Anonymous Services - Can We Get A List Going And Feedback?

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by DasFox, Nov 2, 2010.

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  1. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Of course there's nothing wrong with using PayPal, as long as you don't mind the evidence trail. The Ukraine is beautiful in the fall :)

    Nope.

    I'm plugging it because it works, and it isn't a scam.

    I would never use WM-centre or LR without going through two nested VPNs or Tor. I wouldn't use Bitcoins without going through VPNs. Maybe using VPNs has put me on watch lists. But I've been doing it for 15 years, and haven't heard a peep yet ;)

    That's good advice.
     
  2. Countermail

    Countermail Registered Member

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    Regarding payments for anonymous services in USA. In the Nordic countries we have an exchanger called Forex where you can do wire transfers (bank transfer) and pay with cash. They don't demand identification for small amounts. So you can do anonymous wire transfers (as far as I know the camera tapes is only stored for a limited time, one month is standard here in Sweden).

    In USA you have: http://www.travelex.com in 200 locations, they say they can do international wires. It would be nice if some could confirm this about TravelEx.

    But there are other ways, use a provider which don't store the payment info for a longer period. In my opinion the key is to protect the "connection" between a payment and a certain account. It does not matter if someone can see that you made a payment to a certain company, as long as they can't trace it any deeper. I know some anonymous services where this payment<-->account connection is deleted automatically, or can be deleted manually by the user.
     
  3. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

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    That's a blanket statement that you can't say with certainty. You don't know the threat model one might be working under. PayPal will give up your info in an instant to a U.S. order. What's so hard to understand about that? *SIGH* (To use your own show of disgusted emotions here.)

    You're right, you wouldn't have to worry about people in the Ukraine, but you'd have to worry about people in San Jose, CA - the headquarters of PayPal, Inc.
     
  4. luciddream

    luciddream Registered Member

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    Re. Mullvad: inconsistent. Sometimes it's just as quick as iVPN for me (which has hardly any impact), and other times there's lag.

    But as it's the only VPN I trust with a truly anonymous payment method, I'm willing to take that trade off. I only use it for certain things anyway, sparingly.

    And as you've stated before, it really doesn't matter how you pay for the VPN you connect to directly. I think I'd just use Paypal before going through all that other trouble. Not to mention the fact that I don't really believe that things like BitCoin & Liberty Reserve are anonymous, or truthworthy.
     
  5. ComputerSaysNo

    ComputerSaysNo Registered Member

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    Your right I don't know the threat model. But I refuse to help amateur paedophiles try and hide themselves. Or amateur carders for that matter.

    You must (knowing your post history) understand the power of the information we are posting. You are a leading voice in this forum so people will follow your moves so we all have a responsibility to give all the information not just bits of positive nformation. We must add that you have to be very careful who you get into bed with when dealing with privacy.

    We should acknowledged that services like Mullvad are well known and talked about on TOR hidden service forums that are based around hacking and paedophilia.
     
  6. ComputerSaysNo

    ComputerSaysNo Registered Member

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    I'll add to my statement: I'm for full disclosure of information. But I understand their are consequences for revealing information that may be sensitive. Stuff like bugs/exploits should be known to all for example: TOR's main site was being MITM attacked through a exploit in cyberroam routers. Now that should be discussed here but stuff like how to get LR I think needs caution.

    If you google VPN this thread is one of the first entries that comes up.
     
  7. CasperFace

    CasperFace Registered Member

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    If you prefer the mail-in cash option, you can go with Cryptohippie, Mullvad, Cryptocloud, or Perfect Privacy... and possibly others as well.

    PayPal is fine IF you know how to set it up anonymously. If done correctly, the only likely trail of evidence is the security camera footage from the store where you purchased the card (that you paid for in CASH)... and even that can be mitigated by some out-of-the-box thinking. ;)

    Having said that, it's probably not even necessary for most users to worry about these anonymous payment techniques, unless you live in a country where it's actually illegal to use VPNs or other circumvention tools. Otherwise, the mere act of having paid for a VPN service is generally NOT (in itself) sufficient evidence of any wrongdoing.

    But assuming you live in a country where VPN usage is permitted, I think the main justification for paying anonymously is to prevent wild goose chase attacks, in which an adversary demands a list of all customers from country "x". As LockBox mentioned, it all depends on what your particular threat/risk model is.
     
  8. ComputerSaysNo

    ComputerSaysNo Registered Member

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    I agree with you there. You explained it very well.

