Are we not head over heels with security?

Discussion in 'other security issues & news' started by Mrkvonic, Nov 7, 2005.

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  1. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Hello,
    FIRST: I do not underestimate and undermine anyone's efforts on security. I also very much like it, and it's one of my e-hobbies.
    Now...
    Aren't we exaggerating?
    Using all the stuff we use is like a girl wearing iron maiden with triple lock, plus soldering along the edges, plus wire mesh, plus barbed wire, plus plaited steel skirt, plus motion detectors, plus male repellants...
    Isn't it too much?
    Traffic monitors, filters, registry protections, rootkit tools, aren't we parannoying ourselves? For instance, router, plus software firewall, plus packet filter, plus traffic monitor, plus p2p filter, isn't that a super-overkill? Or processguard and regrun and winpantrol and online armor all together? Isn't that an overkill?
    What about playing it simple?
    Firewall + anti-virus + common sense?
    I also read that many people often catch nasties here and there, get alerts from this software or that program, find, trace, kill, eliminate ... wage a constant war on spyware all the time ... How's that? Where do all this come from? Where do these people surf? Actively browsing each and every cws site with ie?
    Tell me your views!
    When did you ever have a ping from another ip?
    When did you ever open an attachment and it had a virus, and I'm not talking about those hello spam mails?
    When did you ever suddenly have something asking to install in the middle of the browsing?
    When did you ever download a file that turned out to be a trojan?
    Cheers all, peace and prosperity!
    Mrk

    P.S. Once again, this is not meant to be a slapdown, only a bit of taunting... :)
     
  2. Rmus

    Rmus Exploit Analyst

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    Quote from an article in my local newspaper yesterday:

    --------------------------------
    Fear Factor

    Without a doubt, life insurance should be an important part of many people's financial plan.
    Having said that, don't be scared into buying insurance you don't need.
    -----------------------------------

    Security is based on one's perception of threats. People set up computer security based on that.
    It's all a matter of perception.

    regards,

    -rich
    ________________
    ~~Be ALERT!!! ~~
     
  3. controler

    controler Guest

    You still see state systems being hit by every virus today. Not so much as two years ago though. I am sure IT people that work for these state agencys now do a better job only after all the hard work done here on these security sites by free time giving people. I guess that is one reason I push for better suites, an all in one good product for home users without a ton a pop ups they do not understand. Sometimes the advice here is more deticated to more advanced users and we forget about the common home user but after hard work in getting the word out there, more home users are better educated now days.
    Yes you may get by with "firewall, AV good surfing habits, and keeping your OS all up to date with fixes but it was not that many years ago, they would come here and say a software firewall is more talk of spreading fear among the less educated. let's see, i think it was @guard firewall at the time.

    X country says. I think we should go back to slingshots to protect ourselves.
    This world is much to advanced to start an all out war. They only did that in the dark ages. We sure don't need to develope stealth weapons anymore now do we? there is no evil left in the world. there are none left that wish to do harm to anyone these days, right?
    Living in fear in alot different then living with courage.
    I have never really been on the oh dear how many resourses does that program use band wagon. I always just chuckle when I see posts like, Wow it is the most awesome program in the world but since it uses a meg more resources, I sure will never use it. Got the poor programmers more in tune with resources then the best solution.

    A well. somethings never change :doubt:


    controler
     
  4. hollywoodpc

    hollywoodpc Registered Member

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    MrKvonic and controller .

    Very good . I like your posts . I am in total agreement . If a program is great , it should be used . Resource usage means little unless you computer is very old . As for being crazy over security . I have noticed it in here BIG TIME . It almost seems as people in here think that more is better . Security is a hobby now . Used to be a job . My goodness . People are very paranoid these days . I use programs because I can and I like to see what I can catch . It is cool . Again . Just a hobby now ;. Most in here think they HAVE to use many programs to be safe . I have one firewall that catches all malware , pestware , intrusions , viruses and anything else you can put into a group . But , I use other things along with it . Interesting thing is , it does NOT stealth my ports . lol . Yet , I am safe . Go figure . lol .
     
  5. AvianFlux

    AvianFlux Registered Member

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    My preference - Firewall + Passive System Hardening + Common Sense.
     
  6. hollywoodpc

    hollywoodpc Registered Member

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    AvianFlux
    There ya go . Works for me !;)
     
  7. Beef

    Beef Guest

    How nice to see a few people waking up.....an talking up.......so if you don't mind may I express a small opinion.

    In recent weeks I have had so many laughs while watching the blind leading the blind..........its so outragous thats a person can only laugh because to take it seriously makes a person realize how many in-secure computers begin at security forums.....an then remain in-secure.
    Its become a matter of numbers.....the countless so called security experts who could not locate a toilet if one is needed suddenly leading noooob's to the wonderful land of computer security.....try correcting their mis-information an the wild mass of followers flame you silly.....something I also laugh at.

