I believed VB (= VirusBulletin) tests for a long time, until I replied to a post "Snakeoil or not" discussion area. It seems to be that VB doesn't understand Statistical Process Control at all. That means if you want to have a certain (=same) risk in test results all the time (= risk to be infected with a virus), you must increase the in the Wild viruses amount all the time, so far the total amount of viruses is increasing so rapidly as it does nowadays. The bad thing is that, AV-test.org seems to make the same mistake, the only good thing is that they take a little bit larger in the Zoo test, what VB does in so called Macro, Polymorphic and Standard tests. The amount of VB:s viruses still remains about the same. It's like we are sitting on a virus mountain which grows higher and higher until we can't breath any more! In the VB:s in the Wild tests the amount of viruses to be tested has been the same during last 4 years, when home PC user's amount has multiplied. They have lowered the standards all that time and maybe from the beginning. If you were building ships with those new standards, they will sink all. The whole my trust to those results made by the independent organisations have totally collapsed. The last thing was that VB couldn't even count percents in their August 2002 test reports. Or was it number of misses, who cares, when there are so many mistakes, or is it pure lottery or entertainment? The test organisations don't understand the phrase "system collapse", so far there are 100% proof results, as there are now. I am thinking all the time that there is something to hide? Or is the answer so obvious, that the AV-producers don't want to be tested so that everyone collapses, who would buy their products anymore? None seems to be interested in the limits what different products have anymore! When we are making steel, the specifications are well known, but within av-products, more and more unknown. "The truth is out there, but it hurts" Regards, Firefighter!