Alternative to True Image (nervous nellie)

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by bellgamin, Jul 18, 2006.

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  1. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Huupi

    I've had no issues imaging the living system. On of the things I've been doing with the desktop version is running a scheduled job that takes 15 minute incrementals thru out the business day. They run on average in 3-10 seconds, and you don't even know they are running. I let this run for 3 days and had 95 incrementals.

    I was able to pick any point in time during the day and restore to that point. Restores obviously are a bit slower, since the program has to chew thru all the incrementals. One other thing I tested is collapsing the original full image and the incrmentals into one final image. Verified and restored fine. However with 95 increments it took slightly over an hour to collapse them so clearly in that case a new image would have been more efficient. But it worked.

    The ability to capture the system that frequently is just an extra bit of insurance that should something go wrong during the day, I can either restore, or retrieve a file from a point in time.

    Pete

    PS. One thing I also tested was having an on going program like an active game running while the incremental was taken. No problem it just captured the state that the file on the disk was in and picked up from there on restore.
     
  2. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    I see. I wonder what the hold up might be on this release? Probably ironing out final bugs because from what i understand, by now it should be in full bloom beta testings.

    I'm already impressed enough i think at this point with Peter2150's & other's latest findings and satisfied results. Universal Restore ( a favorite & curiosity of mine), is already been fully implimented in v.3 as i understand. The incrementals merging feature should prove beneficial also irregardless of the time consumption since it appears (according to Peter2150), SP combines them safely & completely and restores the whole lot fine.

    I have no interest at this point of either trial or evalu. models. I trust the results i seen posted here enough to believe V.3 might just finally prove to be another super-app, at least i'm banking on it. I'll take my chances with a full purchase and go from there. I really don't think i'll be disappointed. It's really a confidence booster for me to see a new Imaging program hit this scene with so much anticipation for great results & SPEED!! (incrementals aside LoL)
     
  3. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    HI Guys

    The only thing I know for sure, is that when they do release it they want it right. I am sure everyone would agree, that is important. I also can't wait.

    Pete
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    The one thing I didn't mention is when I did the collapse test I had 95 incrementals. Clearly a new image would be faster. What was really important was being able to capture an incremental every 15 minutes, with no system impact and know I could always either restore to one, or mount one an get a file. That is a big deal to me. (and I never used scheduling:D )

    Pete
     
  5. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    That's Xtremely important and i'm also glad to see that it will support such features as this. I'm starting to get very anxious myself because something tells me this is going to prove to become a very reliable imaging solution unlike any others. I am so sick and tired of the failures i have experienced in the past with Imaging Apps. Some were no less likely of my own making for not fully understanding the workings/settings required but i also seen where i done everything to the letter of instructions only to suffer letdowns, not a lot of them, but just one is one too many IMO. System/Data Recovery shouldn't be something that takes you by surprise when it works, it should PROVE to work reliably each and every time save maybe some application or hardware issue which could hamper effective recovery, but even those matters can be adequately addressed from what i've read so far.

    I also have a Power Video Nvidia Card btw but i pulled it before my last re-installs but i like to get it back in action again. I trust that issue with the PE Recovery Environment has also been addressed in V.3 when released.
     
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I didn't have any issues with graphic's card drivers. The problem with nvidia disk drivers is I couldn't see my disks in the recovery environment. That is what is fixed.
     
  7. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    I see. My bad for not looking closer. I always been accustomed to Nvidia as to do with Video enhancement but not disk driver's. Good to know though that your particular issue was addressed. Sometimes we discover things completely by accident and your a real champ for us to have passed that concern over to them for resolution. Also many thanks for your testings with SP, it's because of results like yours and others that has captured my complete interest in the v.3 release.
     
  8. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Nvidia disk drivers can be a nightmare. Depending on your motherboard, you could have a 400,500 or 600 series chipset. One of my machines is 500 series and one 600. There are at least 6 versions of the nvidia drivers. Same files different version. The challenge is to find a set that works with all of them. UGH.
     
