"Analyzing Partitions" Hell: Fixes Don't Work

I'm still thinking it's hardware problem.

If a clean install using an original XP install CD doesn't work it is definitely hardware.

Are you able to get into the BIOS?

Have you tried running MEMTEST86+ ? Can be run from a bootable CD or a USB test

The above test needs to run for at least 12 hours and 24 is better.

Colin

 

And PS to Colin, I'm wondering you weren't right about it being a power problem... maybe the PSU is wonky.

 

Hello Colin! Didn't see your post until after I sent the last.

Never heard of memtest86+but will go Google it.

And yes, I can get into BIOS but there isn't much there. The BIOS options on this laptop are skimpy to say the least.

 

I just installed XP on the newly formatted, partitioned drive, from the original Dell CD. A fresh install. Once it finished, I did not add or do anything.

Instead I plugged in a memory stick just to test USB response. Since it's the first time I'm using a USB port, I expect XP has to locate the driver and install it. So I wait. It eventually finds it and shows the drive. I unplug it. It takes several seconds for the drive to disappear from the tree and for the sys icon to disappear.

I wait 30 secs or so, and plug it in again. It takes about 6 seconds to realize it has a USB device plugged in. After I unlplug it, it takes maybe 6 secs for the tray icon to disappear, and 10 secs for the drive to disappear.

But the next time I try, (like a minute later, having done nothing on the computer between), it takes a totally different amount of time. Just now it took nearly 30 secs to realize I plugged something in... and as long to realize I unplugged it.

I checked Device Mgr, and I have yellow exclamations on all the other hardware because I haven't loaded the Dell drivers yet, but the USB controllers appear to be fine (and report working correctly).

When this happened before I could boot into Safe Mode and the USB ports would work correctly. So I booted into SM and they responded consistently at about 6 secs to recognize the drive, and when I unplugged, INSTANTLY responded, as they should.

So it looks like I already have the problem that I need to define before going any further. If this is hardware related (bad USB controller?) then why does it work correctly in Safe Mode?? Could *this* be a memory problem? What does it sound like to you? (anyone?)

 

PS... Gonna load the DELL drivers and maybe a few other proggies depending on how the thing behaves. Will start memtest when I'm done for the night, and let it run overnight and into tomorrow for 24hrs. Thanks for the suggestion. I have a feeling it's not the memory, but that would be the most convenient and cheapest problem to fix, so it makes sense to rule it out first.

 

Memtest86+ results

Shortly after my last message I got the same BSOD I had before about a boot volume problem. Knowing what happened last time, I ran chkdsk and it found all kinds of errors on the brand new, freshly formatted drive, with basically nothing on it but XP and Dell drivers.

I had chkdsk fix the errors and popped in the Memtest86+ CD. After 15 hours of running (and still counting) no errors detected.

 

If this were a desktop PC I would be suggesting that you check/replace the IDE/SATA cable next. However, since it's a laptop there may not be much that you can do other than replacing the motherboard. You could take a careful look at the connector between the disk and motherboard to look for any obvious damage, but if that doesn't lead anywhere and your memory tests OK then your options are becoming more limited.

 

Right. There isn't a cable on this laptop. The drive slides into a bay with a SATA connector that interfaces directly with the SATA interface on the drive.

 

Hi Remm,

I have to agree with others this is probably a hardware issue. I encountered the same problem recently where analyzing partitions would never complete only on the slave drive. This had always worked prior with no problems. I tried many solutions, but after spending numerous hours looking at the BIOS and reloading software, I made no progress. After ruling out the drives, I replaced the motherboard and everything worked perfect. I can only conclude something with the motherboard was defective and affected the internal USB port to IDE connection with the Acronis software, but didn't seem to affect anything else. The two drives could read and write in Windows, but the Acronis software would just hang on startup. Luckily I had spare drives and a motherboard for testing to make this issue less painfull.

Good Luck!

 

I agree, too.

Remm,

I was sure it was a bad hard drive that was failing due to bad drive electronics, but that has been ruled out. Since Memtest hasn't found any RAM errors in 15 hours, that's pretty well ruled out although Windows install is the best memory tester invented.

I suppose if you wanted to spend a bit more time, you could install the new hard drive and pull one of the SIMMs and try a fresh Dell install or TI Restore. If it's the same, swap the SIMMs and try once more. If that's just as bad, it's got to be the motherboard.

