AI Roboform 7.1.0 - Final

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by AvinashR, Dec 7, 2010.

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  1. b2carey_siber

    b2carey_siber Registered Member

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    RoboForm is an extremely secure program. Your data itself is encrypted with your master password. You can store that data just on your PC or you can choose our optional Everywhere service. If you choose to sync with Everywhere then the transmission of data is secure as well as the account access is secure.

    Our technology powers software for some of the largest companies in the world. In order for them to use our technology it had to be tested by third-party security companies. Our software has been tested externally by at least three different vendors that I know of.

    As for whether we can view your data...the answer is definitely NO. In fact, if you lose or forget your master password there is absolutely no way to recover it. This is an inconvenience for some users, but it is a necessary security measure that we take.
     
  2. SirDracula

    SirDracula Registered Member

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    A little late for this. Bottom line is that RF6 was sold as "Free Upgrades" at least according to this version of your web site:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20080822215550/www.roboform.com/why-pro.html

    http://i.min.us/icelsk.jpg

    There is no mention of minor vs major upgrades on your site.

    I checked the license file installed with RF6 and there is no mention of upgrades at all, minor or major.

    There are others that agree and you made many users unhappy:

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-Not-To-Change-A-Licensing-Model-171188.shtml

    The right thing for you to do would be to grandfather in all previous RF6 users, not try to extort more money.

    If we cannot trust you that you will honor the terms of the license we bought, how can we trust you with our passwords? Your business model is based on TRUST and this is exactly what you lost right now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
  3. SirDracula

    SirDracula Registered Member

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    When you check for updates or after an upgrade, RF contacts your servers and submits a request that has a query parameter with a long encoded string. What's in that string? Why not just leave it clear text and send it over a SSL connection so that the user knows exactly what's submitted? For all I know a copy of my decrypted passwords is submitted to your servers. How can we trust you if you are not transparent?
     
  4. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    I don't feel like tearing you up point by point. It is sufficient to say that I was forced to upgrade. WHY?

    Not because of the so called, "soft-launched RoboForm 7". This is complete BS and marketing ploy.

    It is because there was no add-on (plug-in) for Firefox 4. I upgraded to RoboForm 7, while it was still in beta, but had the add-on (plug-in) for Firefox 4. Where as, the stable paid version RoboForm 6 didn't have the add-on (plug-in) for Firefox 4.

    Here is a question for you. Let us see if you can honestly answer it without beating around the bush.

    Are you going to provide plug-ins for all the browsers for RoboForm 6 now and in future?

    Without the browsers plug-ins RoboForm 6 is useless!

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  5. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

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    I have to admire your ~ Snipped as per TOS ~ by trying to placate older customers that have in essence been lied to ,and basically kicked in the teeth by siber systems.Im an older (and now former) customer of yours ,that have purchased 4 licences (all 6 pro).I expected free upgrade to 7 .If you couldnt honour free upgrades to older customers ,then you should have said so and explained why you originally said we could get free upgrades but now we cant.That said you made another error.You ignored or basically fobbed off those that emailed customer support about the upgrade by quoting your upgrade prices but not explaing why you wont honour older customers who purchased 6 on the premise of free upgrades.The ironic thing about this whole sorry episode ,is that if you had come clean about things and given plenty of warning ,that you could no longer afford to honour the free upgrades to older customers ,and if you had offered upgrades to 7 pro at $9.95 (THE SAME PRICE AS EVERYWHERE)then you might have had a little more undersdtanding ,and possibly got away with it.As it is you have lost much of the credibility that you once had.Roboform is a great but it would take a lot to get me back using it ,and recommending it ....not because of the product ,but because of the way you do buisness.
    ellison
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2011
  6. MBarker

    MBarker Registered Member

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    If you purchased after September 1st, 2010, we will upgrade you to Version 7 at no cost. Please follow this link to do so: https://secure.roboform.com/php/pums/pums_usrlogfrm_upgrade.php. Apologies for any inconvenience or confusion.

    Kindest regards,

    Melissa Barker
    Siber Systems
     
  7. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

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    I think sibersystems FAQ has already answered that
    .................................
    Why do I have to pay for RoboForm 7?

