CDP - continuous data protection

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Mark Klomp, Dec 9, 2007.

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  1. Mark Klomp

    Mark Klomp Registered Member

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    Continuous data protection, the next generation of backup systems?
    At the moment I still use traditional backup software with snapshots, to be exactly EMC Retrospect Professional.
    Or you can use disk imaging like True Image. But CDP does backup everything in realtime, making scheduling backups a thing of the past. The problem is that I can't find a CDP backup program thats for home use for a single desktop. I can only find enterprise server CDP backup programs. Why is this technology not available to the home users?

    Only Horizon DataSys does sell ''RollBack Rx'' which seems to be a CDP for home users. And IBM sells ''Tivoli'' also availaible as a single license.

    please let me hear what you guys have to say.
     
  2. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    So when I download an infected software installation file, CDP will backup it immediately without giving me the time to verify this file with VirusTotal and Jotti. Is that a pro or a con ?
    A virus breaks through my firewall and installs itself and infects my data files, CDP backups it immediately, is that good or bad ?
    A virus deletes all my video files, CDP backups it immedately and deletes the files also.

    I delete the wrong file, CDP backups it immediately and deletes the file also, so I can't even recover the file.
    I really wonder how this CDP works in practice.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2007
  3. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Not entirely true. Eaz-Fix is a clone of RollbackRx and there are more clones of RBRx.
     
  4. Hairy Coo

    Hairy Coo Registered Member

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    Certainly wouldnt call Rollback a CDP.

    At the best it could be scheduled to take snaps at close intervals,but at the cost of slowdowns.

    Rollback snaps are primarily to protect the whole system,rather than just the data,which of course it also does.

    Tivoli seems to be a system of continuous file backup without scheduling-handy for a lot of business and professional use,such as physicians,but what is the point for the home computer,where the data changes occur much less frequently and the overheads wouldnt be attractive.

    Much better just to use a simple system such as Karens Replicator with scheduler,plus a primary backup imager such as Shadow Protect or ATI.

    I agree with Eric Albert- a CDP may be a disadvantage unless you can split it up ino certain segments.

    I presume the reason why CDP isnt available for home use is because there isnt a market for it.
    __________________
     
  5. Mark Klomp

    Mark Klomp Registered Member

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    As computer processors evolve, think about quad core, the resources used by CDP can easily be handled by one of those four processors. Can someone confirm if Rollback Rx is really a CDP? Maybe you can define it as near-CDP, so it's NOT true-CDP. CDP is a cross between disk-based backup and replication, is said on the internet.

    Regarding virus infection this is said:
    ''if the system becomes infected with a virus or Trojan, or if a file becomes mutilated or corrupted and the problem is not discovered until some time later, it is always possible to recover the most recent clean copy of the affected file.''
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2007
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Closest thing I can think of would be Shadowprotect's Continous Incremental setup, which can take incrementals automatically every 15 minutes, and then collapse them at the end of the day automatically. That also works for a lot of business's, and is very reasonable.
     
  7. nexstar

    nexstar Registered Member

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    It could be that the I/O is more of a limiting factor though.

    I use Rollback but if the definition of 'continuous' is to be literal then I wouldn't say it was a CDP. The closest I've used to approach that would have been GoBack which recorded every disk access in a buffer (8GB max I think) which constantly looped. The problem with that is that, if you copy two DVD's to your hard drive then that's the GoBack buffer gone. So it had to be used with some forethought.

    As Pete says, SP's continuous incrementals every 15 minutes are a pretty good trade-off between function, price and lack of impact on the system.

    Graham
     
  8. Mark Klomp

    Mark Klomp Registered Member

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    I forgot to mention one requirement, it has to be able to make unlimited Incremental backups just like EMC Retrospect can, so that you never have to make a full backup anymore, but only one initial backup at the beginning. This is possible by making a synthetic full backup once your limit is reached. E.g your limit is 5 (of the last) snapshots.

    e.g.: 1[Full backup] 2[incr.] 3[incr.] 4[incr.] 5[incr.]

