Whoo Hooo!!! Vista Rocks!!!!

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by DVD+R, Feb 1, 2007.

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  1. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

    By Passing PatchGuard on Windows x64
    much smaller excerpt this time
    as they need to jerryrig the OS more and more to address emerging threats its not likely to be "more" stable, just the opposite, further they are going to follow the same pattern they always have, namely they dont address a security flaw in a timely manner unless it plays well with a wide range of powerful tied in business\enterprise aps, even if the majority of end users arent running em and a quick fix for most of them is available. Undoubtedly it will be variable but patchguard isnt really the answer its a marketing claim and licensing safeguard.

    Windows Brand HIPS or Windows Partnered HIPS

    Because the need for a HIPS was evident long before Microsoft ever attempted it, and independent programmers made a new layer of defense which we benefited from. But from here on out its only malware authors that will get to play at that level without Microsoft's explicit permission and licensing. And that is bad, really really bad. Because they didn't "fix" anything they just employed slight of hand misdirection.

    It also happens to be the level where any efforts to circumvent this horrible DRM scheme are likely to take place, which means any solutions arent commercially viable as they would never license them and can hound any development from server to server

    and yes I listen to the real security experts, hardware vendors and programmers, its not that hard to practice due diligence in research separating the wheat from the chaff.

    (my timing seems impeccable at the top of the page again, PS wasn't intentional in either case, just fortuitous :p )
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2007
  2. strangequark

    strangequark Registered Member

    to cute to be a coincidence :D

    OK I surrender, I promise I'll never say the word Vista again.
    Mind you I didn't say that I particularly liked it or disliked it for that matter, or we'd all be much better off with it, I am tempted to say it's "pretty" just to see the response. I was mainly pointing out that to can the final release of vista on the RC1 release was silly, as I pointed out RC1 was horribly buggy, by the time RC2 came out there were big improvements, and I'm sure there has been in the final release.
    And I was trying to make DVD+R feel a bit better after spending $745 on a new system that everyone wanted to crucify. Sorry DVD+R your on your own from now on ;)
    As for me I'm happy to stay with XP and Mepis, at least for a while, maybe one day but certainly not ultimate at $745, why that's more than I make in a month :'(
  3. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

    hey I like pretty as long as I get to monkey with it :p ;)

    Ive been into several of these kinds of threads recently
    (which is why Im loaded for bear :p stirred up quite a few of your countrymen at OCAU)
    The OS has several substantial improvements, alot of them could have been incorporated into other OSs, many of them are only available in the Ultimate and Enterprise versions, its the core promises that are more or less bait and switch in the Home version, the consistent advancement of Microsoft driven control, leveraging every penny at your expense or other industies, the strong arm tactics of standards advancement and the damn near universal praise from the corporate media machine blithely dismissing a totalitarian DRM scheme as "old news" that just sticks in my craw.

    Vista delenda est :D
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2007
  4. strangequark

    strangequark Registered Member

    Hi Ice_Czar
    I think it's those pesky emoticons again :eek:
    I couldn't agree more with you, just for the DRM thing alone they deserve to have really nasty things done to them, it looks like it wont be long till a work around is out there for it but that doesn't excuse it at all.

    ah my countrymen can take a good stirring, or at least I hope they can as they've made a name out of being stirrers themselves
  5. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

    friend of mine once shared an elevator with Gates

    and yesterday I saw this sig
    got me thinking, what exactly could I do to Gates in that elevator that would get me arrested so I could have a celebrity circus rant, yet wouldnt actually see me in jail for more than a few months :p

    the thought occurred to me that Id love to let loose an amorous Great Pyrenees on his skinny ass so he could experience the full Vista effect himself :D

    I would of course make a great show of attempting to restrain our overlarge surrogate Pepe le Pew
    Lots of spin potential for the media in that one.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2007
  6. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

    Try learning the basics of Vista before you criticise, clearly your lost, take a look at the manual, its like driving a car when you know how :cool:
  7. strangequark

    strangequark Registered Member

    the movie The King of Comedy showed great fame and fortune can be made from hassling the rich and famous, if your willing to pay with a small amount of your time or money. I'd say definitely worth a thought about Bill.:cautious:

    Now being stuck in an elevator with our Prime Minister would be a different matter probably resulting in suicide o_O

