Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)

LOL! I was waiting for that, hehe!

 

Not the same servers (unless they are virtualized?) but some of the servers are managed by the same tech group. But that may end up using the same IP addresses for exit nodes, I think, which should result in lots of fun.

 

Steve, As far as your connections with MetroPipe: These are fair questions because there are simply too many coincidences. The connections between XB and MetroPipe are many. My post back in June of 2007 shows all the "coincidences" even before I made the discovery that you are using the same servers. Here's the screenshot evidence, coincidence?

Metropipe IP:
http://aycu30.webshots.com/image/43909/2005608874186097958_rs.jpg

XeroBank IP:
http://aycu31.webshots.com/image/44750/2005682913940611356_rs.jpg

"Some of the servers managed by the same tech group" you say. Hmmm. Do you know how many (hundreds of thousands) servers there are in the world? And you BOTH use the SAME "tech group" -- in Germany?

To most people, with the evidence above and all the connections listed in my original post, the questionable MetroPipe=XeroBank and XeroBank=MetroPipe. If we're wrong it's the most bizarre set of coincidences ever.

It's all there, Steve - with too many "coincidences". Joke about it, make light, do your best - but it's all too much.

For those who want to see the full list of connections between Metropipe and XeroBank please see the post linked above in the first paragraph.

And all you really can say (over and over and over) is "trust me."

 

Genady: A compilation of erroneous arguments is not itself a stronger argument. Perhaps it would be equally impressive if I listed every prior response here. Would that make the refutation any better?

I indulge you too much. The exit nodes are managed by the same tech company because then the leases aren't in our name, and they get to be the initial handler for the subpoenas and court order requests, further insulating our users. If you are familiar with networking, imagine these nodes as concentrators. It enhances the anonymity to have as much traffic going through the exit nodes as possible. Finding an entity with expertise in commercial anonymity techniques, law, and technology is more rare than a red diamond. Not much of a coincidence at all, because the other guys in town couldn't even find that. That's why they suck at what they do.

Lets flip the tables:
Hey, I bet we fill up our cars from the same brand of gas station. Coincidence? The oil in our cars came from UAE. Coincidence? Our cars were manufactured by the same company. Coincidence? In our cars, we drink the very same cola. In all the whole wide world, how could this be possible? Scarcity? No. Brand recognition? Never. Market makers? Not a chance. It's all just too much. It is a conspiracy. I admit it. You and I must be the same person.

 

Steve, "Erroneous arguments?" That's ridiculous. Insulting, really. Trying to compare buying gas at the same place....what does that have to do with the multiple "coincidences" that show a connection between XB and MetroPipe? It's not just one or two - or even three or four. There's a long list! The original post in June of '07 (which I linked to above) was even before you happened to use the same "tech group" - in Germany! Trying to turn the tables and act like this is no big deal is simply not being honest. Your attempting to explain away things that seem too fantastic to believe hardly makes my list of connections "erroneous."

Now, it's even the same complaints! I read the Internet groups and boards and read of slow ticket responses, emails not being sent out, etc. MetroPipe has been notorious for this. Now, I read the same problems with XeroBank!! (But, there's always a handy response {excuse} that makes it appear you're so 'open').

Steve, Is there any financial relationship at all between MetroPipe and XeroBank? How many of the same people are involved in both? Are any past/present MetroPipe owners, involved in XeroBank?

This whole "trust" thing is important. With you, it always boils down to fancy word games and parsing of words that make something technically true - but not completely honest and forthcoming.

I think this is important as I agree trust is all important. Right now, with the OBVIOUS connections between MetroPipe and XeroBank - and your only talking around the edges - it is disconcerting. My research isn't complete and, frankly, I haven't laid all the cards on the table because I want to see just how honest (or slippery) you can be in this whole question of "coincidences" with MetroPipe and XB. You are the one offering the service based on trust. We, as consumers, have the right to do whatever is necessary to determine if that trust is warranted. So far, the 'talk' is good, while the fine points and the lack of candor on MetroPipe/XeroBank seem to show something entirely different.