I hope the system is under warranty.

 

And back through the rabbit hole...

jb and John, thanks for your responses. The laptop is out of warranty by 6 months. I'm not sure that it would be worth repairing since Dell likely charges an arm and a leg, but I *would* inquire as to how much a mobo is, if I'm sure that's it. But I'm not quite ready to go there... something is still niggling me... namely, why does it work in Safe Mode or when MS Services are stopped in MSCONFIG? This makes me think it is not hardware. That, and the memtest results, coupled with the Dell diagnostics run on the hardware that came back clean, all make me doubt the hardware conclusion just a little.

I let memtest run nearly 24 hrs before shutting it down and still no errors, so I don't know how productive it would be to try fresh installs one module at a time, though I would have had to head down that road had I received an error, so I'm glad I didn't!

Not knowing what else to do, I decided to put back in my old drive, create the partitions as I had them, and restore the last BU image I made *after* all this trouble started, just before I wiped and reformatted. I kept that image because it has my system as I need it (current), and I had scanned the bejesus out of it, so I knew it wasn't a virus. (Also when I restored the older image made before the trouble started, the problem persisted, so I might as well use the current image.) <-- [and that DOES make it seem like a hardware issue, I agree]

And btw in case anyone is wondering, (and if it reveals any clue as to the problem or lack thereof), I restored using the external drive, but from BARTPE CD Backup XML program. (I uninstalled Acronis at one point as reported long ago when I thought a bad install might be the problem, then I've been waiting until I fix this problem to reinstall.)

Note that the USB works fine from a CD boot!

So while I was restoring the drive, I was Googling [on the desktop] for recognition problems with USB, and came across two MS articles I hadn't seen before.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925196/

and

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314634#LetMeFixItMyself

The first has to do with eliminating two registry keys that are USB filters, and the second has to do with making sure the Open Host Controller Interface (OHCI) cannot enter a suspended state. (I had manually done the latter through the normal config menus, but this makes those menu choices grayed out and kind of permanently keeps the setting from going into suspend.)

I did NOT try the USB before applying these two fixes, as I just got the laptop back up and didn't want to get immediately depressed with a bad result. I figured I'd do something the laptop could consider good juju and THEN try.

So I applied the fixes, rebooted, and plugged in the memory stick. It immediately detected it, and the drive appeared in Explorer reasonably quick. This isn't necessarily due to the fixes, as I left this system still booting with a few MS Services disabled in MSCONFIG.

BUT listen to this... my last drive letter (the DVD/CD ROM) is I:\ so the USB device should've been J:\. Instead Explorer assigned it "S:\" ... Is this a clue? Is it a drive mapping problem? And would that support the bad motherboard theory?

 

Re: And back through the rabbit hole...

The fact that you are getting non consistent results makes me think, you would be advised (if at all possible) to just load a known good copy of Windows + a known clean copy of the Dell drivers, install a clean copy of a firewall and A/V software and then see what happens.

If it all behaves, then add TI back in and see what happens, and so on and so forth.

You would need to give at least a days worth of running inbetween adding programs back on.

I still go back to a flaky power supply, probably on the motherboard itself, nasty and incosistent power causes all sorts of mayhem.

Colin

 

Re: And back through the rabbit hole...

Those are good points; and since it's out of warranty, that makes any repair or replacement a lot more expensive. So, pursuing an alternative is that much more justified.

I think checking with Dell tech support at this point would be an excellent idea. First, wipe the original hard drive and then install the Dell Windows and drivers. Do the Windows updates; and if the the system isn't running 100% normally, call Dell tech support. That restore is what they would tell you to do, so you've done it.

Sometimes, Dell offers to replace parts that have had a bad record of failure even after warranty, or they know of problems and how to fix them.

Definitely call Dell at this point.

Then, tell us what they say. We are all very curious as to what is wrong with this system.

 

Colin and John: thank you for the suggestions. I did in fact install a fresh, 'known good' copy of Windows from the original Dell CD I got with the laptop, (which I used when I first bought the laptop so I know it's a good copy), and the last 2 times I tried this, I also used the Dell Drivers CD that came with the laptop, rather than transferring any files from my external drive.

I've done this at least four times on two different drives now. The result in all cases was immediate flakiness with the USB ports. That was with nothing installed but XP... even before I added the Dell drivers. Then I added the drivers, knowing one was a chipset driver, thinking maybe it would make a difference, but it didn't.

