AU has introduced tons of issues, the update afterwards even more, MS had to re-release it to fix them and that is just a few examples. And we are talking about "stable" version, not insider. MS new policy: If it gets broken, we will just fix it in the next update, no biggie. That is like saying, a thief can break into your house via windows so why bother locking the door. Every little bit helps.
*Sighs* I just dont get it either man. Conditioned apathy? I will fight being watched and profited off of and tracked with my dying breath. The purpose of a government is to protect people from other people (by enforcing rights that each individual has), protect people from the people of other countries (military), protect people against corporate entities that would infringe on their rights for profit, and to protect people against incursions on their rights made by errant regional government. Instead, it seems the government(s) is/are just as in on it as the entities we need to be protected from. And the people? NOTHING seems to wake them up. This is going to end in calamity. Some event is going to happen- something small that is seemingly insignificant compared to other issues- and a snowball effect is going to turn it into calamity. It seems to be a trend repeated throughout history- logic doesnt ever seem to be the prevailing defense against tyranny but rather emotional reaction to crisis. Linux for me!
I was hoping the **** to come would wait another 30-50 years till I'm off this planet. But I now see fascism & or anarchy coming at light speed. Hence my sig. Thanks George Orwell, at least I'll know when it's settled in & crushed everyone's soul. Oh a shout out to W.A. for Bananas before he was a ShortEyes. I hope when the time arrives I'll still be able to laugh at it, between crying for our lost moral decency.
Does Windows 10 have any real advantages over Windows 7 ? I'm not aware of any, but I didn't try 10 either.
Any technical advantages it does have are far outweighed by it's disadvantages. I've come up with a few more recently the most notable of which is background bandwidth sucking that is not accounted for by Windows update or any other process launched by the user. I have a slow connection and running a Windows 10 VM can use up most of it when I'm doing nothing other than running the news applet. Activation is another. I have an installation that had both Windows update and BITS disabled. After 9 months or so, I got an activation notice and Windows wouldn't activate until I enabled these services again. So Windows 10 is using something like KMS activation which requires a periodic contact with MS servers to maintain though specific services. Not good, in previous versions except for the enterprise version using KMS activation, activation was permanent and required no further contact with MS to maintain.
i strongly disagree 1- far better security than Win7 (WD, system wide smartscreen, Appcontainer IL, better Patchguard, etc... ); Win7 security is way obsolete compared to Win10; i dont even mention Win10 Enterprise. 2- fastest boot via hybrid boot 3- better delivery of updates when doing clean install; on win7 you wait ages before even starting (if it start) the downloads of the updates. 4- better handling of tablet-type devices, yes people use tablet now. The list is long... the only con Win10 may have is telemetry/privacy thingy (over-exaggerated in my opinion). here is a simple experience i did: https://malwaretips.com/threads/windows-7-better-than-windows-10-really.62320/ i took 2 computers and installed Win7 on one and Win10 on other ; i use computers with hardware similar to those available when each OS were released. this experience is basic: clean install, update and minor tweaking, use... no uber-technical stuff done. what do you means by slow? my connection is around 350kb/sec , and i'm not hampered by Win10. Activation is MS server based, when you upgraded to Win10, your license was uploaded to MS servers, modified and bound to your Hardware; so it allows you to do unlimited clean installs on the same machine, and you don't have to save your license anywhere risking of loosing it. You just need an internet connection in the case in case an activation prompt is requested, the activation is then made silently.
There are Win 10 versions that don't contain the issues mentioned earlier. They should have offered that at regular price for those who want more control over the system and the current one for free for those who don't care.
And the security of your "superior" Windows 10 install is completely inferior to any even slightly focused on privacy/security Linux setup. It isn't even close actually... Windows cannot fix its problems without a complete rewrite that would destroy backwards compatibility, and thus they leave everyone vulnerable to a fundamentally poor design. They wont rewrite it because their hegemony in this market is far more important than your security/privacy (to them). You dont need to tell me about Linux's issues- believe me I know plenty (the problems are just fundamentally different than Windows). If you go over to the All About Unix subforum you will see us openly discuss various distros and their problems- this has been the MO of Linux since its inception. Isnt this how all software should be discussed? "Over-exaggerated in my opinion." So criticism of them harvesting usage patterns which they can then sell to third-party advertisers is an over-exaggerated response? Forcing advertisements on the lock screen while removing (in the pro version) any means to disable it is not a big deal? The downplaying of privacy issues in Windows 10 seems horribly myopic to me; if we do not hold Microsoft and others accountable for their incursions on our privacy it will just KEEP GETTING WORSE. You really think where Windows 10 is now is where they will leave it? Tyrants (which Microsoft is a software version of..) will continue to aggrandize more and more power from those they rule until they are checked. It has been this way throughout human history... Immediately when there is criticism of Windows 10- even here at Wilders- there are 15 people who come out of the woodwork to defend their practices and their product. Even indisputably horrible crap- like the sneaky crap pulled on Windows 7 users. I just dont get it... we are only screwing us.