 

Genady. What I openly told you originally explains everything you see. Consistency is not an attribute of a liar. What I tell you never changes. There is no benefit for you to be misled. Go ahead and lay any cards on the table that you like. It will be unfortunate for you (more so for me) because everything you claim will all be explained by what I told you prior, just like everything else you've brought up. What a coincidence, right?

I think most of it stems from you not understanding how MP works/is designed. However, you were exposed to them first so it is no surprise.

As far as I know, the only involvement is one admin of MP, who brought us some code like the IPSpy, some very nice implementations of SSH, and turned us on to the previous server mgmt company MeshMX (which was recently purchased I *think*). However, the new network won't be using MeshMX at all, as we've acquired our own expertise on these matters.

There is another side to your theory that you aren't considering, which would make a rational person abandon such a tirade: We don't offer the same software. We don't offer the same products. Where is their xB Browser? Where is their xB Mail? Where is their tor operation at all? Even the character of the corporations are just too different. It makes no sense that if they had such a warchest of secret weapons at their disposal that they wouldn't deploy them. But there is one reason that makes sense: its exactly as I originally told you and you've gone off the deep end. Tell you what though...

You know who you remind me of? That crazy conspiracy guy from privacy.li, who goes around under pseudonyms trying to inject fear, uncertainty, and disinformation. Maybe it's a coincidence.

 

Just saying you've answered questions and they should be accepted doesn't explain all the connections. Maybe that one "admin" from Metropipe is the OWNER? Who knows? You don't say. You DO say "As far as I know..." that's the only connection. Like you are completely some outsider with only a passing interest in XeroBank or something. We know you STARTED the company as TORPARK. In fact, reading through another thread, I discovered that you say you are NOT the owner of XeroBank. You certainly were the owner when you called yourself TORPARK. After the TORPARK/TORRIFY fiasco and you began offering "Premium Services", the Metropipe connections began to snowball. All those "coincidences" which I listed in this post of June of '07 are supposed to be just blown off as "coincidence" (your word - not mine). And since then, it's been shown that you share servers at the same company in Germany. I mean, really. You also have the same credit card merchant/payment processor in DalPay. There are THOUSANDS of credit card merchants, but you share the same. The list is long - and they are all in the link above.

Oh, I found this on the Web just the other day - what's up with this? It says Chatzilla was configured in a rather...uh...odd way:
"IRC autoconnects to ircs://irc.metropipe.net with user 'xerobank user'"That may be easily explainable, I don't know, but it's another little something that doesn't smell right.

You asked where their version of email is. Ummm....ever hear of MailVault.com? Here is a screenshot of WHOIS - look who owns them: Metropipe.net
http://aycu13.webshots.com/image/46012/2004797452760146133_rs.jpg

And no, Metropipe has never offered a TOR service. But that Xb machine? You think you were the first? Ever hear of the Metropipe "Virtual Privacy Machine"? They were the only privacy service to offer such a thing....until.....the connections with XeroBank became clear and lo and behold - XeroBank has the "xB Machine!"

As for Privacy.li, all I know is that they are anti-semitic, foul-mouthed losers who have been known to rip people off using a variety of names. If they have arrived at some of the same conclusions that some of us have, that says nothing about me. I don't have anything that connects me with them at all. Period. David Duke may agree with George Bush on some things - that doesn't mean there is a connection. But with Metropipe and XeroBank, we are talking hard evidence of something a bit more than a "coincidence." Nobody can just make this stuff up! It's all there for anyone to check and see.

You called my posts a "tirade" and wrote I have "gone off the deep end." Well, for anybody reading this thread and caring to check my information, links and sourcing - I think they'll probably conclude you are on the defensive to try and cover-up things you don't want known - and people that do this kind of thing, always resort to what? Yep, shooting the messenger. The facts are all there, it's up to customers to decide if you are being open and honest with that looonnggg list of "coincidences."

