Windows 7 Ultimate. I have been using Macrium Free, and although I might make use of some of the paid version features, I put off buying it, but cannot remember why. When I was looking into it, there was something that was coming up in the next version that I wanted to wait for, so I held off. I guess I am still holding off, I haven't really looked into it since I know a lot of users here make an image of thier system with all thier stuff installed, and even thier data like photos/videos/music etc. I chose not to have images that big, so I handle my data differently. TBH, I cannot imagine making an image of anything but the OS itself. But that is just me Sul.
i keep 3 images: - one right after the reformat and OS install - one after the initial Windows Updates or Service Pack (because it takes time to download/install all this stuff) - and one after all my apps and system is fine tuned. that image gets deleted and another new one is created, maybe once a week or every 2 weeks.
Thank you moontan for helping me and help me trying to learn imaging. Yes, the above make sense. And, now I see that cold imaging make sense too. But I am still stuck which imaging program to use and rely on it.
Dear Sul, Thank you for your candid reply and being one of those who have taught me a lot. The reason for asking your operating system was that I have nine comptuers at home (2 desktops and 7 laptops) and this doesn't include Kindles and iPads. All of them have Windows 7 x64 Home Premium, except two, one has Windows 7 x64 Professional and the other one has Windows 7 x86 Home Premium. Now I will ask question below. I like the idea about Virgin Imaging like you suggested above, and also has been suggested by both Noob and moontan. Now my question. For each computer in above do I need to make a Virgin Image or I can make a Virgin Image from one and use it on all the other six Windows 7 x64 Home Premium? Many thanks in advance! Thank you for your kindness. Best regards, KOR!
I tried most all others. Eventually always a failure, hang or corruption. I use EASEUS Todo Backup Free. So easy & reliable. Ime better than all.
I also own EASEUS Todo Workstation. It has snapshot technology, and on my third restore from snapshot, it ruined my default configuration on my hard disk from 63 sectors to 19 sectors. Worked with their support for almost two weeks, as the snapshot technology wouldn't work anymore due to less than 63 sectors. Tried to restore the image done with almost five programs and still ended up with 19 sectors. In the end had to reformat. Kind regards, KOR!
I would image each separately, because of different hardware/drivers and licenses. If the hardware are identical and license is multi-user (or you just don't care about M$), then you should make one image.
Thanks J_L, I gathered so, and thank you for confirming this. All the computers came with Windows 7 pre-installed on them as OEM Windows. Best regards, KOR!
I don't depend on snapshots, incrementals or whatever a program names them. They FAIL. All of them eventually. I just take an compressed image. If I need it I just install it. It's easy here I have separate partitions for OSs & data. So an image is less 14GB compressed. Easy peasy.
The EASEUS Todo Workstation has two technologies in it, imaging technology and snapshot technology. The Free version has only the imaging technology, and I had to buy the Paid version for the snapshot technology, as it is not available in the trial version. Money down the drain. Also, somewhere I read on this forum that they had problem with their imaging technology too. Yes, I also keep my OS and data on separate partitions too! Best regards, KOR!
i don't think it would work because of the computers having different hardware. and it would mean a whole bunch of those Windows would fail activation because they'd have the same Windows serial numbers.
Thank you all for helping me and trying to properly understand imaging. One more question for the experts. Do you image the 100MB system reserved area? Many thanks, KOR!
I have acronis setup to image both the 100mb system partition plus my c: partition. I dont if its necessary to image it but i do just in case. And to those who consider imaging useless. On my laptop which runs windows xp, it would take me many hours to reinstall windows, update it, tweak it and then install my fav apps. With my imaging program in can do this in 2 minutes. I'd say thats far from being useless.
