Am I the only one with this strange forum behavior?

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Disciple, May 4, 2004.

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  1. Disciple

    Disciple Registered Member

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    OS = XP home w/all patches & updates
    Browser = MyIE2 & IE6
    Security & other running software = ZAP (beta on 1 machine and the latest release on another), AVG free, TDS-3, Process Guard, Port Explorer, and a few other utilities.

    The problem I am having is when I return to a boards message list after reading a thread, all unread messge subjects appear as read. i.e. the message title is no longer bold. :eek: It does not matter how I access a message, whether it is from the beginning clicking on the message subject or by clicking the First New Message icon. This behavior is not limited to one computer, but happens on both systems and is not limited to MyIE2 as it happens with IE6 as well.

    Anyway I just wanted to find out if anyone else is experiencing this odd and slightly annoying behavior. :(

    BTW - The DiamondCS TDS-3 private forum, that appears to be running on the same software does not exhibit this behavior.
     
  2. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Well, if you time-out (15 minutes inactive) or logout of the forum, then all messages that were unread will turn to read. But, if you are saying that it's literally every message you read... You go into SpywareBlaster forum where there are 6 unread messages. You immediately go and read the oldest, and 30 seconds later you leave that message jumping to the SpywareBlaster sub-forum index and the other 5 also show read. If that's happening, forum by forum, then that is not normal.

    Is that the description of what's happening or are there other factors? Is it all messages in all forum lists going to unread or just that one section? Is there an issue staying logged in on the forum? (Do you ever get messages telling you to login when you thought you were logged in?) If it is sub-forum by sub-forum, it almost sounds like somehow you are triggering the forum tool item Mark This Forum Read. In any case, it is not the way it's supposed to work.

    You may need to reset your login... meaning: hit the "Mark Forums Read" in the title bar, logout, delete any cookies related to wilderssecurity, close all browser sessions, empty cache, be sure wilderssecurity.com is trusted for cookies and scripting and is not being filtered at all by ZAP; then login cleanly and start fresh looking for the issue again.
     
  3. MikeBCda

    MikeBCda Registered Member

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    I get something very roughly similar, which I'm guessing is a quirk of the vB software.

    If I go into a forum where there's several messages unread and look at one or two of them then return to the "parent" sub-forum (or group, if it's easier to think of them that way), that forum will now indicate no new postings. But if I then go back into the forum, the topics I skipped are correctly showing unread new messages unless and until I either read them all or hit "Mark forum read".
     
  4. Disciple

    Disciple Registered Member

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    I don't think it's a time-out issue, but let me expand on what I am doing and what is happening. My primary forum is the Official DiamondCS Public Forums, with Port Explorer and Process Guard being the main focus. With MyIE2's tabbed browsing I have a DiamondCS Group that opens the TDS-3 private forum, and the above mentioned public forums all of which I am logged in on. On the Process Guard forum index say there are 6 message threads that are either completely new or have new messages. I click to either read a completely new message thread or click the icon to veiw the first new message in a thread, read the message(s) and then go back to the Process Guard forum index the other 5 are now marked read.

    I will give try restting my login and cookies and see what that does. Thanks for your help and suggestions.
     
  5. Gavin - DiamondCS

    Gavin - DiamondCS Former DCS Moderator

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    Our forum was recently updated to a full RELEASE build of VBulletin, 3.0.1. This forum is still running a RELEASE CANDIDATE 3.0.0 RC something. It might be a fix that is in the latest build ?
     
  6. Disciple

    Disciple Registered Member

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    Gavin thanks for the board software version numbers. That very well could be the case and the difference between 3.0.0 and 3.0.1. I know the ZoneAlarm User Forum had some problems one time with a software update.
     
  7. Disciple

    Disciple Registered Member

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    Just to follow up on this problem: It is still there, I view a new thread or new message to a thread and when I return to the message listing all of the other new messages or threads have been marked as read. Any chance of getting the forum software upgraded to the latest version, since I don't have this problem on the DiamondCS private forum for TDS-3?
     
  8. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Actually Gavin was wrong above, we aren't on a release candidate, we're on the real first production release of vBulletin 3. There are only some minor bug fixes moving from 3.0.0 to 3.0.1, and none of them are related to the problem you are describing. We may upgrade to 3.0.1, as a few of the fixes might be helpful to some other minor issues, but I'm not sure when we'd do it. I'd also expect to see other reports of this problem if it was that wide spread.
     