  9. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    For any reason SP does't work on my system,Storagecraft seems to be at loss at the time i send the logs,their advice : "for the moment use recovery enviroment,it always work, and we will look into that " Until now i have to hear something from them.
    But to my great relief recovery enviroment works flawless and that after all the hassle with ghost and acronis like mouse not working and drives not recognised etc.For the moment i accept the shortcomings, maybe upcoming SP3 solves this little annoying thingy.
     
  10. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    That's definitely enough of that - view our TOS in case the proper behavior here at Wilders escapes you.
     
  11. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    i will try version 3 of shadow protect desktop as well.
    i know im happy with paragon but it is slow at imaging.
    i could make more images with shadow protect desktop.
    i dont have to buy it i just need to trial it first to see if its worth buying.
    lodore
     
  12. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    One post debating staff decisions removed - any issue with moderator actions may be taken up in private with Admin. For the record - the age of a post does not negate the content.
     
  13. gderreck

    gderreck Registered Member

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    This thread is cold, but I want to give some props to grnxnm. I have not experienced a developer spending as much time initiating and responding to forum users in the past. Furthermore, the honesty (within reason respecting company secrets,etc) and detail are rarely seen. Thank you. I find it interesting, but not surprising, that the SOHO and end user are a small, non-profitable end of the business. I can see where the cost/benefit of many licenses/many users would be a burden to the company. However, you seem to have made several changes to your product that would make it more appealing to the above users, and it may now be seen as a viable alternative to Ghost and True Image. I am not speaking of the underlying effectiveness of the product, but the ease of use and ability to copy to removable media; put you squarely into the single user market. This may be the best time for you to get "out there" with the product. Marketing can be expensive, but online and/or print publications such as pc mag, cnet, smartcomputing, cpu, reach a lot of people. With the universal restore feature, being able to migrate Vista to a more powerful machine would be worth the price of the product alone.

    You guys don't need us to tell you how to run your business, but perhaps a bit of effort getting your message out now would probably put a fair dent into the SOHO/end user market for this type of product. I seem to remember a company called Powequest that not only produced excellent product, but practically owned the partition/imaging market for the end user. I also seem to remember that it was gobbled up by Symantec, which destroyed what was, at the time, the best incremental imaging product available....v2i protector. So with a more feature complete and user friendly product, perhaps it is time to re-emerge as the v2i of the 21st century!

    I digress. You had asked about new features for the product.

    -the small office and end user hardware market is moving towards laptops, and with the advent of fully upgradable products from people such as Clevo and Asus; I think the move will become a rush. I don't think it will be long before a motherboard form factor is produced and then bye bye to having to purchase a new machine to upgrade. For many laptop users, always-on is not an option. Perhaps the scheduling function needs event driven quick incremental backups: log off, log on, etc. Perhaps even a feature where one could click on install within shadowprotect, have the program perform an icremental, open an explorer window to start an install, and then do another (optional) incremental after the install. Perhaps the latter is a bit esoteric (no I haven't been smoking anything strange), but you get my drift.

    -I can't understand why nobody in the business has added a feature where one could tie a comment to a particular backup (installed messenger, edited registry, etc). This would make it so much easier to go back to a point in time without having to remember (doubtful), make a manual note (also doubtful) or set up a .LOG text file (as I do currently in TI and set it to run after the backup). This obviously wouldn't work for unattended scheduled backups, but I'm guessing that version 3 will have the ability to do an on-demand quick incremental within the framwork of a scheduled job. This would be invaluable for installing an operating system, updating drivers, adding apps, etc. For the majority of users, who probably don't change their configuration; this feature would be great for example: before they log on to a public hotspot, surf in dangerous territory, download questionable files, etc. Of course, this begs the comment, "users should be careful". That is true. But if all users were always careful about everything, the market for security and backup software would be very small.

    Thanks again for your time and expertise; and keep up the good work!
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi gderreck

    Interesting post. On the Desktop edition, I suspect the problem isn't marketing, but support. An example. If Storagecraft, sells 10 subscriptions to the IT Edition, that is $35000/per year revenue, to 10 corporate people who are knowledgeable users. They could probably cover a much larger number then these 10 with one support person, and the annual revenue pays for it. On the other hand the Desktop version is only $70 with a reduced renewal, which many people probably won't bother with. And to get that means to get $35000 and maintain that level of annual of revenue, you start with 500 people and it starts to increase. Also you are dealing with less experienced people, so the difference is support requirements is significantly larger. So ironiclly a successful marketing campagin which in itself costs, would sort of compound the problem.