This will be a long reply, so for those just skimming, you might want to scroll now There are many methods to use for imaging and backups. But there is a difference between backing up data and backing up the OS isntall. Sometimes the difference is blurred and fuzzy. When I hear of users backing up 80gb of data, I think external drive and somewhat permanent storage. Making sure your photos etc are "safe" somewhere other than just your main hdd. Sometimes I hear about someone who made an image of thier 80gb worth of photos, and they put that on an external drive. Not much difference really at that point, the data is backed up. Then I hear of those who image thier OS and thier data, and use that to restore. Sometimes you hear about traditional imaging like ghost type stuff, and sometimes you hear about rollback or snapshotting. People use the technology different, and there is no right and wrong way to do it. But lets just take the viewpoint that data is important to keep, and call data photos, music, documents, etc. And lets call the OS simply the OS installed. Now that we have a distinction between data and OS, which is important, which is not? Why do we make a distinction? For me, I have data that I don't want to lose, but most of it is not required on a daily basis. I want to safeguard this data. In many instances users store thier data on thier OS drive. Some like to have a partition of the drive and segregate the data, which is good for management but really not much better for keeping it safe. Some use another internal hdd or external hdd, which can be better than putting it on the OS drive. At some point you have to trust that a hdd will be "safe" and not fail, for if it fails (dies), there goes all your data. A better approach would be to store data on a mirrored raid array, which gives varying degrees of safety, depending on what version of raid and how many disks are attached. Ultimately though the best scenario would be to store data in more than one location, preferably at two different physical locations. Ok, so who really stores thier data from home at different locations? (I admit, I do this). My goal with my data is to keep it accessible, but also safely archived for those times when the unexpected might happen, such as the PSU deciding to give excess voltage to everything, possible losing all my drives at once. It is rare, but why prepare for what might happen if you don't include the absolute worst that could happen? Data then could be backed up to many varying locations/media. Myself, if it is important, I like to put it on dvd as well as hdds. Anyway, when we talk about imaging I think some are really just backing up thier data. It is a bonus that the OS is included in the backup. But when you have lots of data and you make images, you must have the room to store it. Maybe I am way off, but I think it is pretty easy to accumulate 80+gb of "stuff" on your box these days, if not 10x that much. I shudder at the thought of creating an image of that magnitude. The reason is that if I were to do it that way, I would want to store that image someplace safe, which would not be on my main drive, and likely in more than one location. That is, IF this is how I store and save my important data, I am NOT going to just make an 80gb image and put it on my spare drive in my box. I am going to put it on another drive, be it external or network share. With large images I lose the ability to "conveniently" save them. Well, I could go get a cup or two of coffee while that 80gb transfers to a USB drive or a network drive, which isn't that bad, but I really don't want files that large. Those using snapshot/rollback applications, taking snapshots every week or two or whatever, I simply cannot imagine it myself. Instead I treat my data separate from my OS. I keep it in a dedicated location, and when enough new items accumulate, I either back it all up or I take what is new and back that up. Imaging works great for this, but the size can get large pretty quickly. Now what about the OS? How much different is that from data? To me, it is completely different. I make a backup or image of my OS so that I don't have to go through the rather time consuming process of reformatting/reinstalling. Now there are probably many people who can install the OS, and inside of an hour be essentially ready to go. For them, maybe it makes more sense to use imaging for data backup. But for me, and I imagine many others here, it takes a significant amount of time to get a new install "just right". Setting OS preferences, installing the software you like to use and configuring them, getting all your tweaks in place, it all takes time. Personally, I like things in just the right way, so I spend a lot of time configuring my install. For me then, the goal of imaging is to not have to go through the setup sequences any more. I want a baseline image with all of my core or basic things done. I don't install applications or games that are of any size, such as office or photoshop, only small utilities. This keeps my image size down, and normally what I do install are programs I will always want available. So my baseline image is not 100% complete, but has as much of my essential items as I can think of, both programs and tweaks/settings. After I create this baseline, I never delete it. On win7 the size of it is roughly 3.5-4gb, so small enough to put on a dvd for permanent storage, and small enough to transfer to a USB drive and quick to copy