  9. Blackspear

    Blackspear Global Moderator

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    It happens to me as well, I just put up with it :rolleyes:

    Cheers :D
     
  10. Disciple

    Disciple Registered Member

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    At least I am not alone with this. ;)
     
  11. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Well, then it'd be good to find out all the specifics and the things in common between the configurations of the two of you. Since it isn't happening to hundreds of members, but is happening to the two of you, and probably some others I'm sure, if we can find a pattern then maybe something can be done about it.

    For example, I am also on XP Home, all patches and updates, IE6, ZAP and AVG free, and a few other utilities, (very similar to Disciple's configuration), and yet it isn't happening to me. However, I have ZAP's Privacy filtering disabled because I never liked how it holds an extra port open for filtering the data stream, and how it interferes with some HTTP 1.1 operations like page compression, which is enabled here by the way (aka. mod_gzip). If this were a global problem, then it would most likely effect everyone, so there has to be more to it than that.

    So, common versions of browsers involved. Exact settings regarding cookies, scripting and general browsing security. Other privacy and/or filtering software in use, including firewalls that filter or manage the http datastream. Any special system adjustments, like the XML routine that alters all cookies from perm to session. And especially any restrictions on session cookies thru any software.
     
  12. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    What is "inactive" as far as this forum software is concerned? I learned to put up with some of the quirks I see that seem to happen only to me :( but something that I really wish didn't happen and might be related to the issue here is that I come here today for the first time. There are 4 bolded threads in the NOD32 forum. I read the oldest first and I need to reply to it. The reply takes quite a bit of time as I have to find an email to quote and I also have the phone ring and the reply is rather lengthy. After I make the reply, I go back to the forum list and there are now two bolded threads but they are NOT the three threads that were bolded when I first came here and have not yet read! Those threads are now unbolded. The two that are bolded have been posted during the time I was composing and replying to the first thread I read when I came here today.

    This is very irritating. Am I correct in assuming that the software considers writing a reply to mean being inactive and thus if it takes 15 minutes (which is nothing if you get interrupted or have to check several sources as you write a lengthy, complicated reply) to make the reply, I have timed out even though to me I am on the forum being "active"? If so, then I think you should lengthen the time out to 30 minutes. This happens to me at least once every day here. Sometimes many times a day. I am not prone to one or two word replies or simplistic replies in most instances. A fifteen minute time out encourages one to not check spelling, to reply off the cuff, to make inaccurate replies because one does not want to take the time to double check perhaps their settings in their AV if the subject is their antivirus program, or to do a preview and read it carefully and correct it, etc.

    Just my 2 cents worth. :)

    Just in the time that it has taken me to write this (with two brief pauses) when I go back to the NOD32 forum, I suspect even those two new threads will now be unbolded because about 15 minutes has passed. Why is the time out set at 15 minutes anyhow? It has been drummed into me very strongly over at dslreports that I am to check and recheck and recheck again my posts before submitting, I am to correct spelling, think before I post, etc. so I find it difficult to act differently here so I can beat the 15 minute time out on every post. :)
     
  13. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Hi Mele,

    A side point first... The issue you are describing is a different one than the one described first in this thread, just so no one gets confused about that.

    Now, the 15 minute session timeout is both the default for vBulletin, and a very common setting for tracking session activity at many forums. In fact, our old YaBB SE had a 15 minute (900 second) session timeout, too, which was also the default for that forum software. But the difference was that YaBB SE had a very different 'read post' tracking system, so all that happened if you timed out was your name dropped off the active users list at the bottom of the forum index page.

    In case anyone didn't know that, the members listed at the bottom of the main index page are those that were active in the last 15 minutes and who did not stop by way of the logout button. That terminates session immediately.

    There are all kinds of impacts in adjusting the session timeout, not the least of which is potential performance concerns. The larger the board the less likely they'd lengthen that time out period.

    As far as what you've described about posts getting marked as "read" because you've timed out, that is exactly how it works. If you are on the board and see a set of unread thread markers, then you walk away and come back 16 minutes later and hit refresh, those will all show as read now. The only threads marked as unread will be those that had posts made after the moment of your last click (prior to walking away) and the time you the refresh button.

    To maintain session and to keep the unread thread markers intact, you must access something on the forum prior to 15 minutes of inactivity. The fact that you have a page from the forum sitting on your PC screen doesn't mean you are active here. That's all local to your PC - unless you hit "preview" to view what you've written so far. If you do that periodically, then you'll hit the server and keep your session alive. Or, if you have a second window (in the same browser) and click on some link here - the main index, a private message window, whatever - that too will keep your session alive.

