AntiTrojan reviews

Discussion in 'Trojan Defence Suite' started by haknwak, Oct 13, 2002.

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  1. haknwak

    haknwak Registered Member

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    I hear only highest regards for TDS out there. However in reviewing PestPatrol I ran across something that really says quite the opposite.

    Any experience here on this particular test performed by NTSL - http://pestpatrol.com/Whitepapers/NSTL_Report.pdf - where TDS was placed squarely below products such as PestPatrol, PC Cillin, Tauscan, NAV and Mcafee.

    I have to think there is a little hanky panky going on here. It's not plain to me how PestPatrol can rate so much higher.

    I am considering TDS in my corp network.

    TYVM
     
  2. javacool

    javacool BrightFort Moderator

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    Well, you always have to consider the test is on the pest patrol website - I doubt it would rate Pest Patrol poorly. ;) Pest Patrol's makers contracted NTSL to do the test. Also, the test is done on "pests" (and on pest patrol's definition of pests too) - which include cookies, spyware, etc. I'm not surprised Pest Patrol pulls out in front (especially considering how it only tests items Pest Patrol covers...)

    TDS is one of the best anti-trojan applications out there and provides, for sure, the most methods of scanning and the most flexibility. It would definitely be a good choice for your corp. network. Pest Patrol has had quite a few problems lately (there should be other posts in this forum about them somewhere) and also tends to have quite a few false-positives in my tests (and is also a memory hog).

    Pest Patrol, IMHO, tries to do everything - and does it only marginally. TDS does trojans, and does them extremely well. :)

    Regards,

    -Javacool
     
  3. marti

    marti Registered Member

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    Pest Patrol is in "bad shape" right now, refer to this thread: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=3785
     
  4. root

    root Registered Member

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    Hi haknwak. There is a great deal of "testing" that goes on for different product makers, that is certainly biased.
    There is also some testing going on that is done by independant agencies, that gives a fairly good idea of how various programs do as opposed to their competitors. Unfortunately, there is a decided lack of independant testing going on for Anti Trojan software. There are some, of course, but there are many more for Anti Virus programs. I'm sure some of us can come up with some reliable testing sources if you feel inclined to do some research.
    I think it is safe to say, that amongst the professionals in the security field, TDS3 wins hands down over all competition. It is far and away a much more comprehensive program than any of the competitors. You will find an occasional individual that has a dislike for TDS3 for one reason or another, but with a little testing on your own machine if would care to, you will soon see that TDS3 cannot be beat.
    Also, those that have already purchased TDS3, will get a free upgrade to TDS4, which looks to be an even more awsome Anti Trojan program, with many improvements. Soon to be released hopefully.
    Pest Patrol got off to a rocky start, looked like they were getting their act together, but lately have steadily gone downhill. I think they tried to be all things to all people and found they could not pull it off.
    I firmly believe if you choose TDS3, you will never regret it. :)
     
  5. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=3588
    Point also to the independent test mentioned here, where TDS came out # 1 from 42 anti-trojans.

    Read through this forum and have some impressions about the product, use, support, users helping users, how people are educated in security and kept in the drivers seat to keep the system in their hands and not have intruders or trojans/worms gaining in any way.
    For your company it will be good news to know soon beside TDS-4 (in the build) there will be two more very interesting tools which Wayne described as making it all together a complete protection which i would complete with WormGuard (i have it always in the background protecting for any script or worm to run at all)
    So the other two new products will make protection even more easy and less experienced users can handle those.
    We have seen here in the support forums although there is a lot to learn and for TDS the learning can be quite an experience but people learn to manage step by step and to discover new uses.
    I love the scripting possibility (which i must admit i used more for experimenting with some fun scripts) with lots of possibilities to add functions which are really useful in business surroundings.
    More companies choose TDS for many reasons, as protection needs more advanced tools by the day.
     
  6. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

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    There are a lot of dubious tests out there, but if you're wondering which anti-trojan detects the most trojans, all you have to do is scroll back through the "TDS Database Update" posts in the updates section of this forum, and you'll see that we're the only company that updates databases daily, and almost always with quite a lot of trojans. Compare these posts to the posts of other programs, and you'll be quite surprised at how far other programs are falling behind. We have over 17,000 trojan references, most other anti-trojan systems only reference a few thousand. I'll let you do the maths.

    Whenever somebody posts a question regarding the credibility of an anti-trojan test, please direct them to this page:
    http://www.diamondcs.com.au/info/trojantestcredibility.htm - "Hints for determining the credibility of anti-trojan tests". It applies to all tests equally.

    ... and one last thing. If you see a review by Company X (any anti-trojan company) that is hosted on Company X's (or affiliates) website, don't believe a word it says, I can tell you right now without even reading it that it has been designed simply to sell Company X's anti-trojan program and make the competition look bad. Chances are high that the tests were made up out of thin air and the results fabricated. There's no two ways about this, and for this reason we don't have any such biased reviews on our website - we let our software do the talking for us.