to other drives or across the network. After this baseline is made, I start to add to it. I install some applications that I use a lot, but that might change in the future. I put on all my little things that I currently use. Before I add these though, I make sure I place my baseline image back on, then add these things. Then before I do anything else, I make an image. This might be labeled "baseline_80%" or something. It gives me a clue as to just how close I am to being to my "normal" system setup. As time goes, I find new applications or maybe I stop using an application. I have a directory/file to make notes of what I like or dislike. I play around, and once I need/want to start over, I put the baseline_80% image back on. I then remove from it what I don't want and add to it what I do want. If I am really happy with the changes, I will make a new image and call it baseline_85%. Maybe I eventually have a half dozen images each around 4-6gb. At some point I will clean house and get rid of some of them. Usually I keep the first baseline_80% because it is the "cleanest" next to the original baseline image that I never delete. If I really want to start over, I put my baseline image back on, because I know that everything in it I am going to keep. I might do this if I want to stop using a bunch of applications, or if I feel that some of the things I have uninstalled are making things untidy or problematic. I don't do this very often, but if I wanted to, I could and save a few hours of configuring. Once in a great while I will do a fresh install and make a new baseline image, but I try not to if I can help it. For me, what I try to avoid is large images. The inclusion of large applications like office suites etc I generally leave off of my images. In fact, I like to install large applications or games to another drive. Sometimes this can cause problems. For example, if I install office to d:\program files, and then restore an image, I have the files in place on d: but there are some registry entries and files that need to be registered, so I would need to install it again most likely. For many applications, you don't need to worry about it, as they just run even if not installed. The easy solution to this is to make a baseline image which has the applications installed. For example, I would put my baseline_80% image on, then install office to d:\program files. Then I make an image again, and now office does not exist on the image OS drive, but that image has everything it needs to run office from the d: drive. If I am going to install photoshop/illustrator, I will first restore my image with office on it, then install the software to the d:\program files drive, then make another image. Using hot imaging makes it easy to do, it takes about 3-4 minutes. Now my office/adobe software is not hogging up room in my image, yet my system can be restored to a good image and it all still works as it should. Using this approach is not for everyone, I know. And I am not saying it should be. I am only pointing out how one might go about doing it. I am pointing out that data backup and OS imaging are not always the same, depending I guess on how you look at it. I am pointing out that you can devise a rather simple approach to how you use imaging that can make it convenient and fast to use. Now in your case KOR, you have multiple machines. I have done this before with XP, but not with win7. With XP, if the hardware was very similar, you could simply make an image, and apply it to the other machines. I would generalize the computer name and ip addresses, account info, stuff like that. I would essentially make a generic image with as many of my normal tools settings as I could, but not tweak it quite as much as normal unless the image was going to be used on only my personal machines. For example when I did this for my kids machines, I left a lot of things out. I did this at work with win2k as well as xp, and once I put the image in place, I had to change a few setting for that machine, but it was pretty quick. I could setup many of the applications/settings and within maybe 15 minutes it was ready to go. With win7, I believe what you might want to try is using sysprep. I haven't tried this yet, but there is an option to "generalize" the install so that it is ready to install on a new computer. I have seen this a lot when looking at information on VHDs. Once you get the install set how you like, and I assume with applications you want installed, you run sysprep on it, then create an image. Sysprep will make it so that when you put the image on a new machine, it will search for hal and devices, and put drivers in place, etc. It will also ask you to activate. This isn't always what you have to do, it depends on how saavy you are and just how different the hardware is. Many times in the past images would not go on new machines. When I would upgrad and want to put my image on, it would fail. However, almost every time I was able to go to the old machine, fiddle around with some different things, and somehow manually "generalize" it, and then make an image. This image would then work on the new hardware. It has worked almost every time, but that was in XP, which I new much more about than win7. So there you have it. A bunch of gibberish. If you actually read all the way through it to this point, either I must have something interesting to say or you are extremely bored lol. Maybe all of this is of value to someone, hopefully. Sul.
