"Bare" Imaging

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by n8chavez, May 22, 2009.

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  1. n8chavez

    n8chavez Registered Member

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    I know there are a lot of threads here that discuss imaging software. I hope in this one to discuss the meaning of the term "bare" that is used in describing the features of some imaging applications. For instance, Shadow Protect has the ability to restore to "bare" metal. Is that the case with others; such as Drive Snapshot and Image for Windows?

    Also, does Shadow Protect gain its bare metal restore ability from the software itself or from the restore disc? I ask because I have been having numerous hardware issue lately that have made me think it might be time to throw everything out and start over.
     
  2. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    I'm accustomed to hearing the phrase as "from bare metal" but that's of little consequence.

    To me an example of bare metal restore is when

    1) I completely imaged my laptop's hard drive, all partitions and boot records, i.e., every 0 & 1 that an OS and disk editor can see, with Image for Windows, to an external drive
    2) removed the hard drive from the laptop and replaced it with a new one 3 times as big - I guess with "low level" formatting from the manufacturer - whatever that does or doesn't mean nowadays
    3) Booted the laptop from a BartPE CD with Image for Windows on it, and restored the image from the external drive to the new drive.

    4) remove the CD and reboot the laptop and everything picks up where I left off.

    That's what "bare metal" capability means to me, FWIW.

    I've not had the pleasure of giving Shadow Protect a try yet, so I can't comment on your question about it.
     
  3. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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  4. n8chavez

    n8chavez Registered Member

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    There is even a discrepancy on that thread as to the term "bare metal." Does is it the same as Hardware Independent Restore? The term bare metal was taken from the Shadow Protect website. If they are not the same than what products, if any are able to preform an HIR?
     
  5. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    SP, one of the Acronis True Image apps, Ghost, TBOSDT (and others that I can't remember) can do hardware independent restores. TBOSDT is not proprietary in that it can work with Windows OS that have been restored by any brand of image/restore software. SP, TI and Ghost can only do HIR on images created by their respective software.
     
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    The Restore CD and the "software" can be one and the same. You don't actually have to install anything to use the software. It's on the CD itself. Usually when I do a full restore I just boot the CD. Using the continous incremental feature does require installing the software.

    Pete
     
  7. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Hey n8chavez:
    I am with you ( heh, certainly less proficient)
    There is a difference btwn replacing a HD and restoring to a completely different system: ie new MB and Video cards sound cards, different HW for HD interfaces etc etc: all new HW drivers..isn't that the sticking point ??
    Bare metal restore to me means : just a new HD in the same system; and I think any Image tool should do that If not: chuck it now.
    HIR means something slightly different to me: restoration of bootable OS to different system as above.

    I might have this definition wrong ??

    I am very interested in how peeps here see this and solutions.
    TBH, despite great experiences with Terabyte on simple same system and new HD restores, I have had my eyeballs start hurting while trying to make sense of the TBOSDT manual and the exact role of sysprep for doing my version of HIR on a new machine.

    This is presumptively not a network roll-out of a set image ??
    Obviously that is relatively easy for most imaging tools to multiple identical HW set-ups as 'bare metal' type restore.

    There are several tools around that promise full restores with different HW
    eg http://www.ultrabac.com/
    SP/Storagecraft promises this capability I think, but needs some extra $$ over the basic tool. ??

    I hope this thread continues, as I'm looking for some new HW too.

    Other issues that might be addressed if there is interest?:
    Problems with restored MS OS activations on all new HW?
    Exporting VMWare or VBox images to all new HW ??
    Solutions independent across MS OS : XP, Vista ( who cares ) and/or W7 ??
    FDISR imported archives bootable on new HW??

    Sorry, bit of a wish list there for me :eek:
    Looking for easy ways out LOL. ;)

    I Suspect that the reality is that new HW for individual users might need ( and prolly justifies) a new install and new images as you go.

    Nice OP, I have found the threads here discussing Imaging tools to be among the most informative for me: long may this thread live !!

    LOL, after all this verbiage there will be one or two links that will provide solutions :D
    Regards.
     
  8. n8chavez

    n8chavez Registered Member

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    I think Longboard hit on something that's important. What good is a HIR product is the user cannot use it? I'm pretty much a dumbass; I need a gui. So, Image for Windows using tbosdts is a definite no go.

    That being said, how important is it? If I restore an image with Drive Snapshot to different hardware then when the image was created can I just do a system repair install after the restore and have similar results as an HIR? I hope so because that would be cheaper. It seems the only "easy" way to do a true HIR is with ShadowProtect.
     
  9. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    You don't need IFW to run TBOSDT. Any imaging software will do.

    TBOSDT is now cookbook easy. You don't have to understand what you are doing. Just follow these simple instructions. And it's free.