    Best regards,
    Wayne Langlois / DiamondCS
     
  7. Mr.Blaze

    Mr.Blaze The Newbie Welcome Wagon

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    Wayne my man dont worry about a thing old Blazy gots your back here it is the truth as it is.

    TDS-3 deals in trojans and even worms and things that are hostile to your pc that would put it in a damageing state.

    other software deals on a majority of useless things like tokens spyware some trojans a little bit of everything typ thing but not exactly everything thats out there.

    what is a token lol token is a prank utlity meant for fun which usely you can stop by clicking on esc key or control alt delet at the same time ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wah big deal.

    see other software deals in just that anoying pests that are perty easy to get rid of.

    TDS-3 deals in real things that can damage your system with up to date almost daily updates algaints the most pc damageing trojans and worms.

    so what if other software can find cookies and computer pranks that go alway after reboot big deal.

    if your going to go up algaints evil hackers whole soley write up trojans and worms to destroy your pc do you want to go up algaints them with a water pistol like other software or a big tank like tds that says f u try algain return to sender lol.

    personaly im ashame of other software vendors missleading people and my newbys by saying such things it is simply mud slinging a despreat atempt to get more customers.

    im sorry but newbys deserve to know the truth.

    wayne you dont have to defend yourself here the newbys know the real deal if you want the very best get tds-3 and boclean for extra and leave all others to the slaughter.

    dont be fooled by garbage programs that talk smak just to try to make them selfs look better then they are.

    where newbys dosent mean where stupit lol.

    editted by Forum Admin - no need for "other specific software bashing"
     
  8. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    I can say, DCS has spoken for me in 1999 when i first surfed on it, after in my innocense being hacked badly with the loss of a complete pc, unrepairable. Shaking, fear, not knowing what and where to look for and how to defend, getting educated step by step, picked up from the bottom and that was really the bottom and when i was able to understand TDS-2 we were talking about that time, i was able to shop around and look for myself and see with my own eyes and compare and try etc.
    Education went on and i learned to work with more tools and with TDS-3 via the msagents learned little bit of scripting and with all that, that security can be fun!
    So with that we are able to make TDS central on our system and rule all processes and our household, starting our coffee maker and washing machine on given times, whatever we want and even remembering we are dealing with a security tool in fact, unlimited by its possibilities or better said only limited by our imaginations.
    Of course the TDS operators family are very devoted users and we can but discover new possibilities with it for ourselves, our systems, internet community as a whole with that.
    Getting more educated by the day, knowing to smack the hackers and slamm their ISPs with the right comments and logfiles of the right security tools and being taken serious in that area, and with all the questions people surf into with required system files, settings, explanations about windows versions differences etc etc.
    And i lost my fear for nasties, trojans, worms as we know if they can run they can be discovered, we learned how to safely handling them and in the few cases we would not see them in the primaries (maybe under another name we did nto recognize immediately) submitting them to the lab in a safe way...... what more do we want to know?
    Think about all has been said, i just don't need tests.
    We've seen knowledgeable operators jump on a complete innocent reviewer in one of the known magazines and with the right arguments. Education on the stage, that's it!
    The proof of the barbie is in the eating what's on it, to change a known english saying into a more suitable one, so TDS and WG for me please. Thanks Wayne for creating it!
     
  9. DrSeltsam

    DrSeltsam Guest

    >We have over 17,000 trojan references, most other anti-trojan systems only reference a few
    >thousand. I'll let you do the maths.

    Do we both agree that the quality and not the quantity of the signatures is decive for the effectivity and power of a AT program?
     
  10. Mr.Blaze

    Mr.Blaze The Newbie Welcome Wagon

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    :Di belive tds has both quality and quantity its saved my but so many times it not funny and everybody knows that i go off to dangerious places and i survived this long lol.

    plus galvin and wayne inspect my stuff when i submit it and literly get back to me the next day saying it is either a false they even take in stuff that other avs say are trojans if tds says there not to make sure.

    they give a real personal touch to everything.

    and they keep it confindenthial if need be how many companys do that lol.
     
  11. Gavin - DiamondCS

    Gavin - DiamondCS Former DCS Moderator

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    I do, thats why I feel good when I analyse a new trojan and the first thing I do is check if it can be detected already in any way - usually a Process Memory scan will make a positive detection from a signature of an old variant. These signatures are always carefully chosen with that being the most important thing, so that detection is high on new and modified variants.

    If the trojan is completely new, there is quite often a generic detection in memory if not in just a file scan. That is pleasing as well :)
     
  12. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

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    Yes, but whether you're talking about quality of signatures or quantity, TDS-3 wins hands-down -- we're the only anti-trojan company with a dedicated full-time analyst, it's simply not possible for other anti-trojan 'companies' (most comprising of just 1 person) to produce as many quality signatures as Gavin does because they simply don't have time to do that, especially when they're the same person that is 1) handling sales, 2) handling support, 3) programming, 4) maintaining the website, 5) handling public relations, and so on. This is why we're consistantly adding quality detection for more trojans than anybody else - we're dedicated to the task and we have more people dedicated to the task than anyone else. But what's new ... :)

    Best regards,
    Wayne
     
  13. DrSeltsam

    DrSeltsam Guest

    >Yes, but whether you're talking about quality of signatures or quantity,
    >TDS-3 wins hands-down

    Quality, yes. Quantity, no.