    1=snapshot 1
    1,2=snapshot 2
    1,2,3=snapshot 3
    1,2,3,4=snapshot 4
    1,2,3,4,5=snapshot 5

    once another incremental backup get's made the 1[Full backup] merges/assembles with the 2[incr.]. This creates an updated synthetic full backup.

    If it does this everytime you make another snapshot, you never have to make another initial full backup.
    Fine granularities is also a big plus of CDP, this is because it's byte-level.

    here is some info on CDP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_Data_Protection
    Thanks for your comments
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2007
  9. Empath

    Empath Registered Member

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    For home users, I'd think an online continuous backup, like Carbonite, would come much closer to being a CDP. I've never used it; and only know what's it says at their site and word of mouth.
     
  10. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    In that case CDP must require alot of backup space to keep different versions of all data files.
     
  11. Mark Klomp

    Mark Klomp Registered Member

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  12. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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  13. Mark Klomp

    Mark Klomp Registered Member

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    Alright, I will soon try IBM Tivoli Continuous Data Protection for Files V3.1

    This is the only CDP for PC use at home.
     
  14. Defcon

    Defcon Registered Member

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    There are some other CDP programs for home use - NTI shadow, Memeo etc.

    Think of CDP as software RAID-1, but enabled for selected folders. As we all know, RAID is not backup. But CDP is good for those times when your pc crashes and you were working on a long email, video editing job etc. Granted, this is a much less common situation for home use and I'm not sure the dangers and overhead of CDP are worth it.
     
  15. grnxnm

    grnxnm Registered Member

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    I'm not particularly fond of this acronym (CDP). It's purely a marketing buzz term, and has therefore been applied so liberally that it's absolutely useless if you are trying to actually apply it in a concrete technical discussion. I'd prefer to just call things by their true name. The term CDP has been applied to solutions based on all of these significantly-different technologies:

    Synchronous file replication
    Synchronous volume replication
    Synchronous disk replication
    Asynchronous file replication
    Asynchronous volume replication
    Asynchronous disk replication

    The behavior of products like Octopus (asynchronous file replication) and CoStandby (synchronous volume replication) are so vastly different that they really should fall into completely different categories when solutions are considered. Yeah, I know, these are old product names and have likely changed three or four times in the last decade.

    Just make sure that you really understand the underlying technology, because it's vastly different from one "CDP" solution to the next.

    @Mark - Incidentally, it may interest you to know that the Retrospect product you're using is based on the snapshot technology developed by StorageCraft.
     
  16. Mark Klomp

    Mark Klomp Registered Member

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    Which is the most advanced/powerful (home) CDP you know of?
    Does byte-level CDP exist that's being able to restore to full files. So a combination of byte/block-level backup, for maximum efficiency, and still able to distinguish the stored data in files?
    It has to be able to make a full backup though.

    Yet the true CDP progs I know of:
    -IBM Tivoli
    -Norton GoBack
    -Memeo
    -NTI Shadow
    -Carbonite (online backup only)
    -Stardock KeepSafe
    -AJC Active Backup
    -InstaBack
    -Mozy Remote Backup (online backup only)
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2007
  17. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Some nice posts from Nate ( minus the advert heh heh: we know it's good ;) )

    Coincidentally I have been just looking here:
    http://www-306.ibm.com/software/tivoli/products/storage-mgr/cristie-bmr.html
    for a work solution.
    No idea of costs or 'scaling down' to my puny needs.
    Shadow Protect may still be the go for me at work

    What happens if some "sync" app is running and shadow protect runs an incremental ??
     
  18. Mark Klomp

    Mark Klomp Registered Member

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    CDP solution at work... I would choose EMC RecoverPoint.
    I use EMC Retrospect Professional which I find the most powerful and reliable traditional backup program. So I expect other products from EMC to be exceptional quality as well. It's a pity they don't make this RecoverPoint for standalone computers, otherwise it would be the first CDP I'd have tried.
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I've used Retrospect in the past, and it doesn't compare with Shadowprotect at least on two fronts. First speed. It was hangdog slow compared to Shadowprotect imaging. Second. The bare metal recovery technique was a disaster. About like scratching one's left ear with right hand. Now maybe it's changed in the last versions, but I had version 6, and it was terrible.

    Pete
     
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