Oh, and why does it matter? There have been rumors for years (on alt.privacy and anon-server usenet groups) that Metropipe was a U.S. government honeypot. Poor customer service, lost tickets, people having to chase around to get their product working. And as for the latter, reading this thread - that sounds a lot like XeroBank.

 

Genady,it's as though you selectively read one piece of information, but in the same sentence reject the other. I've already explained this FUD you've just distributed. And xB Machine is nothing like VPM except for the fact they use virtualization. However virtualization has led to similar outcomes, and now you see a deluge of VM solutions. Maybe they are all MP too. As for MailVault? I know the team of programmers that wrote that, and they aren't MP. But the mere fact that we all know each other must mean we are colluding and the same person/people, yes? Every single thing you've just mentioned I've already addressed, and I'm not going to be wasting any more time on you.

ps, that rumor you mentioned about mp was started at, never produced a single shred of anything especially when asked, and only continues at, privacy dot lie. Another coincidence?

 

In the new version of xB Browser, we've moved the throbber into the splash screen. I was designing the PGP implementation into the next version, but it may be cleaner if we do all updates via SSL with certificate checking. Still mulling that around. Found out there *is* an error in the FTC plugin, at least the initial installation of it, so those of you who were complaining about it disappearing in the tor version, now I think we know why it may erratically happen.

update: new key registrations are being delayed as thousands of demos are being downloaded every day. We're not currently focusing on it, because the new system solves the old problem, and should be ready anytime now. However it causes some delay to legitimate users of Plus, requiring us to fix the issue. Its amazing what political change has effected our downloads and trials. Very surprising to me.

New xB website is completed except for content. For those interested in the xerobank 2.0 network, I recently gave an indepth interview to DGC magazine, which can be viewed online for free, here.

You can also see pictures of the xb plastic cards in there as well.

 

So, Mailvault is not MetroPipe because you know the programmers. Yet, WHOIS, clearly shows that MailVault is MetroPipe. And you cry FUD?

Your acting like the privacy-providing community is some small tight-knit group is simply not true, Steve, You know that and I know that. Trying to use that to explain away your MetroPipe connections won't wash.

The privacy.li stuff is ridiculous. They are scammers. That we can agree on. The Metropipe "rumors" have been expressed by many people long before privacy.li even existed. You are simply smearing the messenger again, Steve. The Metropipe/XeroBank connection has been exposed (your explanantions and 'coincidences' just don't wash).....and all you can do is lash out personally. Shame.

 

I checked with support and all tickets are closed out as resolved or waiting for a client response. For those customers that were having trouble with their SSH/Plus accounts, I authorized the staff to give them free upgrades to VPN/Pro. That's like a $130 off a $35 item, har. No substitute for excellent customer service, as I'm always a big fan of under-promise/over-deliver.

 

It has been quite while since I used it. I can't remember how or where I tried to download. I will have to download it again and see. I am glad to hear that there is more space for downloads. Now I am wondering if I can download something from within the machine and export it to my desktop. Is that possible?

By the way, I loved it....one f the coolest things I have ever seen. I am going to download it again and try it on a USB stick this time. Thanks, Chuck

 

You're welcome. There is some way, I think, but it requires some sort of strange partitioning. As I understand it, the best way to move files (and this is a joke), is to email them to yourself. I know there is a better way, but since we've migrated the whole xb installation to QEMU, that method is different.

 

Steve,

Why don't you update the Software Download page for the client in the profile

xB VPN (2.1.0.0)
xB Browser (2.0.0.6
Config Files (Mac / Unix)

thanks for your work

I don't have your email
and I can't send private message here

however, I still download the old version on the Software Download

best regards

 

Xerobank Pro it's a really great solution

very fast, easy to use, and never had connections problems.

but if could make some suggestions... :

It's a nightmare to get a contact email, and then, you get an answer
2 or 3 days after, and sometimes never...
My email object was to pay my account... lol

It would be great to have info about when the service you bought will end.