    If you live in the USA you can use Green Dot Money Paks to fund paypal (have they changed this with the new rules?). Be careful there is a Green Dot malware around. But this method is far better than dealing with LR.
     
  9. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Seriously?

    -https://www.moneypak.com/Paypal/Index.aspx

    I might as well just use my wife's AmEx ;)
     
  10. PaulyDefran

    PaulyDefran Registered Member

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    Pedophiles and Drug Dealers also use 99% of the stuff you use...if you choose to avoid everything they use, you'll be in a cave with a candle. IMO, that is a specious argument. I am law abiding. I choose to keep whatever I want, private. BitCoin provides this, so I will use it, and that makes it a valid service.

    Also, IMO, paying anonymously, even for a direct connect VPN, is beneficial. If the provider is the target, and not you (yet)...your payment data is not with them. Even if they watched connections, you could be in a house full of people...who's *actually* using the VPN? If you paid with a CC, that is one more box ticked against you. Same applies if *you're* the target...with no payment info in your financial data, anyone could be on the VPN at that location.

    Other than the added complexity of the transaction, there is no downside to paying anon...it's one of the few things that *you* control...a rare thing in today's world. Even if you think it doesn't help...it doesn't hurt.

    BitInstant through Tor/VPN and BitLaundry through Tor/VPN...then through the BTC Client on Tor/VPN, with a new Wallet...is pretty darn anonymous. There's no *who*, to put on a list.

    PD
     
  11. luciddream

    luciddream Registered Member

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    Actually, I'm sure pedophiles & drug dealers have at some moment in history used candles. And someone, somewhere has probably gotten high in a cave before as well.

    This falls along the old (and IMO, severely flawed) rationale that: "if you have nothing to hide, you don't need to hide". Once we start just handing over our rights to privacy because we "have nothing to hide", and give that inch, they'll take a mile. Some people are oblivious to this bigger picture, by choice or otherwise.

    Should you be entitled to pull the blinds in your own house?... or should you have to prove that you're not engaging in pedophilia or drug use to do so?

    or put a fence around your yard?

    Attitudes like this will make it easy for the powers that be to invoke things like martial law. Heck, we'll be asking them to, to stop all these perverts, and "terrorists" with nuke suitcases that we just know are all over the place ; )
     
  12. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

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    I'm not sure I'm following you. Surely you're not suggesting that utilizing anonymous payment methods make one a pedophile? Absolutely anything can be abused. We could have a discussion on knives or guns at forums with those interests, should they be considered murderers because of their interest? You can use a knife to butter bread or plunge it into a human being. A gun can be used to hunt prey, protect your family or it can be abused and used for criminal purposes.

    The desire for privacy and anonymity should not be looked on with suspicion. Look at your statement again...do you really believe that our discussing methods for better privacy makes us ..... in your words.... "amateur pedophiles?" (As opposed to "professional" pedophiles?). Or, that we are assisting them by our discussion?

    I just really don't know how to take your statement. Especially in a forum titled, "Privacy Technology." You wrote just a month ago, in this post, that you "don't bother with privacy related stuff these days." So I have to wonder, why are you here? Why bother yourself with a forum about, your words again, "privacy related stuff?"
     
  13. CasperFace

    CasperFace Registered Member

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    When did this happen? :eek: Last time I checked, there were NO identity checks whatsoever as long as the annual amount was under $200. This new policy is very disconcerting.

    Now if you want an anonymous PayPal account, I think you can still find a way, but you're going to have to get more creative... something along the lines of having two PayPal accounts and buying something from "yourself". In this case you'd need at least TWO good clean U.S. IP addresses; otherwise it'll set off a red flag if you appear to have more than one account or if they detect that you're using a proxy or VPN.

    Unfortunately, this is much more of a hassle; probably not recommendable to the average user given the amount of time and effort involved. :mad:
     
  14. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    I doubt that one can get PayPal accounts, especially merchant accounts, without full ID and bank account information. Basically, one would need complete fake IDs, with counterfeit credentials. That would be worse than using LR, I think. It would certainly be more expensive.
     
