Well my dad uninstalled the anti virus program and almost every anti spyware program

Re: Well my dad uninstalled the anti virus program and almost every anti spyware prog

lol! Hear we go!

Yes, but can this not be accomplished with out the use of a hidden keylogger?.

 

Re: Well my dad uninstalled the anti virus program and almost every anti spyware prog

The lack of an answer makes me inclined to agree. I have run into instances where users were convinced that any security-ware would bog their system down and thought this might be one of those cases. Gamers and file sharers mainly.

I can't completely agree with the rest of the conclusions and the "morality" rationale. It's not just the users problem when their unprotected PC becomes infected. When it becomes a zombie or infected with a spambot, it becomes everyones problem. The right and wrong aren't aren't so clearly defined when a users wishes are contrary to the greater good, especially when the average user doesn't begin to comprehend what PCs can do when they're used as weapons. Try explaining this to someone who's not computer savvy.
I spent well over a year trying to sway a friend who had cable internet and a long expired AV. To quote her feelings on this:
I don't care what they do with my computer, as long as I can play my games.
Just watching the hard drive and especially the modem LEDs when no one was using it was enough to convince me that this PC was being actively exploited. Is it better to do nothing and watch a friends PC being used to attack or spam someone else or is it better to intervene even when the PCs owner doesn't care? I chose to intervene. Her PC was being used in a DDOS attack.

IMO, a persons right to decide what is or isn't installed on their PC is inseparably tied to responsibility for what that PC does. If by their actions or inactions, someone allows their PC to be used maliciously, others have the right to intervene for the greater good. This doesn't mean that you or I can install a security app on a PC that either of us considers unsecured. If we know for certain that a PC is being used maliciously because it's owner hasn't bothered to secure it, IMO we're obligated to intervene for the sake of others.
I've no doubt that some will not agree.
Rick

 

Re: Well my dad uninstalled the anti virus program and almost every anti spyware prog

Why not teach them a hard lesson? Like installing a keylogger or a RAT and scare then a little.

 

Re: Well my dad uninstalled the anti virus program and almost every anti spyware prog

Well, I suppose we could start with - because that's wrong, pure and simple.

The problem with much of this discussion is that it starts with the immediate premise that the most negative of all potential outcomes is what is inexorably achieved. That's nonsense pure and simple. Could they end up infected with a spambot? Sure. But let's not lose sight of the fact that, depending on usage styles and sites visited, ending up with a completely clean machine could be an alternate or even more probable result. As long as it is consistent with the installed program base and use style, transparent measures such as the use of limited accounts can yield a more effective preventative measure.

I'm all protecting user machines, but the ends are never justified by means such as some of those discussed above. In fact, it is the antithesis of much of what is discussed here and operationally no different than, for example, Sony installing a rootkit on your machine without your knowledge or consent simply because they're concerned about maintaining a high margin revenue stream. In addition, consider the potential fallout if a reluctant user decided to try out an AV or suite based on a change of heart, without knowing one had been surreptitiously installed by a "well-meaning" friend. I think most of us know that the potential outcome of that situation may not be all that pretty and could be a complete disaster.

No, the world does not need stealth system admins protecting everyone from themselves. People should focus keeping their own homes in order, offering a helping hand when it is needed or requested, and understanding that there are boundaries that should not be crossed.

Blue

 

Re: Well my dad uninstalled the anti virus program and almost every anti spyware prog

I'll agree that installing an AV without their knowing isn't a good idea but I don't have a problem with forcing them to realize that they need one.

I thought about doing just that but decided on something not quite as extreme. Gamers don't like it when things open up on top of a game.

 

Re: Well my dad uninstalled the anti virus program and almost every anti spyware prog

I guess I have a major issue with the "forcing". If it is my machine, it is not forced, it is simply a condition for use. If it is not my machine, I really have no business forcing my preconceived notions of what is proper on the owner of that machine.

After all, how is this materially different than you ISP requiring/forcing you to use product X only, nothing else, and no more than that simply because they have determined that this is what is "best" for you? Would you have a problem with that if it occurred?

Blue

 

Re: Well my dad uninstalled the anti virus program and almost every anti spyware prog

You are right. But I think you have not understood me completely.
I was thinking in requesting permission to make a demonstration of potential damage caused by malware and provide reading material about phishing, spam, botnets, identity thief, etc. This is different from installing malware without consent.

 

Re: Well my dad uninstalled the anti virus program and almost every anti spyware prog

Good point. I have had to throw in the towel many a time, (give up) and say I have done all I can. If the person will not listen then you should not "force" the issue.

 

I thought about this sentence and it sort of was close to a situation regarding one of my older PCs earlier which appeared to react oddly after I installed a replacement AV program to it. The mouse cursor would hesitate every few seconds when I moved it across the screen. My response to this was "WTF is going on here?!". I had no applications opened and I had to wait every few seconds just to move the mouse pointer from one icon area to the other. The hesitation continued when I started any application as well. Now if every AV program produced the same problem on my system, I think I would come close to saying "to hell with AV protection" and just boot up the PC without it. That would then make my PC more vulnerable, of course. But the annoyance of having to "drag and wait" for the mouse cursor to respond was quite aggravating. Playing a PC game (which I don't do anyway) would obviously have been affected. The hesitation issue appears to have been resolved now, so I was able to use the system without the annoying drag.

 

Re: Well my dad uninstalled the anti virus program and almost every anti spyware prog

it seems that windows 98 and windows ME are the only OS to be affected by the mouse drag.
i had that mouse drag when trying most av's on my windows me system.
happerned with antivir dr web etc.
lodore