    The vBulletin developers have had many requests to implement a better read thread tracking system. They almost put one in this version of vB, but had issues (performance based, I believe) so they pulled it out before release. They say they are working on one for a future version, which frankly I'll be glad to see myself.
     
  14. Denim

    Denim Registered Member

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    I dont know if this is the right place to post this or not, And Im hope that Im stepping on "toes " here . But Ive been having a Similar Problem too. But with Login, Ive got my browser set to accept cookies , And I keep the Remember me box checked and I dont log out when I leave. ( to lazy I guess lol :D )
    But when I return, the Forum dont Remember me Like the checked box indicates for it to do, and When I do go to put in my User Name and Password it Tells me that Im either using the Wrong name or password, and I have to reapply for a new password every time I visit. Which is irritating. Now I want to know why I have to do this, as well as I have seen several others to having the Same Problem .
    Im running the IE6 browser with cookies enabled. And dont have no other probs at other sites remembering me or my passwords. Unless I just ran Spybot :oops: Am I doing something wrong here ? Or am I booing somewhere lol. o_O As I only run Spybot S&D like Once a week or so. NOT everday. (like on Sundays , So On mondays, I can understand why I aint remembered here or nowhere else.lol) But like when I come here on say Tues. or Thurs. for instance . I have to reapply for a new password, and I dont even log out and keep the Remember me box checked . o_O Is there something else I should be doing ?
    And Yes I do empty my Temp file Cache and history everday too.
    Thanks a bunch in advance for any help,
    :) Denim :)

    P.S. I wonder if my memeory is Slipping , Oopths my Puter memeory is going bad somewhere ? :doubt: I know that mine has done slipped :D a LONG time ago. AKA CRS Desiease .
    Paul or Low Water Mark Please feel free to move this if it isnt in the right spot.
     
  15. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    I'm sorry to say I have no idea what the problem could be. Your password is not being changed here on the server side, so somehow it is being lost or altered on your PC. Perhaps something is corrupting the stored credentials in the cookies on your system. Also, when you go to manually re-enter the last password that worked previously, but doesn't on the next visit, perhaps IE 'auto-complete' is interfering with the clean entry of the password. Maybe it has some much earlier version of your password stuck in it and it keeps auto-entering that one when you try to type it in directly. If auto-complete is enabled, try disabling it and clearing any stored information. Other than that checking and rechecking client PC settings and the actual username and password being entered, I have no other ideas.
     
  16. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    I updated spybotS&D as well this weekend and even though i only looked at it without telling it to do anything, i had to login as well in the forums, cookies gone automatically so i'll have to look at the spybot what it's doing automatically without my confirmation or setting it to do so.
    I remember i looked at the otions and settings but had no time to actually set things so closed it, but indeed cookies were gone without any warning.
    It should at least open a thing with some options and choices which one(s) we want to keep. I really hate this kind of spybot automation!
    What if a cookie is my proof of registration somewhere? imagine all the trouble we can run into with this! Even ZoneAlarm with the cookies and caches cleansing lets you the choice for some settings in that field.

    At least change your password for one you can remember and type in without the need for asking a new one; type it somewhere, email yourself the new password, anything, so you can retype it on the next login.
     
  17. Denim

    Denim Registered Member

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    Good Morning Jooske,
    Btw your Doing A great Job here :)
    But I dont know why that Spybot S&D is doing that,either, It is just so Aggervating too o_O . I thought that it was just me or something, or that I was having a chip going bad on my system or something. But I am glad that Im not alone in this. And thanks once again for your Fast Response as always !! :D ;)

    I will run over to the spybot forums at Net and post a question there, Now that My brain decided to work here, and Just thought of that , DUH. lol . And Will post back with the link when I get a Reply.
    But You are right Jooske, Cookies are sometimes the Only Proof that you have when you register something on line.