    It's tough finding a good mix. Same thing with adding new and esoteric features. That would bloat the product, and I for one, wouldn't want them. Thats the problem.

    Pete
     
  15. grnxnm

    grnxnm Registered Member

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    @gderreck

    Gee whiz, thanks, I'm glad you found those posts to be useful. I've heard your sentiments about focusing more on the SOHO/end-user market before, but it's not my call. I write code. I don't market or sell the stuff. I do pitch in a lot on the support end though and I can tell you that home/end-users are a real pain to support. Some of them have legitimate issues but a large percentage of them call in because they don't understand something about their computer or OS (their call has nothing to do with ShadowProtect really).

    Thanks for the feature suggestions. We've discussed several of those. Images can in fact have comments tied to them - it has been so since the first release of ShadowProtect.
     
  16. gderreck

    gderreck Registered Member

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    :doubt: I agree with both of you. Support services that would actually support (and not just seem to support) would be expensive. Perhaps a dedicated Wilders forum with paid support people would be a good middle ground. Add $5 to the cost of a single license. I realize that price points matter in the end user market, but a lot of folks (small offices, single travellers, etc), will pay for something that works as promised and doesn't require a degree in NanoMolecularDifferentialQuantology. With respect to adding comments, I am speaking of adding a different comment to each incremental created, that can be viewed and associated with a given archive. Not a common comment that would appear in each of the backups associated with a job. Are you saying that that feature exists? If so, I have found Backup Nirvana. You've been threatening to release version 3. I use Vista. When?

    Thanks again
     
  17. grnxnm

    grnxnm Registered Member

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    Ah, I understand you now. No, in fact when the backup job is running it will automatically assign the same comment to each image in the chain (the comment you assigned when you created the job). I see your point though about wanting to assign your own comment if you provoke the job to make an incremental on demand. Good idea!

    Version 3 (with Vista support and a host of other features) is basically done. We've been working on another product which augments v.3's functionality, and that's really the cause for the holdup. It's all pretty much done. I personally have only two tasks on my plate and neither of them is very hard so I expect to finish my part within the next couple of days and I believe the rest of the team is in a similar state. We've been having a private alpha/beta with select partners which has been very successful. I'll keep you posted if/when a public beta is released.
     
  18. Thorz

    Thorz Registered Member

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    I like to thank everybody that has contributed to this amazing thread, specially grnxnm for his unbelievable participation.
    I have been waiting very exited since january for version 3 of SP, but we are already in august and no more news have come since june in this front :(
     
  19. MerleOne

    MerleOne Registered Member

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    Hi all,
    Anyone tried the recently released O&O imaging software, version 2 ? It seems to have features similar to all those imaging software, like full and incremental backups. Not Differential though.
     
  20. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    No, I trialed quite a few, but not O&O and it's too late now, because I'm married with "ShadowProtect Desktop v2"
    ShadowProtect was the fastest, very reliable and without show.
     
  21. grnxnm

    grnxnm Registered Member

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    I believe the official release date for ShadowProtect Desktop/Server Editions 3.0 is set for August 21 2007.
     
  22. HAN

    HAN Registered Member

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    Great news!!!!!!! :D
     
  23. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    Is there any reason to upgrade ?
     
  24. Thorz

    Thorz Registered Member

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    Thanks a lot for your answer.
    That news are indeed wonderful!
    I would like to ask: When was SP v 2.0 desktop released?
     
  25. HAN

    HAN Registered Member

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    Two things are supposed to be in version 3 that interest me. One I'll use a fair amount and one is just a curiosity. I'll use the new GUI-based image verify from time to time and the Hardware Independent Restore feature looks interesting (even if I won't be using it much (if ever!)) Add the fact that version 3 should work with a much wider selection of PCs (better compatility.) (Not been an issue for me currently...)
     
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