Can't you tinker with certain privacy-related things in Settings/System/Notifications and Actions among others? I expect at least some telemetry with this whole new operating system, and have seen the positive effects of it in Task Manager with various exe.s doing maintenance. I turn off the Cortana, too chummy and nosy for me. The thing about Windows updates is a problem, MS should do a warning banner or something when a download is imminent. Windows 10 I've found to be a very clean and efficient system, no regrets, not yet anyway.
I tested Win 10 in VM and on my netbook and I must agree. It's not "far outweighed" for me, but overall Windows 7 is better desktop OS than Windows 10. Windows 10 has some security improvements but on the other hand offers less stability, user control and decreases privacy.
Less stability? I'm certain many, if not most, will vouch for the opposite. Personally, I wouldn't consider a VM within a netbook to be a sufficient assessment to base one's final judgement on.
I use VM install on desktop and another install as main OS on netbook. I judge stability mainly on customer support calls after they upgraded to 10 or after installing updates and major releases.
For those concerned about privacy on Win10, use a Local Account and set the Telemetry level to Basic.
Having upgrades that amount to a reinstall twice a year is hardly stable. Just reading the anniversary upgrade thread will tell you that. I set up systems that function for years on end and my view of stability is long term. The Xp system I'm typing this on was set up initially in 2009 from Lenovo restore media. I've been using it ever since and it is still stable and reliable. Not only did the install of the original Windows 10 release insist on upgrading to the 1511 release without giving me the option of refusal, it deactivated when I disabled the services that prevented this. I can't rely on an OS that behaves this way. The install of Windows 10 is fine the way it is. I already tried 1511 and the earlier version works better on this computer. I have no intention of upgrading it, I hardly use it at all and on the odd night I boot it, I just want it work with it for a short while without interruption. Updates are ok but not an an almost 4gb "upgrade" that will take hours and force me to check every setting on the system afterwards. I'm actually coming to the same feeling about Windows 10 as I feel about Mac OSX. It is fine for those that can work with it but what I want to do with the OS and what the OS will let me do without problems are two different things. If I want to disable huge parts of the OS and use it in a way the developer doesn't approve of, that's my business. Once again, control is the issue and I want more control than either Windows 10 or OSX will give me. I don't have much bandwidth. I live in an area where bandwidth is scarce and expensive. So upgrades happen in very slow motion and slow all other internet traffic on the network to a crawl. The only way I'm willing to do them is by ISO, not by Windows update and that is at my convenience, not Microsoft's. In just using a VM, Windows 10 was basically sucking everything the router would give it which isn't that much to begin with. I have no idea if there is an upper limit but it isn't the amount but that it is doing this without even notifying the user with no discernible purpose is the problem, not the amount. If I was administering a network with multiple computers running Windows 10, this would drive me crazy and the solution would be to hard throttle their bandwidth in the router. Overall conclusion after messing with Windows 10 for the last year: Thumbs down multiple times for multiple reasons. It has wasted too much of my time and bandwidth and given me nothing in return. Yeah, I can use it if I have to but if I have a choice, I almost always choose something else. For Windows, that is Windows 7 as long as using it is feasible. Linux as much as possible but I'm still going to be using Windows. To point out an upgrade that is more in line with what I like, Ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04. On the user interface side, exactly the same, inside a new and updated OS. No learning curve at all, no interruption of the work flow to deal with a completely redesigned GUI. The initial problems were quickly fixed. That is the way upgrading should work.
Can't you admit that Win10's security is superior than any previous versions? why do you bring Linux in a Win10 discussion?! Everybody knows that Linux is safer than Windows, it was conceived with security in mind (you can see that with the clear separation between users) unlike Windows which was based on usability and versatility. Linux is still a geek OS, any Average Joe is lost just when they realized they have to use Command lines...i dont even talk about unsupported hardware because lack of proper drivers... Do you think only MS does it? im using a MS account sine Win8 , i don't get any annoyance from the so-called "harvested and resold datas", the only spam i got was after registering on some websites. Advertisement on lock screen ?! i don't have any on mine , and i use the Home version; maybe you didn't check the settings long enough... there is no privacy anymore on our society, whether you like it or not; your datas are harvested since you are born for various purposes, that is how is a modern society. As i said before, you want privacy ? go live in a jungle and even there not sure you will have it; spying satellites and monkeys are watching you !" MS did a bad move with those telemetry and upgrades pushes , but business is business, MS isn't a charity organization; so this is expected business practice. If you feel so screwed why don't you shift permanently to specialized privacy-oriented Linux distros. When im not happy somewhere , i move, that is simple logic. If you can't , stop complaining , and instead start looking for privacy tools, you have plenty that disable the telemetry of Win10. Even using a surrogate MS accounts without or just a local account is a big step to hamper datas harvesting. all this to say i like Win7 , i like Linux, but i prefer Win10 (despite its cons) over the 2 others. to me it is usable, versatile, compatible and saf enough to fit my needs. Privacy issues ? i don't care i can find workarounds if needed.