Dear Sul. As usual you have something interesting to say and I have read it about three or four times, trying to assimilate it all. The first imaging program that I bought was Macrium Reflect and as I bought it, I ran into troubles. I made the choice on Macruim Reflect because it was well recommended on this forum and that it installed itself into the boot menu. Both my wife's and son's laptops don't have a DVD drive, thus I thought it will make the restore easier. Though, I have an external portable USB DVD drive. The first problem I ran into with Macrium Reflect that it didn't install into the boot menu on one of my computers. It had a bug. So they fixed it soon. The second problem I ran into that the BCD store had a title bug. I reported to them on February 13, 2011 and still they haven't sorted it out. See here: http://www.macrium.com/support.asp Now, to the biggest bug that I ran into Macrium Reflect and which broke my trust into Macrium Reflect. Basically, when the program is intalled into the boot menu and I boot into Macrium Reflect on boot and/or I boot from the DVD drive on boot, the program crashes. As soon as I try to image and pick the destination directory, the programs crashes and restarts the computer. It also happens when I try to use the Explorer and/or try to restore the image, from the destination directory. Very fustrating. Maybe, I might open a ticket on thier site, but for a well written program, it seems furstrating. My laptop (this one) ASUS N61Jq, which I formatted yesterday has 28.06GB of OS and programs on it. Total size is 41.70GB less 7.91GB for pagefile.sys and less hiberfil.sys. First I did was hot imaging with both IFW and Macrium Reflect with the default settings: IFW total size 14.00GB Macrium Reflect total size 14.40GB Then I added few programs which I had left out and did cold imaging again with both IFW and Macrium Reflect, again with the default settings: IFW total size 15.30GB Macrium Reflect total size 25.20GB With a total size of uncompensated image of 28.06GB, there seems to be something wrong with Macrium Reflect image. Also, the Macrium Reflect kept on crashing while trying to choose the destination directory for imaging. If I choose the root directory of a drive, it wouldn't crash, but if I choose a root directory of drive D and then try to change it to another root directory of drive Z, it will crash. The hard disk is one with 500GB with three partitions as follows: Drive C: OS and Programs Drive D: Music, music and more music. Rock and Roll. Drive Z: DataDisk RamDisk: With Office 2010 and Firefox installed. I don't know what to think? The second program that I purchased was EASEUS Todo Workstation. It has both imaging and snapshot technology. On the third time I tried to restore my desktop (server) computer from the snapshot technology, it changed the clusters on the hard disk from the default 63 to 19. Worked two weeks with their support and had a thread on this forum. Eventually, gave up and reformatted my computer. Best regards, KOR!
I have now opened a ticked at the Macrium Reflect Forum, under "Reflect > Disk Imaging > WinPE crashes on boot! http://www.macrium.com/support.asp Please look at posts, posted by aladdin! Best regards, KOR!
Hmm. I went about it a different way. I made a win7rescuePE project that has the macrium plugin working in it. I then found a modified grub4dos grldr, and I modified that to look for my win7rescuePE.iso file - it actually searches for it so I can store it anywhere. Finally I used bootsect to make this grub (grldr) the default boot loader. What happens is that after BIOS post, the grldr starts the boot sequence. I see a small _ in the upper left of the screen. It flashes 5 times (5 secs). If I hit the ESC key during this time, there is a grub menu. From that menu my options are quite limited because I hex edited the file for my own use. One option is to start win7rescuePE from the .iso on one of my hdds. Another option was gparted .iso of some kind, I forget now as I haven't used it much. The final option I use is to boot to a menu.lst which is on my c: drive, in which I can make many more options as I please without messing with how the boot sequence is working. If I do not hit the ESC key, the the BCD begins its normal process. So I have an extra 5 second pause during booting, otherwise it is not noticable. But if I want to restore a macrium image, I simply hit the ESC key, choose to boot into win7rescuePE.iso, and then use the macruim plugin. The PE is loading into a RAM drive, so bootup takes roughly 20-30 seconds. Thus my restore times are really small becuase boot time is minimal and my image size is minimal. It has worked flawlessly dozens of times now. Prior to this I did the same thing basically in XP but I used a bartPE.img file instead of .iso file. HTH> Sul.