    "the thought occurred to me that Id love to let loose an amorous Great Pyrenees on his skinny ass so he could experience the full Vista effect himself"
    no, that's done it, I'll be stuck with that vision for hours now damn you

    P.S. Ice_Czar is that your dog
  8. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

    naw, just stuff a New Zealand Rugby Team in the elevator with him :p

    but we are digressing far far off topic
  9. strangequark

    strangequark Registered Member

    you have been spending far too much time around australians lately :D
  10. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

    Ive always had the OZ "national character" of irreverence, questioning authority and the "sneak up behind you with a large bat" humor. It just took me awhile to figure out where that was the norm. :D

    and no, I have a Border Collie, a Karelian Bear Dog and a Mutt
    but we are flirting with thread lockage here....so

    back on topic (or anti-topic as the case may be) :p
    another example of corporate greed


    commentary of article

    more in the same vein
    Vista breaks 90% of games, says game publisher

    (of course the point was made Alex St. John's argument is self serving, but IMO never the less valid)

    oh and a site dedicated to this very topic

    you could also join me in orkut at Vista delenda est which is rather lonely with just one member :p
    (unlike the other community I started with 454 members, several of them very cute)
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2007
  11. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

    No probs there.
    No doubts there.
    Now back to Blista. ;)
  12. strangequark

    strangequark Registered Member

    Sorry Longboard I'm up in F.N.Q sitting in the middle of floods and outrageously heavy rain, just feeling slightly tropo.

    There are a couple of podcasts by Peter Gutmann about Vista DRM, of the NZ link Ice_Czar just posted, at Steve Gibsons site http://www.grc.com/SecurityNow.htm#77
  13. Meriadoc

    Meriadoc Registered Member

    As someone who has worked at the dot prompt more than windows and use and experiment with OSes like developed by five people! as opposed to the 10,000+ behind Vista I understand Peter...its their baby though (MS) but it seems to me that MS gets more linear or narrow every microsoft os rollout in what and the way I can do things.
  14. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

    Im shuddering and its not because its -3C outside (was -20C last night)
    there are allies one would rather not have
  15. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

    I rather like Vista as well, it's got some great usability features and I do personally consider aesthetics to be important to some degree. Some of the "power user" options take an extra click or two to get to, but that's a good thing. It also runs just as fast on my machine as XP, which is significant when you consider that it's doing more than XP. Overall I would say that they put a significant amount of thought and effort into the interface.. something the Linux people will need to get a grasp on if it's ever to be suitable for the masses ;) Now that software as a whole is becoming more mature on a technical level, I think that usability is going to be more important than ever before looking forward.

    For the record I have to agree with Eyes Open. Sometimes it seems like a person can't openly appreciate Windows without someone jumping in to try and challenge and/or counter it, even if indirectly.

    I agree; it's all there, it just takes some getting used to. I heard a lot of the same with XP, which eventually faded out.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2007
  16. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

    last week the thought occurred to me that if BiLingual versions of Linux were available (Spanish\English for example) and this is in one GUI interface, it could have a profound effect on adoption among several communities (I happen to live in a mixed gentrified Hispanic area, having ma and pa trying to keep track of the kids in a second language would be tough, also a great tool for day to day exposure to any 2nd language)
  17. Meriadoc

    Meriadoc Registered Member

    I've used rc1 then rc2, my son has business upgrade cos I bought him a laptop and at sometime I'll use Ultimate again. The changes to the interface compared to XP make it feel a lot more mature and everything feels faster - the new search and the way of getting around. We haven't run into any driver problems either.
    WoW starts now :rolleyes:
  18. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Give me a break guys, this ain't about learning. Crap when I put RC1 on it only took me a couple minutes to find out what they did with Documents and Settings although the why of that might take a little learning.

    Hey Notok give me another break. Hows this for analogy. It isn't to hard to learn Prevx, but the issue is do I want it. If I chose to buy it and put on thats fine, but I don't feel like paying some one else for an OS, and having them make the decision for me.

    It's the same reason I won't buy a Dell. Sure I could learn to use all the crapware they put on them, but the point is I(me) want to make the decision if it goes on.

