:
    Compressed or encrypted files/folders show in color blue.

    http://www.geocities.com/wilbertnl/images/fd-isr_compressed.png
     
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hmm. Tells me we have to be careful about what we do, or could be a big mess.

    Have you figured out anything about the missing logs?
     
  7. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Maybe I wasn't clear in the first entry, but the required logfiles are created in a not-compressed file system.
    So, I was able to finish what I have to do, I just wanted to share my experience.
     
  8. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Is an ACTIVE snapshot also compressed?
    I thought compression was only for non-active snapshots and archived snapshots.
     
  9. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Yes sir.
    From the Leapfrog website: (http://www.leapfrogsoftware.com/support_info/updates/)
     
  10. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    As far as I understand FDISR will become a mixture of compressed and not compressed snapshots, which means that source and target snapshot can be either compressed or not compressed.

    For instance :
    1. refreshing where source = compressed snapshot and target = not compressed snapshot
    2. refreshing where source = compressed snapshot and target = compressed snapshot
    3. refreshing where source = not compressed snapshot and target = not compressed snapshot
    4. refreshing where source = not compressed snapshot and target = compressed snapshot
    Let's hope it works. :D
     
  11. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    This is the current situation in version 1.05 build 166, would you not agree?
    You are able to test all the other situations by creating one or two folders with NTFS compression enabled in your data partition and test all situations by copying files to your liking. :cool:
     
  12. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    So, let's say:
    • your Primary Snapshot is uncompressed
    • you copy your Primary to a Secondary Snapshot, which is compressed
    • then, the Primary you're operating in go south, bites the dust
    • then, you boot into your Secondary
    • then, you copy your Secondary into your Primary
    • then, you boot back into the refreshed Primary
    Is any part of the new Primary compressed (that wasn't before) ?

    If not, then it appears the above procedure would be the preferred route for recovering the Primary if you want no compression in the Primary or any of the potential conflict or problems with software like Trend Micro PC-cillin Internet Security (which I hold two licenses for).
     
  13. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Yes, I agree.
    I've been playing with two test folders, uncompressed and compressed, but all files keep their size, compressed (blue) or uncompressed (black).
    There should be a difference in size or am I missing something ?
     
  14. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    Yes, Explorer will display the uncompressed size. If you want to see the difference between compressed and uncompressed, check the "properties" of the file and compare "size" to "size on disk".
     
  15. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Right. The properties show the difference. Thanks.
     
  16. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    What is the size of the folders that contain these files?
     
  17. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    I have not tested this scenario, but it might show you something:
    (For rainy sunday afternoons)

    Assuming you use version 1.05 build 166.

    1. Create a empty snapshot.
    2. Uninstall FD-ISR, keep the snapshots. The C:\$ISR folder structure will be visible and accessible.
    3. Look in C:\$ISR for the 1,2,3,4,5-folder that is EMPTY.
    4. Enable NTFS compression for that particular folder.
    5. Install FD_ISR.
    6. Copy a regular snapshot or archive into the empty snapshot that you created in step 1 and compressed in step 4.
    7. Calculate the snapshot size of the NTFS compressed snapshot and compare that with the source.
    8. Boot into the compressed snapshot and play!
     
  18. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    It's OK. Crofftk showed me how to read the normal size and compressed size.
     
  19. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Situation
    Snapshot-01 = 3.09 gb ($ISR/0)
    Shapshot-02 = 3.57 gb ($ISR/1)

    1. Created an empty snapshot
    2. Snapshot-03 = 0.00 gb ($ISR/2)
    3. Uninstalled FDISR (programs only)
    4. Compressed $ISR/2
    5. Re-installed FDISR
    6. Copy/Update from Snapshot-02 (3.57gb) to Snapshot-03 = empty and compressed (blue)
    7. Calculate Snapshot-03 = 3.57 gb
    So it has the same size as snapshot-02

    Rebooted in snapshot-03 and it worked.

    MS Windows Explorer shows :
    A blue C:\RECYCLER (Folder)
    A blue C:\$ISR\2 (Folder = snapshot-03)
    A blue C:\$ISR\$ISR (file)
    The rest seems to be black.
     
  20. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Hm,
    \Documents and Settings, \Program Files and \Windows should be blue too.

    When I have a compressed folder in my data partition and I create a new folder in it (with Windows Explorer), the new folder is compressed too.
    But it seems that your snapshot-3 is not compressed. The calculated size is equal to the source.

    So, this is what I learned from your test, ErikAlbert (thank you):
    I open the CMD window and change to the compressed folder. And in that compressed folder I create a new folder (md folder).
    That new folder, created by other means than Windows Explorer, is not compressed.
    So, the ISRcontrol.exe of build 166 is not aware of the compression attribute, and the 169 version is.

    Surprising, because I thought that the NTFS driver would handle that.
     
  21. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Yes, it was a good idea, but it was a flop LOL.
    Meanwhile I recovered my system partition with ATI, just to be safe.
     
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