    RoboForm 7 is better than RoboForm 6:
    * New features: Synchronization, Applications, Better User Interface
    * New browsers supported: Chrome, Safari, Firefox 4.
    * New operating systems supported: Mac OS, Linux.
    * New mobile devices: iPhone, iPad (available now), Android (coming soon).
    .................................
    Unless its another lack of communication by siber systems ,it seems pretty obvious based on the above that being able to use roboform with firefox 4 is one of 7s selling points.
    ellison
     
  8. MBarker

    MBarker Registered Member

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    In regards to your concern for Version 8, with the RoboForm Everywhere yearly subscription you will pay the same yearly fee when we eventually come out with Version 8 (which would be many years from now). We created this new licensing agreement based on consumer feedback over the last 10 years. Many users wanted the ability to purchase one license that would provide them with an infinite number installs, rather than one license per computer.

    Kindest regards,

    Melissa Barker
    Siber Systems
     
  9. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

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    Melissa my love...
    Everybody here is already aware of the upgrade policy.Nothing has changed ,and there isnt any confusion ,other than why purchasers of roboform 6 who bought it on the premise of free upgrades , were denied that option and given no notice.
    ellison
     
  10. MBarker

    MBarker Registered Member

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    If you do not want to continue to use RoboForm Everywhere in a year's time, you have the option purchase RoboForm Desktop, which is a one time fee.

    Kindest regards,

    Melissa Barker
    Siber Systems
     
  11. SirDracula

    SirDracula Registered Member

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    Why even post this? We've heard this many times. This is the standard reply you get when you file a support ticket and ask questions. This proves one more time that the point is completely missed by Siber, you do not even read the questions in the support tickets, let alone answer them. Boilerplate answers, that's all I've been getting.

    I also tried calling, there used to be a toll-free 800 number on the site, but it was removed. I called the other 703 number for 3 days, I either got a busy tone or voicemail. I was never offered the choice to wait on the line for the next support person. All 3 days I left a voicemail asking for someone to call me back. I got no call.

    Unfortunately, you have a major trust issue at this point. The user base from RF6 is what made your company what it is today. Being in the password business is tough because it requires trust. The community praised and trusted RF but you decided to alienate your user base. The same community can also kill your business, because the users are unhappy right now and their voices are being heard through forums, blogs, Twitter, Facebook etc.

    Many years ago you used to be the leader, you had the best product, but today there is competition and there are other viable choices. And they make it very easy to import from Roboform, sometimes they have extra features, in many cases they are cheaper than RF and even FREE. Browsers are only getting better, they are starting to offer password syncing for free. You no longer have a unique product.

    This was not the time for you to upset your installed user base. You should have offered free upgrades to the RF6 users, explain the improvements and ask for a voluntary donation, I'm sure many users would have been more than happy to support you. Then for the same user base you should have offered a free year of Roboform Everywhere/Online and a guaranteed discounted subscription model going forward. Then slowly you stop developing the desktop version of RF and eventually freeze it. The new features all go into the new Everywhere product. This is how you move your user base to a subscription based model, not by one day offering an upgrade and surprise after the install you find out you are in "trial mode", the license is revoked, no warning during the install, nothing. When you try to find out what it is all about as the upgrades were supposed to be FREE, you're sent upgrade pricing. This is extortion, many users panicked and paid for the upgrade out of fear of losing access to their passwords. You should offer them a refund.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
  12. MBarker

    MBarker Registered Member

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    As for security, you need not be worried:

    RoboForm is an extremely secure program. Your data itself is encrypted with your master password. You can store that data just on your PC or you can choose our optional Everywhere service. If you choose to sync with Everywhere then the transmission of data is secure as well as the account access is secure.

    Your RoboForm Data Files are stored on our RoboForm Everywhere servers and are encrypted (by AES) with your Master Password as the key. Since your Master Password is not stored on our servers, absolutely nobody, including Siber Systems, can access your passwords or other RoboForm data.

    Our technology powers software for some of the largest companies in the world. In order for them to use our technology it had to be tested by third-party security companies. Our software has been tested externally by at least three different vendors that I know of.

    As for whether we can view your data...the answer is definitely NO. In fact, if you lose or forget your master password there is absolutely no way to recover it. This is an inconvenience for some users, but it is a necessary security measure that we take.

    Kindest regards,

    Melissa Barker
    Siber Systems
     
  13. SirDracula

    SirDracula Registered Member

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    When you check for updates or after an upgrade, RF contacts your servers and submits a request that has a query parameter with a long encoded string. What's in that string? Why not just leave it clear text and send it over a SSL connection so that the user knows exactly what's submitted? For all I know a copy of my decrypted passwords is submitted to your servers. How can we trust you if you are not transparent?
     