It would be great to received some newsletter. Because I new you had the XB browser v11 out through this forum... perhaps you don't want pay clients to get it?
same for the xerobank 2.0

also, sometimes when I get connected through a hotspot and I verify my ip on www.showmyip.com I have the message : It appears that you are in Germany and perhaps in... the country where I am!!

Anyway I love xerobank, is really helpfull for my work
even sometimes in small countries I travelled, my surfing was much faster with xerobank than without.

please continue your work, you are saving people

 

Everything is about to be updated. Everything. You'll see why, shortly.

 

Just compiled a new version of Browser for 2.0.0.12 that has the auto-updater in it. Still need to implement GPG signature verification. Smart function in browser now first looks for VPN, then SSH, and then connect via Tor as a last resort so it is fail-secure. Browser will now launch VPN if it sees it and it isn't running. Shortly we'll add internal anonymity checking every x seconds to make sure your browsing is still anonymous. Getting ready to push it live after we tweak the updater. Still thinking of waiting for updater to get GPG, a little worried that creates a vulnerability for any latent 2.0.0.12b lying around...

Compiled new version of VPN that has auto-connect to Reliable network, uses new OpenVPN GUI modified for xb status. Very nice.

 

great great

but you didn't really answered to my questions

I still only can download the old XBVPN version on my client login download page
V2.1.0.0

and since this morning I can't use the XBVPN
in both mode fast and reliable
this what I get in the console :
Tue Mar 04 18:56:57 2008 Connection reset, restarting [0]
Tue Mar 04 18:56:57 2008 TCP/UDP: Closing socket
Tue Mar 04 18:56:57 2008 SIGUSR1[soft,connection-reset] received, process restarting
Tue Mar 04 18:56:57 2008 Restart pause, 5 second(s)

it's mean that when XB is not working we are taking security risk being on internet...

XB BROWSER without XBVPN is way too slow and the IM/VoIP are not anonymous

please help

 

I'm having no trouble with VPN whatsoever. It looks like you're getting RESET signals, so perhaps it is your ISP interfering, perhaps it is your network having a bad connection. Could be a number of things, but send it to the support desk, otherwise this thread will be inundated with people requesting support. As to the rest, send in debug logs to the support desk and they'll take care of it, and if it ends up a bug it gets forwarded to the dev team.

xB Browser 2.0.0.12b is about to be released.

It has a new auto-updater that uses GPG signature verification, and the throbber is now loaded through the splash screen. Lots of tightened code and bug fixes, new tor modules etc.

2.0.0.12b Installer and Signature

xB VPN 2.1 RC7 is about to be released. Now it should be Vista x64 compatible.

Stand-alone

 

xB Browser has just integrated a new technique for blocking ALL plugins when in Tor mode, as a failsafe. That means mime-type attacks fail, and no surreptitious plugins can load and thus leak IP information.

I was mulling over this decision on how we would deploy it, as we had this new technique in our arsenal thanks to a fellow XeroBank development team member Kyle Williams. So it makes sense that for VPN it isn't a question of leakage, but for Tor it would be. The additional thoughts are that if you were using Tor already, obviously you were foregoing some luxuries already, you might as well enjoy getting your plugins leak protected and forcing the browser to be the only one to load those plugins.

 

Steve,
not sure if this has been brought up, but what do you think about using Opera instead of Firefox? I was testing this week and the results of this browser were quite good, it seems more faster than Firefox while you are surfing naked in the eyes of your ISP.

Of course is not a replacement for Firefox, and it's not that pretty, but some options are already available on Opera, and it seems a good choice.

 

If you just want to browse with TOR there is always OperaTor, which does an excellent job.
http://archetwist.com/en/opera/operator

 

I remember I was asked to write a version of Torpark for Opera about 8 months before OperaTor appeared. I had to decline for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that I would be reinventing the wheel that was Torpark. At DefCon I gave a presentation with a review of it:

 

Transparency is definitely a problem. By the way, who owns XeroBank? Names?

 

Genady, I've read your posts regarding your allegations of a supposed connection between Xerobank and Metropipe. You seem to have some real concerns there.

