About Countermail.

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by Taliscicero, Dec 28, 2013.

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  1. Fawkesguy

    Fawkesguy Registered Member

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    Taliscicero started a thread complaining that Countermail is too expensive, then went on to suggest that perhaps it appeals to a criminal element. He also raised some concerns about how they have implemented their security setup. Whether or not their service is expensive is of course purely subjective. Suggesting that Countermail's level of security should only be needed by those engaging in potentially illegal activity is laughable, considering we're having this conversation on Wilders.

    I think Countermail's replies have been direct, to the point, and are meant to clarify how and why they do what they do. I admire how directly they addressed Taliscicero's assertions. Sure, he's free to express his opinions. Countermail is free to make their statements as well, and they have. They don't need to sugarcoat anything for anybody.

    If you don't want to use their service because they aren't nice enough, fine. Their replies in this thread make me respect them as a company even more.
     
  2. RollingThunder

    RollingThunder Registered Member

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    Agreed that the argument of Countermail appealing to the criminal element is absurd. Countermail is a tool the same way TOR is a tool. You don't destroy something just because it can be used securely for nefarious reasons. In our current environment we need as much security as possible on the internet. Those who would argue otherwise do not deserve privacy or anonymity.

    @Fawkes. Amongst other hats I have managed customer service for many years. Confrontational aggression may work for some. It does, however, tend to damage the reputation of a company. I am spending time on this topic because I consider the CM product to be a good one. In that light I hope CM reads this and re-considers their approach to handling customer service issues. Enough said.


     
  3. Fawkesguy

    Fawkesguy Registered Member

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    I hear what you're saying, but CM's market is very tiny, with customers concerned primarily about privacy. CM's reputation is based on performance, not on how they respond to a (in my opinion) flawed attack/rant regarding their service from a random person on a discussion forum. Bad customer service is bad, but I'm just not seeing that here. CM countered the OP's assertions point by point over several posts to clarify who they are and how they work. I think they did a great job.
     
  4. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Look, Simon is obviously a very direct person. I respect that.

    Otherwise, what Fawkesguy said :)
     
  5. Taliscicero

    Taliscicero Registered Member

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    Look, criminals use these services its simple as that. They want privacy for the same reason other people want privacy just with more nefarious reasons, granted for sure there are also non-malicious users but please don't assume everyone is just a privacy advocate or just a fine upstanding person looking out for their freedoms. I am not talking about that, I am saying for my threat model a simpler option for a customer as myself would be appreciated, it does not mean everyone has to use it, just giving a user the option to would help or even add compatibility to the product. Example one would be BlackBerry devices that do not have a client that works with Counter-mail and cannot use Java, if your on BlackBerry well who cares about you? I wanted to bring up issues as a suggestion of what i wanted to change for the better or ad compatibility to the product for end users and ended up getting "told" how I did not know what i was talking about which is pretty insulting since I spend most of my days as a researcher into these types of products. Fawkes, you use the Fawkes mask in your avatar and your name suggests empirically to me the type of advocate you are and this is not a bad thing, just don't take any mention of criminal activity on privacy service as a personal attack against you, its not. Its just a fact of life in privacy circles that bad people as well as good people use these types of services. Just pretending it does not happen is avoidance and does not help anyone.
     
  6. Fawkesguy

    Fawkesguy Registered Member

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    That's some interesting logic. Criminals also put their pants on one leg at a time. What's the point? LOL

    Incredibly insightful. ;)

    No one is assuming anything. You're the one who brought criminals into the discussion. Still not sure of the relevance, but ok.


    CM does not have what you're looking for. I think we understand that.

    You were told you did not know what you were talking about because that's how your post came across, regardless of what you claim to do for a living. But I'm not here to defend CM. You voiced your opinion, they voiced theirs, I'm voicing mine.

    And here, based on my avatar and user name, you suggest that I am somehow an advocate of criminal activity. Thanks for the personal attack. Should I now whine about how you are "coming at me aggressively" like you did with CM? :D

    Neither do your assumptions.
     
  7. Veeshush

    Veeshush Registered Member

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    Basically all of this^ well said. You'll always have the criminal examples of the ~ Snipped as per TOS ~ that use a thing, but that shouldn't ruin it for everyone as a whole.

    I was going to use Tor as an example myself. Everyone wants security and privacy- it's a pretty basic human want. I'd use guns as another example of a thing being used by both sides, or even just "weapons" as a whole. It's what people do with the thing, not the thing itself.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2014
  8. Fawkesguy

    Fawkesguy Registered Member

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    Exactly. :thumb:
     
  9. RollingThunder

    RollingThunder Registered Member

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    @Taliscicero - Crime is everywhere. It cannot be avoided. It is pretty clear that I am a strong privacy and anonymity advocate. In other words you do not decimate a technology just because some chose to use it for nefarious reasons. That starts you down the slippery sloap. When you critique any privacy based service based on some criminal usage you may very well find that your own legitimate access to such a service is compromised. Also, I notice in your signature line that you use a VPN and TOR. A couple of uses of VPN's and TOR is downloading illegal intellectual properties via Usenet and Torrenting. Because of that usage then by what you are intimating TOR and VPN's should be made illegal globaly. TOR also has drug, hacking and carding sites. Should millions of sites be compromised due to those reasons? Any sane adult is opposed to child porn (cp). Yet not to long ago Freedom Hosting was taken down by Irish authorities. Along with a huge percentage of cp sites went close to 500.000 non cp sites. That is unintended fallout. All I am saying is be careful what you wish for. At this juncture I feel compelled to refer back to a much-cited 1995 Supreme Court ruling in McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission:

    Protections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse. Allowing dissenters to shield their identities frees them to express critical minority views . . . Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. . . . It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation . . . at the hand of an intolerant society.

     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  10. Taliscicero

    Taliscicero Registered Member

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    I'm not though that's the point.

    and @ Fawkes:

    Whatever man, twist my words however you wish. I don't even know why I post anymore. I can't deal with the confrontational stupidity.
     
  11. mattdocs12345

    mattdocs12345 Registered Member

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    I want the privacy for the same reason other people want privacy. I don't want the goons at the KGB, FBI and whatnot reading my private emails.
    Your argument is very weak and borderline insulting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  12. Fawkesguy

    Fawkesguy Registered Member

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    I am not twisting anything, just responding. And yet again, you feel the need to be insulting.
     
  13. Veeshush

    Veeshush Registered Member

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    Even not at the NSA level, but just general security with email should be important. I'm not going to keep parroting myself, but with everyone mainly using the big 3 (Yahoo, Google and Hotmail) and the things that come up every so often, or even more recently like https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/03/microsoft-says-come-back-warrant-unless-youre-microsoft

    It's like: I just want an email without people other than me getting into it. All my shopping, all my forums and sites I have accounts on- they're all locked to my email.
     
  14. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    I've said this before, and I'll probably say it again ;)

    Just about anything is criminal somewhere, and just about anything is not criminal somewhere else.

    And the Internet is global.
     
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