Are you happy with professional AV Testing?

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by I_lack_commonsense, Jun 5, 2003.

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  1. I_lack_commonsense

    I_lack_commonsense Registered Member

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    Usually the better AV's remain on top, but there are still some noticable inconsistencies with recent test results. I imagine that some of it has to do with the test samples that they each choose. For example... I understand many did not like the testing method and samples used in the AV-test.org Test. But after reading the NOD32 thread Andreas explained why he included such samples (justified or not) and in some ways it made sense. But were those samples alone a threat... NO. And the result was many concerned NOD32 users, when they shouldn't have been. Just like I'm sure many people will be concerned when they see FAIL next to KAV and DrWeb in the latest VB test (without even knowing why they failed). Any thoughts or ideas on this area? What would you like to see done (if anything) ?

    I guess the only thing that you can count on is that all tests are flawed. And that AV test results ALONE do not accurately measure how good an AV is. :)
     
  2. Tinribs

    Tinribs Registered Member

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    To be bluntly honest, sometimes I wish i had never become interested in Security (and specifically Virii)

    In 'the old days' I ran Norton av, I sometimes got an alert which it dealt with, I surfed,emailed,listened to music (legally ;) ) and played games and was happy.
    Then it went pair shaped.
    I became interested in security (job related) and the fun dissapeared.
    It became an endless troll of sites looking and reading for any info that might point to the 'perfect' software to protect me, many months later I realised it doesn't exsist.
    I have since 'regained my mojo' and its fun again, but I still understand that reading test after test and scrolling through endless figures and pie charts can bring you down.

    Of course security is important ,not only for yourself, but for others too, but it isnt the 'be all and end all' dont forget that if its a reputable product and you are careful and up to date with recent threats then enjoy what computers can do and enjoy the 'net'
    Just dont let it take over your life



    :)
    Kev (the preacher :blink: )


    edit, sorry 'I_Lack' it doesnt really answer your queries, apologies for twisting your topic.
     
  3. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    Well, on ocassion, standards have been set: have a look at the criteria as formulated by VirusBulletin - those are very clear. At the same time, AV developers are free to submit their software to these tests/criteria - so they are perfectly aware what they are up to.

    In regard to ITW viruses I disagree; VB does a very good job here, undisputed by contenders. The ICSA AV Consortium has been established for good reasons as well - and all major players are involved.

    That said: as soon as test does enter a twiglight zone - not only testing for example ITW viruses, but trojans, backdoors etc as well, problems are bound to arise. For that reason I personally do prefer "clean" tests: VB is an example. Sortalike tests aiming at solely trojans/backdoors would stop concerns from AV and AT users as well.

    regards.

    paul
     
  4. Blackcat

    Blackcat Registered Member

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    I agree with Preacher Tinribs!!!

    Most of the 'top' AV programs are now detecting most of the ITW viruses, so most will provide good protection from viruses. Choose one of the programs which is consistently near the top of the detection charts from a VARIETY of DIFFERENT test sites and you should be okay.

    Unless you are in computer security and/or the AntiVirus field the reliability of the different test sites cannot be accurately judged. Even then, the so called experts nearly always disagree.

    Look at a variety of sources, including here at wilders, and friends recommendations then YOU decide what is best for your system and your needs.

    If you only play games on the computer and you occasionally e-mail but hold no important information on your box, a layered defence with the 'best' commercial AV/AT/AW programs and software/hardware firewalls may not be one of the holy grails in your life.

    As someone else who has progressed from Norton/McAfee to now recommended AV/AT/AW/Firewall and spyware programs, it can be a full-time job keeping up with the latest definitions, program updates and the latest forum news!!!!! As Tinribs stated 'enjoy the net'.

    If you keep up with some of the forums, you can quickly tell which programs are reliable. Trial, check system stability BUT enjoy your surfing.

    AND image-copy your hard drive regularly just in case ;).
     
  5. Douglas

    Douglas Guest

    But let's still appreciate those who belong to different denominations.
    There are people to whom figures and pie charts give great enjoyment. We don't have to enjoy them, but we can be glad that there are folks who do.

    Regards,
    Douglas
     
  6. Tinribs

    Tinribs Registered Member

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    Thats true Douglas, but for the average user just after the 'whats the best?' type thread is does nothing but confuse and delude them, I do not mean we should all forget intricate research that is done (I study every one) but merely that we shouldn't get overinvolved if we need not to.



    Kev
    :)
     
  7. Douglas

    Douglas Guest

    I don't. Can't understand 'em. :)

    Regards,
    Douglas
     
  8. mrbrimi

    mrbrimi Registered Member

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    I've given up trying to understand them as you have to read the "fine print". I'm sure if you are a "security expert" and take the time to read the methodogies there is some value.