    A person installs...lets say its "Enough is Enough" an there she blows...the person is not an expert in browser settings.....woopie
    this is replayed everyday in every security forum on the internet. The true security experts have long went their seperate way in search of peace ...so it continues "the blind leading the blind"
    Of course people don't need all those security products...its assanine to even think we do. Its smoke and mirrors and a hustle to boot......an "pawns" are always being planted in forums to panic the people into buying their product....an it works gloriously....
    Spyblaster is the only spyware program installed on my computer....an mainly that was done to help promote it.......BUT NEVER>>NOT ONCE IN THE PAST FIFTEEN YEARS HAS SPYWARE ENTERED MY SYSTEM UNLESS I ALLOWED IT TO FOR TESTING PURPOSES>
    now I am no smart @ss with all the answers an never would claim to be.......but someone may consider asking themselfs why my computer never gets infected with spyware......an you can bet there is not another person at this forum that surfs to the hard hitting places I do.
    People can't even agree on a firewall to use.....but guess what kiddies........ if you were learning about security instead of running around looking for some stupid spyware program that you really don't need....then you would know the facts on firewalls.........
    People have convinced themselfs that their computers are safe....gee whiz....do you honestly believe that........ just wait until the time when you sit there watching all those fancy security programs being turned off by a hacker an there is noting you can do.......other than pull the plug,
    People use to take pride in learning and achiving....now its "GIMMIE A FREEWARE SECURITY PROGRAM>>>>THANK YOU>>I AM NOW AN EXPERT"
    Where is that excitement to learn......instead of using all those crapware programs.........add to your self respect...instead of yet another program to your computer.....

    Why don't YOU become the next security expert and help those lost souls being mis-led I sure as hell would not have made this post if I didn't already know there was people at this forum who can succeed and exceed........There are still a handful of real experts here....stop bickering with them an learn from them instead.......if CrazyM says something about a firewall don't be an idiot by arguing with him.....he's an expert......when you were still learning how to connect your computer......

    BigC and Bubba have lots to share......Technodrome is great......the experts will step up.....when the wannabe's step down......


    Thats All
     
  8. Beef

    Beef Guest

    How many people reading this know how to prevent their homepage from being hijacked without the use of a program to do it for you?

    There is a simple code that you could enter that prevents hijacking....the old schoolers have used it for many years.....(an no, I wont post it....those interested can make the effort to locate it themselfs or someone else can post it...not me)
     
  9. doug6949

    doug6949 Registered Member

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    "Tell me your views"!

    - OK

    "When did you ever have a ping from another ip"?

    - not since I installed the router per advice from this group.

    "When did you ever open an attachment and it had a virus, and I'm not talking about those hello spam mails"?

    - not since I convinced my business contacts to use security methods like mine.

    "When did you ever suddenly have something asking to install in the middle of the browsing"?

    - not since I became a security fanatic.

    "When did you ever download a file that turned out to be a trojan"?

    - about a year ago.


    "Cheers all, peace and prosperity"!

    - not since 2001.
     
  10. Beef

    Beef Guest

    doug6949

    one look at your last post an I can see a up and coming security expert.....
    best of luck on your adventure
     
  11. Tom772

    Tom772 Guest

    To keep my PC secure i dont turn it on and keep in a box;)
     
  12. Beef

    Beef Guest

    Tom772

    attaboy Tom........LOL
     
  13. Vikorr

    Vikorr Registered Member

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    I always thought people used lots of security products simply because they aren't experts, don't know all the ways that spyware can infect a computer, and aren't certain that their security is enough, or what security is enough.

    Calling people noobs etc who know they don't know enough (but are taking the effort to try and secure their computer, however it is achieved) is simply as silly as it is condescending and hypocritical.

    When combined with an absence of any constructive offering...
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2005
  14. Rico

    Rico Registered Member

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    Hi Vikorr

    Bravo! Well said!



    take care
    rico
     
  15. cantroler

    cantroler Guest

    I just reformat alot *wink*
     
  16. Arup

    Arup Guest

    I run minimal, speed, response and enough CPU power for my other apps as compiler as well as video renderers are far more important for me. That doesn't mean I run naked, but just whats needed for me to not get infected, I also try and practice safer browsing.
     
  17. porkie

    porkie Guest

    I do not know any code to prevent homepage hijacking at all. I have been using Firefox and Opera for two or three years, and have never had my homepage hijacked. Shall I find out such code in order to become a security expert?
     