  15. happyyarou666

    happyyarou666 Registered Member

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    +1 for lockbox, every bit of text was right on the money

    lmfao thanks for that , you made me smile there for a bit :D

    seriously i never expected you to be such a mind in the box thinker computersaysno no offense , nor for you just for the sake of stating an oppinion to join the paedophile excuse train ,how original :rolleyes: , but whatever makes you happy i guess , i dont think the privacy technology section is your strong side as others have mentioned , perhaps we shouldnt be using countermail ,riseup or other secure email accounts either rather use msn and yahoo accounts

    instead so the NSA has it easier to digg theyre noses into our private life , families buisness and so on ,or we might become a "target of interest" aka amateur paedophiles, wonders what a pro paedophile does :rolleyes: , terrorists or whatever your imagination can come up with , lols , dont let the brainwashing media get to you , but who am i to say , its up to you what to believe and when to use healthy common sense

    p.s: perhaps in the future wilders will be a vip members only forum , so no invite no entrance , kinda like private torrent sites ;) plus a psychoanalysis if your a paedophile , terrorist , cheater , carder or whatnot , if you fail one question you get visited by the partyvan xD
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  16. CasperFace

    CasperFace Registered Member

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    That's true. If you needed a bona-fide merchant account to do this, it would defeat the purpose. A better option would be to just send money as a gift to a "friend" (a.k.a. your other stealth PayPal account). Assuming you're able to send the money using a prepaid debit card that you purchased with cash, then the transfer will be anonymous. That's the big question though: can this actually be done in the current environment of increasingly harsh rules, or will PayPal just complain about it and give you an error message?
     
  17. CasperFace

    CasperFace Registered Member

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    It looks like a decent Russian-based provider, with OpenVPN servers in US, Russia, Egypt, Germany, Netherlands, and UK. Their FAQ states that they don't keep logs, but their TOS certainly implies that they might take a "peek" at your traffic if they suspect you're up to no good. ;) It also looks like they're affiliated with the site Whoer.net, which happens to be an excellent resource for checking your anonymity.
     
  18. ComputerSaysNo

    ComputerSaysNo Registered Member

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    Just stirring you paranoid buggers honestly :p Baited lol... I always love it when you guys defend the dark side of privacy.
     
  19. happyyarou666

    happyyarou666 Registered Member

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    suuure thats what id wouldve said too , lols ;)
     
  20. ComputerSaysNo

    ComputerSaysNo Registered Member

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    ahhahaha sorry but sometimes you guys are too easy to stir, carry on.
     
  21. bolehvpn

    bolehvpn Registered Member

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    I don't think there's a fool proof way of being completely protected from legal action unless you're in some crappy country (which I would think would have crappy net). I think the key is to make it as not worthwhile as possible.

    I don't think a commercial VPN should be used if you are intending to conduct some high profile crime that would bring such wrath and resources against you. However, we still make it pretty damn difficult. Our customer database (which can be faked) is not located in Malaysia and the only thing located in Malaysia is our website and some game servers.

    Our VPN servers do not have any direct communication with our customer database either unlike a lot of other VPNs which rely on a central authentication.

    Being in Malaysia means I'm subject to the laws here which do not have data retention policies and no DMCA legal equivalent. It also makes it that much more unattractive to pursue a legal action against us. Courts here are slow. :p
     
  22. Techwiz

    Techwiz Registered Member

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    Fire safety laws require the manufacturers of security doors to provide an emergency access key by law. I'm not sure off the top of my head whether this is on a state-by-state basis or a federal requirement. I'll have to look that up, but it seems convenient to let law enforces enter a residence especially if it would prevent a house fire, etc. But, I would not extend that trust to agencies such as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). The ATF is not the only agencies exploiting uneducated and misinformed citizens. Privacy should be protected, whether it is needed or not. I believe the same mentality should be applied when looking at internet security and privacy. The government is trusted by a lot of legitimate companies, and they are required legally to comply in certain circumstances. That doesn't mean, I have to trust them myself, nor that I have to make a legal search and seizure simple or easy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  23. TheKid7

    TheKid7 Registered Member

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    I am thinking adding my first VPN Service in the near future. How is SecurityKiss (Paid)? I am willing to pay for the VPN Service as long as it is highly rated by users. What are some of the other choices for a Paid VPN Service?

    Thanks in Advance.
     
  24. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Many have been mentioned in this thread :)

    AirVPN, BolehVPN, Insorg, iVPN, Mullvad, PrivateInternetAccess, StrongVPN, ...

    I don't know SecurityKiss.
     
  25. tooth

    tooth Registered Member

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    I had a free trial of SecurityKiss, and use the free version when traveling on the road for work. I personally like it, no speed issues on either version.
     
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