    >we're the only anti-trojan company with a dedicated full-time analyst, it's
    >simply not possible for other anti-trojan 'companies' (most
    >comprising of just 1 person) to produce as many quality signatures as
    >Gavin does because they simply don't have time to do that, especially

    Wrong. SaferSite has some special analyst as far as i know :eek:). The german program Anti-Trojan has one person that do the signatures and one that develope, too.
     
  14. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Is this related to how the several anti-trojan products come out of independent tests results?

    Seeing the other posting talking about 17,000 references, it's almost 19,000 now, so many new ones in such a short time ... Gavin, you leave the trojan writers without time to spare, eat or think out new nasties, making them into sleepless zombies ... (is that where all the ddossing comes from?) :p
     
  15. Mr.Blaze

    Mr.Blaze The Newbie Welcome Wagon

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    lol andreas shouldnt you be working on that new trojan detector lo you seem to be playing here at wilders almost as much as i do lol

    i think you would had finish most of the program by now i dont think you know how much we alpreaciate you and your software espechialythose of us who cant aford software.

    alot of us like you and aprechiate you but lately you seem distracted from the task in hand

    i see you talking about boclean and gladiators program even though its only and alpha not even in the beta stages but its comeing along great.

    and now TDS

    shouldnt you be puting together a great trojan av that dosent have these so called aleged weaknesses.

    i personaly have been looking foward to your new av so whats up
     
  16. TonyKlein

    TonyKlein Security Expert

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    LOL :D :D
     
  17. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

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    MrBlaze you highlight another good point - for somebody that should be spending precious time developing an anti-trojan solution to all the problems that he talks about, Andreas certainly spends a lot of time here in the TDS forum doing nothing but attacking TDS. Why, I don't know. Maybe he's just bored of programming and perhaps jealous of where TDS\DiamondCS is heading (full-steam ahead). Either way, it's clear that his idea of professional conduct is somewhat different to ours -- he chooses to go out and attack other anti-trojan companies, we don't, but I suspect that's because he's still so young so you can't go hard on him.

    Well, some of us have a lot of work to do ...

    Best regards,
    Wayne
     
  18. DrSeltsam

    DrSeltsam Guest

    >MrBlaze you highlight another good point - for somebody that should be spending precious time
    >developing an anti-trojan solution to all the problems that he talks about, Andreas certainly
    >spends a lot of time here in the TDS forum doing nothing but attacking TDS.

    *lol* - if i would like to attack TDS i would make the encryption details of your database public for example or will post a few details about your mutexes ... - never did something like this :eek:).

    I told it several times. There are many ways to learn. I prefer learning by analyzing errors and weaknesses of my own and other products. I don't know what kind of learning you prefer ... .

    >Maybe he's just bored of programming

    Nope - but i don't program 24 hours a day.
     
  19. Primrose

    Primrose Registered Member

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    I find it hard to program people :eek:..I have seen many people try to do that...but it never comes out right in the end...just like when the cash register is empty and you ring up a "no sale". People stop walking into your store...even if you are giving stuff away.
     
  20. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

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    Right, so now you're threatening? It was only a few months back, you may recall, when you emailed me saying that you were going to write a worm to specifically attack TDS3 (I can forward you the emails if you dont have them anymore) - was that not an attack on TDSo_O While we spend our time analysing trojans, figuring out new ways to detect them and protect the public from them (which is a full-time job requiring several people - how you do it alone I have no idea), you're spending your time analysing and reverse-engineering our software (we're flattered - thanks) and using our forums to promote your software and demote ours -- this shows many things, namely that you aren't committed to collecting/analysing/detecting trojans, and that to get any sales you need to attack other software from companies who don't attack back because they have better things to do -- you clearly don't have much to do. And people trust your software running on their computers? And if TDS isn't so good, why are you wasting so much time trying to reverse engineer secrets out of it? Clearly you want TDS technology in your software - once again, we're flattered, and that says a lot for TDS, but that's contradictive to everything you say.

    Andreas you'll be 18 soon - legally old enough to vote in Germany - and you'll no longer be seen as a child in the eyes of the law. If I was you I'd seriously stop and think about how you defame programs in an attempt to promote yours - many companies and lawyers don't take kindly to such unprofessional practices, you're in the real business world now.

    You've made yourself fairly clear so I guess we can close this unproductive thread now before we waste any more of your time, I'm sure you've got something important to do other than trying to steal our technology and our work.

    Best regards,
    Wayne
     
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