    Keep up the Great Work !!
    :) Denim :)

    BTW Low Water Mark , the Only time that I loose my cookies for here , is After I run Spybot S&D. Like if I run it on Sunday, then Come here on Monday , I have to reapply for a new password. But the Rest of the week it does just fine . I to Like Jooske, Just Update and Run Spybot S&D , without looking at anything , Because with this New version of SS&D, Im not exactly for sure yet how to single out which Cookies to tell it to keep and which ones I want gone, Like I did with the old version (1.2) yet. As everything on it is all different now , and they have included something new on there to called Teatimer. o_O
    But will run over there now to Net and Post a question In the spybot forum over there , on Why it is doing it and How to single which cookies to tell it NOT to eat (like the ones for this forum :D )
    :) Denim :)
     
  18. dvk01

    dvk01 Global Moderator

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    I've seen this reported elsewhere with Zonealarm privacy blocking options being the cause
     
  19. Denim

    Denim Registered Member

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    Jooske and All ,
    I just posted a Question over at the Spybot Forums about this matter, (Why spybot is Eating all our cookies (deleting them ) And ask How to Set up the new "cookie jar" , ( how to separate the good ones from the bad ones or the ones we wanted to keep ) .
    As Soon as I get a Reply to my Question , I will post back here with a Link to the page in the forum where I posted. I hope that this will help yall out .
    Your Buddy Always ,
    :) Denim :)
     
  20. Denim

    Denim Registered Member

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    Jooske and All,

    As I promised , here is what you can do , to keep spybot ,from deleting all your Cookies posted Here http://forums.net-integration.net/index.php?showtopic=18684&st=0&

    Mikey over there gave me a Fast Simple in "English " explanation on how it is done. and it is Posted there at the above link.
    I hope this helps you Out Miss Jooske :) And Others :)

    Your Buddy Always,
    :) Denim :)

    I Just did as Mikey Suggested over there in the Spybot S&D Forums and HOORAY!!!!! It didnt Eat my Good (oreos) cookies this time :D :D !!! YEAH . The solution for the cookie problem is stated in the above link in this post. Hope this helps,
    :) Denim :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2004
  21. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Thanks a lot for this; i also like the link posted there to the cookie control page
    http://www.voiceofthepublic.com/SSD/cookiescp.html


    The fact with my SBS&D is that i only had it updated and only clicked the settings to look at the possibilities, without having it doing anything at all!
    So this is so strange that it did delete all the cookies without even pressing any scan or fis at all!
     
  22. Denim

    Denim Registered Member

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    You are Most Welcome Miss Jooske!! ;) And that Im so glad that I could help you out . :)

    And that is a great link that you posted, I will book mark that one as Well. Because I like you am Always willing to learn something new Especially when it comes to Internet Safety or New softwares :)
    Your Buddy always,
    :) Denim :)

    Oh the Analog X site. Yes that too is a great site too. That is where I got my POW!! Pop up ad stopper at almost 3 years ago, and to this day even with all the Windows updates And Even on my Xp Machines It has done me nothing But Justice !!! (Great that is !!! :) ) And it does perform Flawlessly with all versions of windows and Even on Macs to. From what ppl has told me . And the best part of it that it is Free. And a Very small Download.
    But for a Small piece of Software , it has a BIG KICK to it .And it does what it is suppose to do. And the User inter face is easy to navigate too. and the Instructions are in the read me files.
    As the webmaster at analog X , the one that wrote the program dont like help manuals lol. But Grab a copy of that too Jooske and take if for a spin if you want to. It is free. And I think you will like it. Just remember that you have to turn it on manually when you log on to the net is the only thing. :)
    P.M me if you want to. Or need further help I dont mind helping out when I can , Or Learning From wherever I can :)
    Your Buddy Always,
    :) Denim :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2004
  23. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    The link came from the forum you posted yourself :)
    But i really like that instruction!

    AnalogX tools are very well-known in this forum too, very nice things! Also Karen Powertools are very much appreciated. And for looking at files on our systems we love Faber Toys www.faberbox.com and of course the Sysinternals tools -- just to be a bit complete besides all you already have.
     
  24. Denim

    Denim Registered Member

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    Ok Jooske, Thanks.
    Good Morning to you and I hope that you are doing ok today. :)
    Btw isnt that program geered more toward Programmers, and real advanced users, instead of the average user like I am. ?
    :) Denim :)
     
  25. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    I'm a simple user too, but getting insights with such tools. Very handy to see at once file versions, in case of problems it helped in reporting to support if files were missing or not loaded and this locate a possible error, etc etc.
    Karen's powertools: see if this forum really is this forum and not spoofed (tool with a difficult name i always forget), lots of those real handy things and helpers. She has a cookie control tool too, telling what the cookie is for to make choices for delete or keep easier. (Or was that AnalogX ? -- both are handy in their way)
    Since the tools add to our knowledge and awareness, growth comes with them :ninja:
     
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