In the last 2 fresh installs, I ended up getting the BSOD I spoke of earlier that resulted in massive drive errors that prevented rebooting without using chkdisk.

Oddly, the computer appears to be more stable now with my full image restored, than it was with any of the fresh installs! This is just so bizarre. Nothing about it makes any sense.

I'm going to use the laptop this way for the next 12 hrs or so and see what happens. Then before I call Dell I'll probably take your suggestion and do a fresh install again, with Dell CDs and allow the system to install updates. Updates are the one step I didn't bother with before because this XP CD was sold with this laptop, so I know it works without the updates. But you're right, they will ask if I've done that to cover their bases, so I should go through the motions.

I will report back what they say... and thanks again to all for your input and help. Appreciate it.

 

An update that my laptop has been working fine with the caveat that I'm continuing to leave System Restore Services and System Notification Services disabled, which is how this image was saved/restored, and I didn't change anything b/c I'd found about the most stable way it runs.

I was able to use it all day and night without a problem. The USB ports worked with my memory stick and also a Bluetooth adapter I used to send some print jobs to the printer. I also plugged in the external drive just to see if it would count up the volumes. (The laptop has 6 partitions, and the external has 9.) It did fine with a few hiccups in the process, but I think the external confuses it because the first 6 partitions are clones of the internal drive (made with Acronis), so they are "C, D E F G H" too and XP has to re-assign them.

After that, I opened Diskeeper. You may remember this was the other program that hung, like Acronis, when trying to analyze drives. I always knew if Acronis didn't work, neither would Diskeeper, and if Acronis DID work, so would DK.

DK worked fast and fine. Better than ever. It flashed the drive up so quick, I'd forgotten how it had hung before at first.

Since it was all working so well, I decided to go into MSCONFIG and enable one of the 2 disabled services (System Event Notification Services) to see if it would make a difference. I wanted to see if the old result from my original troubleshooting was repeatable. Sure enough, it caused the memory stick LED to stay on, and the drive did not show up anywhere. I tried another port with the same result.

Diskeeper also hung, as expected. I disabled the MS service again, and all went back to the way it was. Operable. Not perfect. Not exactly right. But operable.

I'm starting to think it's possibly corrupted registry keys, especially since it works in SAFE MODE. Of course this wouldn't explain why the fresh installs were wiggy. (I wonder if I'd stopped these two MS Services...)

For the moment I'm going to take a few days with it, unless I get a BSOD or some other catastrophe that forces me to call Dell sooner rather than later... but I'm still noodling it...

 

Thanks for the update - <scratches head and wrinkles nose in thought>


Colin

 

Here are a reference to problems with System Event Notification:

http://forums.techguy.org/windows-vista-7/602568-system-event-notification-service-meltdown.html

There were some references to running "sfc /scannow" from a Command prompt fixed the problem.

It doesn't appear to be a required service, so until a fix is found, it should be safe to leave Disabled.

The hard question is why is there a problem on a clean install of Windows?

 

John: Oddly enough (or maybe not) I read the very thread you linked to last night when I was Googling for problems related to the Systems Event Notification Services (SENS). Unfortunately, that thread and most others were related to Vista and a different problem. I couldn't find any info that linked it to USB hanging or recognition problems.

As for the sfc/scannow, I might try that tomorrow after I read more about it.... the reservation I have is two-fold: first, I'm not sure if it will replace files that have been updated that I would rather not replace, and secondly I I would like more control over the process. It doesn't show you what it finds, it just does this wholesale replacement process whether you like it or not. I tweak my system and might not want it replacing everything it doesn't recognize or like. I only want it replacing *corrupted* files.

And yes, there are two completely unexplainable mysteries so far, aside from everything else. One is, why didn't the fresh installs work, with nothing loaded but XP SP2 and Dell Drivers, straight from Dell themselves, and bundled with this laptop ... and two, how is it that in one of those fresh installs when I had to remove an ATI hotkey poller that came with the graphic driver, the Search For Files and Folders function could not locate it, even though the file was present, [and the option to hide hidden and system files was unchecked and the Advanced options were engaged]? I manually went to the file myself afterwards, figuring it was in win/sys32... and it was.