Has anyone considered whether or not the presence of an active rootkit (or any other stealth malware) might affect the outcome of a hot image? Since rootkits typically hide by redirecting the OS's ability to read certain data, a hot image might not be able to capture the true state of the system. My guess is it would depend on the specific methodology of the rootkit and whether or not it was capable of fooling the volume shadow copy service without breaking it. Just thinking out loud here...
For me it is a moot point. My baseline image is taken prior to the computer being online at all. When I create new images, I always load an image that has never been online. I can see though why you would bring this up. Sul.
I always cold image I have only a 40GB, yes I said 40GB master or C drive where Windows is and all programs, I keep all data on external drives, makes it real easy and fast to defrag check viruses, etc. make weekly backups of C drive I do not even trust the external drives completely, the things that are REALLY IMPORTANT I burn those files to DVD disk I had once happen to me where i was dong a restore or image do not remember now which, where I had two partitions one my drive one for images and one to store small amounts of data but important data and somehow it wiped out the partition that had the data but the image partition was retained so you just can not ever tell what might happen, I keep my images on a 80Gb drive now separate from everything else
This might be off topic, but interesting as I found out from Macrium Reflect that in Cold Imaging all the Windows Restore Points are included whereas in Hot Imaging none of the Windows Restore Points are included. Best regards, KOR!
Dear Sul, Again thank you about the information on grub4dos. I have opened a ticket for this on the Macrium Reflect forum. Their forum is very restrictive and only paid members are allowed to access the forum as members. Also, there are no links to the thread, but only to the forum. BTW, the hard disk in my laptop is Seagate hybrid with 4GB SLC Nand RAM. The reason I bought their program is because of WinPE rescue disk and the program loads itself into the boot menu, in the MBR. They are very restrictive about their WinPE rescue disk and each license is allowed one download. I have four licenses, I have used up two of them, downloading both the x64 and x86 rescue disks. For burning it doesn't matter if one loads from CD, if it is x64 or x86, but for injecting it into the boot menu it does matter based on x64 or x86 based on the operating system. Their rescue disk is v2.1 and is very old and based on Windows Vista. All other imaging programs give you rescue disk v3.1 based on Windows 7. I used to think that they have pay Microsoft for this. However, Brain corrected me that from Windows 7, it is free and Micorsoft doesn't charge for this. So, why don't Macrium Reflect provide their paid customers the Windows 7, WinPE v3.1 which is based on the most current Microsoft Windows 7 Operating system. I own other imaging progarms, EASEUS Todo Workstation, Paragon Drive Copy 11 Professional, Paragon Harddisk Manager 2011 Professional, Terabyte Image for Windows, Keriver 1-Clk restore. They all programs have WinPE 3.1 provided to their paid customers. Keriver 1-Clk Restore, I paid $10 for it, and legally I am allowed to use it on all my computers at home. Keriver 1-Clk Restore, also injects itself in the boot menu, in the MBR and it is based on grub4dos and Linex. But also the WinPE rescue disk v3.1 is provided too. Best regards, KOR!
I wanted a PE that I could use from dvd or from the boot menu (iso loading into ram). I wanted my own environment with my own set of tools for what I need to do. I don't mind spending the time rather than using a pre-made one. BrianK mentioned a way to create a boot USB device for IFW or one of those, and that does sound interesting, but when it comes to PE, my experience has always been to make sure it works on my system, roll my own. PE I think was one of the reasons why I did not purchase macrium. There was some other reason. If I recall correctly you had to buy new major versions, but revisions of that version were free. I remember reading about the next version having something I wanted, so I was waiting for it, but after some time did not see it released, so I lost interest. Too bad you have had issues with it. For me it has been nearly perfect, and how I designed my restoration process is very easy, for me at least. I replied to a thread here a couple years ago about how to get the macrium plugin to work in a win7rescuePE project, if you ever want to try it yourself I would recommend finding that thread. I am pretty sure it covered everything you would need to know. Sul.