  14. MBarker

    MBarker Registered Member

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    I understand what you are saying - it just appeared that a user who had purchased after Sept. 1st was confused regarding the policy.

    Kindest regards,

    Melissa Barker
    Siber Systems
     
  15. MBarker

    MBarker Registered Member

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    I have looked at our standard update page and standard activate page and I do not see a long query string being sent over either one. What page exactly are you referring to and how did you get to that page?

    Kindest regards,

    Melissa Barker
    Siber Systems
     
  16. MBarker

    MBarker Registered Member

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    It seemed as though one of the users was confused about our policy, which is why I jumped in to explain the upgrade policy. We do read the questions submitted and sometimes need a clarification by the user to answer the question appropriately.

    We recently had a high volume of tickets due to Version 7. We are currently trying to respond to tickets and voice-mails as quickly as possible, however, we did fall behind on our response time. If you have not received a response already, you should shortly.

    Kindest regards,

    Melissa Barker
    Siber Systems
     
  17. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Ms. Barker,

    As you paying customer (2 licenses of RoboForm 6 and 2 licenses of RoboForm 7), can you give me the courtesy and reply to my above post #129.

    Many thanks!

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  18. SirDracula

    SirDracula Registered Member

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    This one:
    Code:
    http://www.roboform.com/test-pass.html?aaa=...........
    
    I obviously didn't post the string after "aaa=" because I have no idea what's in it, but it's around 200 characters long. Would you care to enlighten us, please?
     
  19. SirDracula

    SirDracula Registered Member

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    Unless your response will offer a FREE upgrade to ALL v6 users, you can save the trouble of replying. Free upgrades on a case by case basis are not an option at this point. I recommended RF to friends and family and they do not feel like spending the time to write support tickets and call you and beg for upgrades they are entitled to.
     
  20. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

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    Why quote what b2carey_siber has already said in post 126 of this thread and pretend that its your response?.Is it just siber systems way of pretending to be interested in peoples comments here?.If you and your colleagues were really interested ,then you would actually do something for disgruntled 6 users rather than reading a damage limitation script.
    ellison
     
  21. SirDracula

    SirDracula Registered Member

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    Their strategy is to bury the complaints somewhere in the middle of the thread. But I will repeat the two concerns here, to keep them alive:

     
  22. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    SirDracula:

    THANK YOU for post #136 and articulating exactly how I feel about this whole fiasco - it reflects how my thoughts have evolved since my posts 24 & 26 and I've observed Siber's participation in the thread at such a superficial level and their evasion of impeccability with their word to those who have been impeccably loyal to them.

    Time's wasting Siber, and probably a significant part of your pre-existing customers are evaluating the alternatives to being given the bait and switch or simply being forced to put up or shut up.
     
  23. Ravenslair

    Ravenslair Registered Member

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    Found this post a few days ago and opened my own ticket with Siber Systems.

    I just submitted a ticket with Siber Systems regarding this whole fiasco. Regarding RoboForm Everywhere, I was told the following:

    "RF Evereywhere license includes everything
    It includes upgrade to version 7 for both RF and RF2Go
    License will do the following:
    Allow installation on multiple PCs,flash drives
    Allow online synchronization between RFs and Android,IPhone,IPad
    Allow usage on Mac"

    As a point of reference, I have a license for RFv6 and RF2GOv6 and signed up for RF Online when it was first offered. It sounds like upgrading to Everywhere gets you licenses for the other items. I have an email in to verify that. I was thinking I was going to be out for each product, which was going to force me to LinkPass for sure.

    Like all of you, I was an early purchaser of RoboForm when the "Free Upgrades" was offered. We all know what that meant back then. I may have to bite the bullet and pay the $9.95 to get my version upgraded and the $19.95 per year thereafter. I will keep you posted on what the response is.
     
  24. SirDracula

    SirDracula Registered Member

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    LastPass is FREE if you don't need the Pro features. Roboform claims that the 2nd year will cost $19.95, but based on our recent experience they may hold your passwords hostage and scare you into paying $99.95

    LastPass should be able to capitalize on this major fiasco and grab a bunch of customers from RF.
     
  25. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

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    Im not so sure.There are many people like myself who are not interested in passwords stored in the cloud but prefer a simple local password solution like the pro version of roboform.The only reason sibersystems have created thr cloud version is to make profit annually.Im sure that they will at some point discontinue the pro version for this reason.I think gambling that people will pay anually for a password filler is a BIG mistake.
    ellison
     
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