And that's another thing... when I first got this laptop I took XP off, repartitioned the drive the way I wanted it, and loaded XP back. At that time I loaded all drivers and the ATI hotkey poller never caused a problem. Then 3 weeks ago I suddenly got keyboard lag, and traced it back to that file... and it was 2 days after removing that file that the USB/Acronis saga began. I'm not suggesting they are related, but the entire thing doesn't make sense. Why would the ATI file cause a problem on a fresh install 3 days ago, when it didn't 18 months ago? Just like, why didn't the USB ports work on the fresh install 3 days ago, when they worked 18 months ago...? and FOR 18 months after that.

I can hear you Colin saying you still think it's a power issue. And I don't disagree. It could be... but it's just so weird how disabling the 2 services or switching to safe mode makes the problem nearly go away. I say nearly b/c it still shows a little weird behavior... like last night after I removed the mem stick for the 4th or 5th time (waiting reasonable amounts of time between), the 'safely remove icon' hung in the sys tray. I Googled a lot about that and am finding that wonkified USB issues and 'safely remove icon issues' are more common than I ever imagined.

IAC I have been working all day on the machine again.... no BSOD... no funky behavior. Haven't had to use the USB ports yet... let me try... yup. Mem sticks worked fine. Detected it right away, and when I unplugged, the drive disappeared after a couple secs. And I just tried Diskeeper... analyzed the drives fine.

I really wanna find the answer to this USB issue, so I will keep researching. And I will look into the sfc option. Thanks again for the continued input.

 

I had a thought last night in bed. I haven't had time to scope it out yet but will do so this evening.

I'm starting to think this is a South Bridge problem, since the SB chip controls USB behavior... which made me wonder if maybe a BIOS, CPU or Chipset driver upgrade could be causing it. But drivers would be wiped when doing a fresh install... so that leaves flashed upgrades only, which would narrow it down to the BIOS.

I know I have done a BIOS upgrade since purchasing the machine... and have also done chipset driver upgrades.

If it were a flashed upgrade causing the problems, that would explain why the machine doesn't behave like it did 18 months ago, even when doing a clean install. It might also explain why something would work in Safe Mode, where Windows might use internal drivers to control the USB ports.

Another interesting thing about this theory is that the SB chip on this machine is an ATI chip... which could have a tie-in to the ATI file that started all this by causing keyboard lag. In some obscure way I still feel like it's all related.

Have to go back to work now but will look into possibly rolling back the BIOS and looking closer at the chipset drivers to see if this could be the answer. What a screwy road I've been down! I feel like I'm getting closer to figuring it out though!

 

You seem to have tried most things except one of the simplest and has worked for many people including myself when Acronis just hangs at analysing partitions - turn off Windows system restore. It's worked for me every time.

 

Hello Faust...

I did in fact disable System Restore Services along with System Event Notification Services a couple weeks ago when I was troubleshooting with MSCONFIG, and those services remain disabled. That condition does allow the USB ports to work reasonably well, and Acronis got through the analyzing process okay, but not lickety split like it does when all is right.

Something isn't right and I prefer using workarounds only until I discover the real problem and fix it.

 

The flakey results when you repeat a reinstall that was previously successfull still make me think this is a motherboard hardware issue. It may be internittant which can drive a squirel nuts.

 

Well, I looked into the BIOS theory, but the only update they've had since I got the laptop was to correct a bug where the machine would think the battery was dead in POST, when it wasn't. So that's not it.

However, I might have a corrupted Southbridge chip. I say that because a short time before all this started, every time I went to lift the laptop off my lap and place it on the floor, I got a shock. Then I'd forget about it, and the next time I lifted it from my lap I'd get shocked again. It happened several times a day for a few days in a row when we were having lots of static electricity in the air. It was always my right hand which was covering the Express Card Slot (which came with a fake plastic card in it to keep it dust-free). Somehow my charged body made contact with the mobo through the slot. A bus runs right up from that card slot to the Southbridge chip which controls it, so who knows... that chip also controls the USB and all other I/O devices.

Which reminds me... how is a laptop mobo grounded?? Maybe my ground screw is loose. I meant to look into that too.

 

Was the laptop on AC power? In that case, you'd be the source of the static charge. If not, you must have been sufficiently grounded for a charge generated by the laptop to jump to you. I've heard of laptops generating static charges but it's not a frequent thing.

No one here thinks you have a screw loose.

 

LOL!!

When I was getting shocked the laptop was plugged in, as usual. I never operate on battery. So yeah, then I guess I was the source, but I could have zapped the board, right?

And the laptop is running great guns... still.