  18. hollywoodpc

    hollywoodpc Registered Member

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    Oh Vikorr .
    You are way too critical . Someone who does not know alot about security and seeks advice is a noob ! That is a fact . My goodness . It is not a bad thing . I was at one time . As were most that give advice . I think you are right as far as giving constructive advice . I have even recently asked a question in here about AntiHook .. Why ? I wanted info on a program I have never used nor tested . I am a noob to that program . I am not a noob when it comes to overall security . Many people are . What you are saying is that a 12 year old should not be called a child . As that is being cynical . A noob is a noob . People in here are generally trying to be helpful and I have yet to see anyone use that term in a condecending manner . In my opinion , there are more important issues in this forum then calling anyone down for using the term noob for someone who is inexperienced in computer security .
     
  19. hollywoodpc

    hollywoodpc Registered Member

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    Hi porkie .
    Do not know if you are joking or not so forgive me if I am too serious . Using Opera and FF , your problem is pretty much non existent . If you use IE , there is a way to keep your homepage from being hijacked. As for being an expert . You can certainly be an expert without knowing about that . lol . There are some experts that do not know about it . So , there ya go .
    FF and Opera are fairly safe , at least for now .
     
  20. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Hi,
    Apropos learning:
    There is nothing wrong in not knowing; anyone can learn, provided they wish to learn. And that's the important thing - when a person is determined to educate themselves so they do not repeat their mistakes.
    This site is a great jumpboard for anyone who wants to get into the security business or just get well oiled with usage of their home computers.
    Beef, my idea was not to derise the people who have security knowledge, whether they are true or less true experts. It does not matter. As long as they are willing to help, that's what counts.
    I aimed at assuaging fears that seems to soar high these days.
    I think that most people overestimate the passive defense over their own part in the infection. 99.6% of infections come through deliberate misuse of the computers. It is very rare that a security conscious person would bring upon themselves some ugly infection. And even then, it's an easy solution. Format the hell out of the machine. Or burn it and buy a new one...
    Life insurance was mentioned - unlike people, computers can die and ressurect all they want, you can easily replace parts of whole machines, cheaply relatively, unlike human bodies.
    Now, seriously.
    People with tons of security, could you please give me examples when your programs have stopped some nasty beast on the way in.
    Klaxons blazing - intruder, intruder! Firewall icon goes red. ProcessGuard starts throwing up alerts. The anti-virus informs of an infected memory process. Ewido sounds its alert. SpywareGuard and MSAS simultaneously alert about hijacked homepage. WinPatrol kicks in a minute later ...
    Anyone ever had this one? How did this happen, then? What were you doing when it occurred?
    Mrk
     
  21. Rmus

    Rmus Exploit Analyst

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    The only program I run is to prevent the unexpected running of an executable. Drive-by sites are a good example, and I've documented several.

    On one occasion I was viewing several sites in a Google search, and this page evidently was code that attempted to cache when viewed:

    http://www.rsjones.net/img/driveby1.gif


    When I attempted to view the page source code, the viewer tried to open the cached file and was blocked:

    http://www.rsjones.net/img/driveby2.gif


    To make sure the file was prevented from downloading, I searched the cache:

    http://www.rsjones.net/img/driveby3.gif

    Normally, I'm pretty careful, but moving quickly through a Google list caught me off guard.

    regards,

    -rich
     
  22. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Hi,
    Can you tell what sites were those?
    Mrk
     
  23. Beef

    Beef Guest

    Vikorr

    For your information I have more respect for a nooob "really" making an attempt to learn then for someone who has been coming to this forum along time an doing nothing more than being negitive...........an you Vikorr have been hanging around here long enough to have become someone productively teaching the nooob instead of wasting your time with posts such as the one you made.

    ~snip~ removed personal snipe ~ Blackspear


    My outlook is extremely simple...."I still have faith in the humen race" There are people out there who have the pride and self respect to make the effort to learn....instead of making feeble excuses for being a failure they rise above circumstances an take control......an they become the "Leaders"
    There are those wannabes who want nothing more than to keep the nooob slaves.......those are the ones who will post negetive comments.........otherwise why would anyone be upset over someone trying to encourage others to learn and better themselfs
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2005
  24. Blackspear

    Blackspear Global Moderator

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    Ladies and Gentlemen, let's keep the personal snipes out of this, and remain on topic.

    Cheers

    Blackspear.
     
  25. Beef

    Beef Guest

    I'll be leaving for the hospital briefly an want to make a comment now,


    Let it be understood that I encourage users to use whatever software they deem needed to protect there computer.....just don't foolishly install useless duplicate programs.........an whenever you personally can add protection by entering code......do so.......you would be amased at how well your computer runs without all those duplicates
    Try to teach yourself how not to depend on any particular software.......sure you need the obvious.....firewall etc....

    let your experience with computers be a growing one. An for those who just don't want to be bothered with learning anything...thats fine as well......enjoy your computer.....just don't fall victim to that mass panic and wannabees
     
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