    Worse than the tests are the postings that follow in forums such as this. I'm always amazed at the violent reactions that each new test result provides and how rude posters can be to each other over test results.
     
  9. I_lack_commonsense

    I_lack_commonsense Registered Member

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    heh Since you DISAGREE with me, I will....


    AGREE... with you in that VB's ITW approach is very effective. But in the thread about the June VB test results it was said that KAV failed due to a false positive. And if it did misidentify a false positive as a real virii, couldn't the false positive samples that VB use be more or less considered subjective as well?
     
  10. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    I don't think so ;) - apart from the fact the test bed used is one and the same for all tested programs.

    regards.

    paul
     
  11. Firefighter

    Firefighter Registered Member

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    To I_lack_commonsense from Firefighter!

    I'm afraid, that you have missed the point! Every tester can make mistakes in false positivive tests, of course that doesn't apply to VB, because the testbed was the same to all! :D :D :D

    But when I showed the results from av-test.org 2 - 2003 false positive test, almost every comment was that those 20 000 clean files included something suspicious or something like that. I tried to explain that it doesn't matter, because the rules were the same to all, but that seems to be only a joke! Of course I forgot that it was only av-test.org test, I'm terrible sorry about that! :D :D :D


    "The truth is out there, but it hurts!"

    Best Regards,
    Firefighter!
     
  12. zOK

    zOK Guest

    I am happy with most tests, I don't like nor trust Virus Bulletin results, or testing.
     
  13. Technodrome

    Technodrome Security Expert

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    Of Course you don't... But then again, VB test is the most professional test out there. Toughest one too….




    Technodrome
     
  14. zOK

    zOK Guest

    We each have our own opinion you say VB most professional, I say most unprofessional, You say hardest test, I say joke.
     
  15. solarpowered candle

    solarpowered candle Registered Member

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    perhaps it is like carrying all your eggs in one basket trusting in one testing co only
     
  16. zOK

    zOK Guest

    Yes, this is correct, look at all the tests, then you see which product is the best, You will see some programs shine at, cough VB, but do horrible on other tests, these programs, should then just be excluded, from ones search for a good AV.

    Chose a program that does well in all tests, not a one time wonder LOL.
     
  17. Technodrome

    Technodrome Security Expert

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    Its the fact. Ask any AV researcher.

    I welcome all tests too...



    Technodrome
     
  18. Technodrome

    Technodrome Security Expert

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    Chose a program that will suite your system best. Without slowdowns or freeze ups.

    AntiVirus app should not slow you down. Many antivirus products will protect you well.



    Technodrome
     
  19. zOK

    zOK Guest

    Hi, I could ask 100 people and get 100 different facts, the facts that count to me are my own tests, combined with tests made available to me. via Internet, I write VB off as hear say, and move on.

    One day, they may be able to conduct an honest test, but that day is not today. You have a right to trust them, as I have a right not to.
     
  20. zOK

    zOK Guest

    Agreed!!!!!!!!!

    zOK
     
  21. Technodrome

    Technodrome Security Expert

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    Don't ask ordinary people. Ask AV researchers.

    I do my own tests too...But I don't combined them with any other tests. :)



    Technodrome
     
  22. Technodrome

    Technodrome Security Expert

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    Fair enough! ;)



    Technodrome
     
  23. Excellent advice. Also, choose a program which has YOUR criteria for quality.. For a lot of people, this may mean unpacker strength..and trojan-zoo detection...

    Also, HOW it disenfects...Support... Information available on their websites... update frequency, etc. etc... and yeah, use at least one PROFESSIONAL opinion out there... For many, it's Virus Bulletin...
     
  24. edsod

    edsod Guest

    The best advice I've heard for antivirus programs.
    I speak from my point of view as a simple user...

    That is why people are reluctant to try again McAfee
    although it is said that the new version isn't problematic.

    This is the reason that many people are using AVG,
    it is not just ignorance or money for many of them.
    (maybe sometimes is :D ).
    Look at this little thread as an exemple
    http://forums.techguy.org/t138056/s.html

    On Access scanners and Monitors of many
    programs like Kaspersky or Bitdefender make them
    unusable
    (I tried many options except not scanning
    at all,only Swedish AVP 3.5 version is about OK).

    I experienced no slowdowns at all with
    AVG, NOD32, SOLO and AVAST.

    (NOD interferes with jv16 but this is a
    program that you use sparingly.
    I've read that this will be fixed?)

    I didn't try DrWeb...

    So when we talk about AVs we must look also
    at their usability and not only detection of viruses .
     
  25. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    hi "zOk" :D

    Sure, we all are entitled to our own opinion ;). Nevertheless, since all major AV developpers gladly put up their software for VB testing, I'm rather curious as of why you believe their tests are "most unprofessional" - contrary to all those major AV developpers putting their software up for testing ;)

    regards.

    paul
     
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