I have two clients who were Metropipe subscribers a few years back. One of them is a Xerobank subscriber now.

I understand your concerns. Indeed, there appear to be some similarities between MP and XB.

Without solid evidence, it appears that portions of the network, and perhaps some staff, coders and developers may have migrated to Xerobank.

I do not know that this is true, but an argument could certainly be made that it is.

But Genady, if it is, with all due respect, you have not demonstrated in any way shape or form that the Metropipe service was in any way, shape or form, untrustworthy or unreliable.

That is not intended as some weak justification, but merely a statement of fact.

Both my clients were extremely pleased with Metropipe, and I have seen Metropipe in the field, hands on.

There was alot of slander and innuendo regarding Metropipe. I dug as deep as I could and ultimately found nothing. Oh, I read alot of web posts pointing fingers at Metropipe, making wild, angry charges and accusations, and really grasping for straws, but ultimately found nothing. Lots of damning posts, lots of heated allegations and conclusions. Unless something recent has surfaced, I never found anything that truly substantiated that Metropipe was untrustworthy. That operate a great network, reliable, with great speeds.

The essence of the complaints seemed to be, Genady, was that no one really knew who Metropipe was. I think people found that unsettling. One could imply, and infer alot from that, but that was as far as it went. Simply because one cannot verify someone’s identity does not verify that they are an adversary.

But where Metropipe failed miserably was due to an almost total lack of support and accessibility. My clients complained miserably about that. It was sometimes weeks before support emails were answered which caused considerable frustration.

But as long as the network was in good order, and one had configured the software properly on the machine, one was in good shape. Mailvault, however always has been broken and is a joke.

It often seemed as though Metropipe just didn't care. It is still in existence and remains that way to this day.

I have never seen any hard evidence, however, that Metropipe was untrustworthy. The most stinging allegation I read, was that they were a government sponsored honeypot of some sort. Damning indeed, but never anything to prove conclusively that this was true.

I pondered the honeypot argument for quite some time and concluded, personally that it had no merit. You are certainly free to disagree. We are probably looking at the same empirical data.

But the whole honeypot argument, frankly never washed for me.

Of what purpose would it serve to develop software, establish a network, attract subscribers merely for the purpose of watching all that juicy traffic? What good does that do? There are probably malicious or government sponsored Tor exit nodes which is certainly not a reason to avoid Tor. How interesting it must be to see all this colorful traffic passing by and have no idea where it came from, or worse, what to even do with that data?

I conclude that while interesting, a honeypot operation would be most unproductive.

Unless you have seen something different, I am unaware that anyone using Metropipe was ever arrested or prosecuted as a result of using Metropipe And would that not ultimately be the point? The exception would be if a user was engaging in clearly criminal or fraudulent activity., in which case they get what they deserve. Lots of heated allegations, but not a single shred of evidence that Metropipe was dirty or that anyone was ever harmed from using Metropipe. And to me, that is where the rubber meets the road.

Now: It really is all a matter of trust.Trust is very subjective. If one simply doesn't trust Xerobank or Metropipe fine. That is a choice.

It would not at all surprise me if Metropipe staff had jumped ship over to Xerobank. That happens in business all the time does it not?
From what I’ve seen of Metropipe, they had a really great model, but were terribly flawed in terms of organization. They look pretty broken to me. Broken, but not untrustworthy.

I know you think you're really on to something here. I respect that. Personally, I beg to differ.

The business world is full of great, former companies, who had great ideas and innovative people that wound up on the rocks of failure. And wound up incarnating with a different organizational model as a different company and would up successful.

Genady, I’ve seen Metropipe in action. If they were the only game in town, I’d use them in a heartbeat. I have no reservations in saying that.
Hope and pray, however, that I never needed support or problem resolution, if so, I’d probably be hosed. But my clients seldom if ever, needed support. Their network operated very well and delivered on the expectation of privacy.

By contrast Steve’s representation of Xerobank is open, available and accessible.

Personally, I welcome Xerobank’s enormous, positive contributions to the privacy community, Metropipe connection or not….

B