A substitute for the original?

Re: A substitue for the original?

Hi bgoodman4,

since you are interested in software testing I would also suggest Symantec Workspace Virtualization(free for home users) and if you are on xp MojoPac 2.0 Free.

Panagiotis

 

Originally Posted by Peter

2150 https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1566898&postcount=22

1. If you build two VM's from scratch yes two licenses. But if you build 1, and then clone it only one license necessary.
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I built and paid for a physical system and then want to exactly replicate it on the same physical machine using the same exact OS. Whats the difference between cloning (or replicating through virtualization) a physical machine and cloning (or replicating) a virtual one. I don't get it.

The subtlety of the difference between the 2 situations, in the one case where no 2nd licence is required, and the other where a 2nd licence would be required, escapes me.

 

Re: A substitue for the original?

I thought I had read this on one of the other threads on this subject but I guess I am wrong as I cannot find any reference to it now. No doubt I misread something about Linux and processed it as not needing a 2nd Windows licence.

Thanks for clarifying this as the cost balance between a free virtualize program and no need to pay for a 2nd licence and VMware plus the need to pay for a 2nd licence was pushing the cost envelope a bit.

Now its a matter of actually getting into it and deciding which way to go. Would it make any sense to start with VBox and then, when I have a better idea of how this stuff works graduate to VMware or are the 2 programs different enough that I should just go with VM ware as I really like the snapshot and portability capabilities.

 

That's why these TRUE virtual programs are so awesome. They do such a good job that the software actually thinks it is on a different machine.

Acadia

 

So if I clone a virtual machine it looks like the same hardware to the software but if I clone a real one it looks different?

If this is the case then it should be equally illegal to clone either since the only reason you can clone the virtual one is because the software cannot prevent you from cloning it. And of course that would also mean different licences for PhotoShop, SoundForge, my CAD program (at over $7000), and almost every other piece of software I own. At least that would be the strictly legal way to do it. If this is the case then I would suspect there are very few folks who are using virtualization software who are not breaking the law.

??

So your saying the process of virtualizing a real machine using VMware vCenter Converter will not be successful unless you can input a licence key for Windows during the process? If I have a Windows install disk (which I do since I had my physical system built for me and they gave me the disk --- presumably it will also have a key with it) how will whatever is watching this know if its a new licence or my old one?

Very confusing, Does strike me as absurd though as you are not really duplicating a physical system. If you could you would have doubled your computing power and hard drive space etc. Or quadrupled it or whatever. Clearly (I would think) this is not the case. I expect if I filled my hard drive to capacity on my real machine that would be the end of my virtual one. Seems to me that whats really going on is I am splitting my physical system into smaller portions, not duplicating it.

Please understand I am not trying to convince anyone of my position, I am just trying to get my head around the logic.

EDIT: I am getting a major headache -----

the following is from http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb740791.aspx

 

bgoodman4, I've never completely understood it either but like I said earlier, I'm weak in the legal area. One thing that you could do that would not cost you any money is to install the free Virtual Box or Microsoft program and then try to clone your current system. I would, of course, backup your entire hard drive before attempting any of this. Actually, I don't believe that these virtual programs can even do that otherwise they wouldn't be much more than a regular backup or imaging program; you have to actually install an operating system. But if you ever figure out how to do it please let me know, I'm serious.

Acadia

 

bg4, and everyone, would this work? I have never used a partitioning program so I may be way off base here, but don't partitioning programs have the ability to clone your entire c:drive into another partition. Then you could boot into the other partition and play around all that you like as if it were another computer. Licensing would not be an issue because Windows sees itself on the same hard drive and system.

To repeat myself, having never used partitioning for anything I could be really wrong about this. Those of you who have used partitioning programs, can't they clone c:drives?

Acadia

 

This whole thing started with me asking for a good way to test new software and to be protected when opening suspect e-mails etc. with a min of fuss and time. I could of course use ShadowProtect to image and revert but it takes time to do this. I have RollBack Rx on my laptop and its a very good solution for this as its very fast to take a snap at any point in time and a simple reboot will revert the system to any point I choose. The problem with this is that Rx does not play nice with SP (or any but Rxs companion imager). The solution provided in the thread containing the original question was virtualization which sounded ideal. I could (I thought) virtualize my entire PC as it stands and test new software in a real world like situation. Will the new program cause conflicts with existing programs etc? Can I turn off services and still use my programs etc? These are the kinds of things I am interested in exploring. In addition I thought "cool", I can create various machines and isolate them from each other. I could have a work machine and a play machine, as well as a testing machine, etc etc. I could protect my work machine from anything that might happen to the play machine or the test machine because they are diff virtual machines. In addition I could finally play with Linux etc without concern that I may mess up my system. To me this sounded very much like the original FirstDefence program but its becoming clear that there are significant differences between it and VMware.

The last thing I want to do is reduce the capacity of my PC, if virtualizing it will reduce its available processing power etc its not something I would be interested in. If I could redirect all resources, so that when I am in machine A it uses everything, and when in machine B it uses everything, the situation would be ideal.

This is not to say virtualization is a dead project for me. Its too interesting to let go, but as a solution to my initial objective its not, apparently, a good one.

 

If you could try virtualizing with the free converter I would be very appreciative. I don't want you to go out of your way here so if its something you would prefer not to explore I would fully understand.

 

Not fighting, trying to understand, and I do appreciate everyones patience and attempts to help me in this regard. I am very glad to have found these things out before I invest significant time and possibly cash only to discover its not what I thought it was and it won't work for my purpose.

I will def "play with it" at some point. As I said above its too interesting not to. But I would probably start with VBox since its $189 cheaper than VMware and apparently neither one would suffice for my immediate objective.

I may just have to add Rx to my desktop and put up with its nuisance effects (slower boot, slower system after x weeks of use requiring an uninstall, defrag, etc and a reinstall,,,, inability to play nice with SP, etc etc). Not too onerous but I would prefer some other solution if I can find it.

 

Understood and thanks. I will post a question in the software forum asking if anyone has experience with the converter. Also I will see if there is a VMware forum (there must be) and ask for info there as well. If I can get some feedback that would be great, if not I will have to try it myself and see what happens. I am always nervous about trying anything this involved (and deep into the OS) but I expect the experience will be worth it. I would probably try it on my laptop as Rx would make a reversion simple if things go wrong.

Again many thanks for your input and guidance in this.