    Same with Vista. I notice some of the manufacturers including my Velocity Micro are giving buyers a choice between Vista and XP Pro. I think even Dell is doing that on some of it's machines.
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    See thread on Raxco Perfect Disk. I also got the same Email

    "During the PerfectDisk 8 Vista certification testing process, Raxco’s development team uncovered a bug within a component of Windows Vista that could potentially cause hard drive corruption. Raxco has already reported this bug to Microsoft and Microsoft is working to resolve the issue. Raxco has designed PerfectDisk 8 build 50 to specifically work around this issue. "

    No "learning" here. I'll wait.
  20. eyes-open

    eyes-open Registered Member

    hehe Notok - you'll get yourself in trouble agreeing with me......... I'm still developing me social skills

    But - as the aesthetics have been raised, or as it's sometimes termed the eye-candy that isn't worth it', annoying flip 3d etc... it might be a pleasant change to try and not miss the point entirely.

    I said it elsewhere, it's not the stuff you're presented with, it's the technology underneath. It's the more interesting debates around WPF versus XGL, the role of XAML in this mix and also web development, so when I hear arguments around these issues reduced to eye-candy, it just seems to be unhelpful on any level.

    I have no brief for or against Vista. I don't believe it's a complete presentation any more than what is sometimes termed 'that dog' SUSE 10.1 (before it was remastered and yes I did try it) was all that SUSE could be - it will evolve, being subject to changes by both Microsoft and the Community. It's way to early for the villagers to light the torches and start screaming ......

    I'll provide 2 links, one to a video on you tube showing XGL in action - it's impressive. I won't be surpised to find beyond the fun lies an engine with tight code -one that doesn't need to offset to hardware in the way that Windows might. Lots of good arguments for this then ....including some environmental ones maybe.

    Chris Pirillo - VIsta's UI is better than this ?

    The link below is a Microsoft one, this is approx 10 minute presentation made at the point when WPF (Windows Presentation Foundation) was still known under it's code name 'Avalon':-

    Sanjay Parthasarathy and Ben Riga - Healthcare demo of Windows Presentation Foundation

    Here's a link to a static page with some of the presentation details: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa663364.aspx

    What you see in this presentation isn't a simple expression of the ability of WPF to work with vector scaling etc.. for it's own sake. This is a developmental presentation, looking at the use of technology within the terms of an actual application. In this example it's looking at a medical application - introducing the ability to interact directly with 3D images, painting on them in a way that absorbs your additions into the 3D render, making realtime notes that synch with the image..... just stuff that raises it above the eye-candy level and begins to express the new generation in a useful way.

    So what's kinda interesting, is that while Linux is the serious man's OS and Vista, the resource wasting eye-candy - when you see them presented there is actually a flip. Linux gets excited about the cool flipping & turning, Microsoft gets excited about the application of the technology. Now, while I'm not saying that Linux can't meet the challenge of reproducing the level of applications that Microsoft is already illustrating - what I am wondering is, does Linux presently have a sufficiently unified mindset to think ahead and plan on this developmental level, because the engine isn't anything on it's own. Maybe the stuff is out there - but I haven't seen it expressed yet - so if you have, please PM me or provide the link here.

    So it's not just about the gloss or eye-candy, the customisation community doesn't look at what it's given it looks at what it can do with what it's given. How to build on it and personalise it - it's about the power and potential to work with it - not the surface look it's sold with.
  21. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

    I wasn't trying to give you a hard time, Peter, I'm sorry if you saw it that way. I've not encountered any situations in which I could do less, in fact quite the contrary. It's just that they've reorganized a lot of things to make the easy things easier and the harder things harder, which is, quite frankly, the correct thing to do. The harder things aren't all that much harder, although they are geared more towards the admins. It's not been so much about learning for me - that's for the new features. For me it's just been a matter of getting used to how things are organized.
  22. Lamehand

    Lamehand Registered Member

  23. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Another extremely important thing no one mentioned yet is the compilation. Any semi-serious programmer will compile on a UNIX platform. I'm not sure if even Microsoft guys do not use a UNIX compiler to make their builds.
  24. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

    that doesnt surprise me at all, I saw several tech pundits predicting that after the endless 5 year 6 billion dollar development cycle that was Vista, that it would be the last such monolithic effort in OS history

    need to review that would be hard to see the grounds for a utility patent
    for beginners how does it muster past the "obvious" criteria or "unique" for that matter
  25. Meriadoc

    Meriadoc Registered Member

    Perhaps even *OS Live
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