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm

    See... "Installing Windows Drivers with TBOSDT for DOS/TBOS"
     
  10. presrc

    presrc Registered Member

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    Ghost - Are you sure?
    I believe that the only Symantec product that will do a hardware independent restore is 'Backup Exec System Restore' (BESR). The problem with that package is that you have to purchase five licenses and that pretty much makes it a business application. It's very unfortunate because it has some very nice features.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2009
  11. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    Bare metal restore simply means you can restore an image to a blank hard drive.
    the term bare metal restore has been used way before hardware indipendant restore. unless it says it can do hardware indipenent restore it porobaly cant. but you can always contact the company of the program to ask.
    normally done by restoring an image using a restore cd and the image stroed on the same disc or some other media such as external hard drive.
     
  12. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    Actually Symantec Ghost solution suite 2.5 can do hardware independent recovery see here http://www.symantec.com/business/products/newfeatures.jsp?pcid=pcat_infrastruct_op&pvid=865_1

    The price seems right for 5 licenses. see http://www.symantec.com/business/products/purchasing.jsp?pcid=pcat_infrastruct_op&pvid=865_1
     
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I've done HIR restores on Shadowprotect and it does work well. But keep in mind the objective.

    That is to simply get the machine booted to windows. It will not be running perfectly. Once up, you then still have to get and install the proper drivers for the hardware you are on.

    For example on my Nvidia graphics, when I do the HIR, i get the generic windows graphics which is fairly crude. Only after installing the appropriate Nvidia drivers is the graphics what it should be.

    Pete
     
  14. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Please correct me if I am wrong but would this not be simple to do with a program like Driver Checker? Or do programs like Driver Checker look at existing drivers and then look for updates for them? If this last is the case than this solution would clearly not work but if the program looks at the hardware then it should work nicely (I think).
     
  15. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    Is driverchecker ''smart'' enough to distinguish between the generics and the originals !?! I don't know.
    I suppose that it looks at the software (drivers) installed and then get a clue about the hardware,if it work only as a version checker then obviously its not gonna work in this situation i guess.
     
  16. presrc

    presrc Registered Member

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    The price for five licenses ($196.00) isn't bad if you have five systems to image. For one system, it's prohibitive, as far as I'm concerned. When you purchase, they insist on you purchasing a minimum of five licenses.
     
  17. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    presrc,

    You are correct. I was thinking of BESR. Strangely, you can buy single licenses in Australia.
     
  18. n8chavez

    n8chavez Registered Member

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    This statement makes me believe that this kind of restore can be done with any imaging software. Is that not the case?

    In any case, I've decided to follow your lead and purchases ShadowProtect.
     
  19. prius04

    prius04 Registered Member

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    I believe that is not the case. The problem is, without an HIR-type feature, the machine to which you restored simply wouldn't boot. IIRC, this has something to do with HAL, HDD controllers, and the like.

    An example of s/w that is not capable of accomplishing this kind of restore is the home version of ATI. Some Acronis business-class products can do it but they require an add-on module called "Universal Restore".
     
  20. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    prius04,

    That's the beauty of TBOSDT. It doesn't matter which software you used for the image/restore. TBOSDT will enable the non booting OS to boot. Then, as Pete mentioned, you can install your missing hardware drivers.

    Basically, TBOSDT installs IDE Controller drivers or new mass storage controller drivers to get past the BSOD and Stop error 0x0000007B (unrecognized boot device). TBOSDT can also change the HAL. For example, if you have restored an image from a single processor computer to a dual core processor computer. These have different HALs. The respective HALs are halacpi.dll and halmacpi.dll. Unless you change HALs you just see a black screen. Changing HALs takes 5 seconds and TeraByte has a CD for doing this. With a GUI. Mostly, HALs don't need to be changed.
     
  21. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    No. In Shadowprotect's case it has a lot of drivers that it can use. It also provides for manually pointing at a floppy for disk drivers like I would have to do, since I have an nvidia raid 0 setup. But other than those it gets the system up and running.
     
  22. n8chavez

    n8chavez Registered Member

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    I have to say, I'm liking ShadowProtect. It is a bit expensive but I guess the piece of mind that comes with knowing that I can restore my insanely customized OS, and all my data, should all my hardware fail is worth it. Think about it for a second. Hardware will fail, that's just a fact that everyone will eventually have to deal with. That makes the ability to restore to different hardware all the more important.

    I also like the speed of the recovery environment. It is much faster that the Ultimate Boot Disc for Windows. And, I found a way to cheat a little. By using UltraISO I can get my backup images on the same disc as the recovery environment, meaning that I only need one DVD-DL for all my data. :argh: :argh: :argh:
     
  23. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    n8chavez,

    Sounds good. A concern is your "insanely customized OS". Will SP restore your image to different hardware? HIR doesn't always work as outlined by some threads in the SP forum. Is it possible to test it with some different hardware? That's one of the first things I'd be doing. If it works, great, a relief. But what if it doesn't work? Better to know now.
     
  24. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I tested it pretty thoroughly and it worked fine. Just be aware you may have to do a driver update after the restore. The whole objective is to get the system booted and running windows, but it might not run as expected until you install the right drivers for stuff like video.

    Pete
     
  25. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Pete,

    I wasn't concerned about SP, just how the HIR component would work with Nate's OS. He used to have a pretty cut down WinXP. I'm not sure what he is running now.
     
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