Sure, its better than 7- and yet it is still fundamentally broken. Windows had Unix as an example at least on the front of user layout, and chose not to build upon a multi-user platform; vague statements suggesting this somehow added usability and versatility does not change that reality. I login into my Linux box just the same as you do your Windows install. The multi-user system (DAC- discretionary access control) of Linux is itself NOT one of the reasons Linux is more difficult to use (which itself is largely a myth now with distros like Mint). Linux's problems relate primarily to a lack of a proprietary software ecosystem; its capability as a base for software is not the problem, but rather that software companies do not see any profit in producing for Linux. Yes, Microsoft is the only company producing an operating system (Windows 10) that harvests personal data for profit and has made it increasingly difficult to disable such "features." I should note Ubuntu (Canonical corporation- seeing a trend with corporations here?) did this with Unity and the Amazon lens, but it could at least be turned off easily, removed entirely, and was met with a public outcry that HAS definitely hurt its usage. I just "updated" to Windows 10 AU yesterday, and so havent experienced the ads yet. I doubt I ever will, because I only updated to avoid paying for a windows license and so that I have it for the aforementioned proprietary software ecosystem in the event I ever need it. Despite all that: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/4w9bix/disable_the_windows_10_lock_screen_anniversary/ https://slashdot.org/story/16/05/16/1526227/microsoft-adding-more-ads-to-windows-10-start-menu http://www.infoworld.com/article/31...d-advertising-creeps-into-windows-10-pro.html Some people seem to report success in disabling with controls, others with hacks, and still others cant seem to escape ads. Consider this: not everyone has upgraded from Windows 7/8/8.1... Some people have actually paid hard cash to get a product that simply is not happy with that profit, and greedily wants MORE by pushing ads. When does it stop? If people do not draw a line, it wont stop. This is the most tragic statement of individual helplessness I've read for awhile. Are we really so defeated that we allow corporations to subdue us in this way? Ok, so there isnt privacy- shouldnt we do something about that? I dont have a problem with Facebook- I dont have a problem with ANY form of voluntary sacrifice of privacy for the purpose of social inclusion. If a person decides to share their life with others, so be it... However, knowledge is power. The more power governments and corporations are granted, the more they WILL abuse it; this is not a conspiracy theory but a statement born of FACT found by even the most amateur look at history. There needs to be a LINE; we need to have our own personal space where noone is allowed to tread, or else we might as well don the shackles now. Microsoft's approach to usurping privacy on the personal operating system is a PRECEDENT that has now been set- you would be foolish to not at least FEAR that other entities will attempt to capitalize on this precedent for their own profits. I shifted to a Linux distro in 2007, and Im posting this from a grsecurity'd/PAX'd/firejail'd/AppArmor'd Arch Linux install. This is not about my personal bitterness towards Microsoft and how I dont like seeing their ads on my computer screen. I dont deal with ads and I dont deal with an OS dictating to me what I need to accept. My entire criticism is based on the idea of protecting those who arent computer users yet, on protecting ourselves 20 years from now, and further on considering the social ramifications such technologies will have if we dont CHECK THEIR INCURSIONS ON OUR PERSONAL SPHERE. Seriously, why do people who criticize such odious corporate policies always end up attacked by the very people they are arguing on behalf of? If you want to turn on advertisements, FINE... But the moment you allow a corporation to dictate what a person will accept is the moment freedom dies within that sphere. How many spheres will corporate and governmental entities need to kill freedom in for people to understand the significance of what they're losing? Watch the documentary "Century of the Self." Unless I've misinterpreted the latter part of that documentary, your response sounds dangerously familiar to what they were discussing. The Self is being exploited by corporations to procure profit; all I'm trying to say is its NOT all about you! Its about US. Its about what WE want and what WE need. You should fight for me to have the right to have no ads, just as I should fight for you to have ads if you wish...
it is too late and costly for MS to redo entirely their OS structure, imagine all those companies using it , they won't spend time and money again to redesign their entire infrastructure... when i meant "only one" i dont mention only OS vendors but everything; Google is the 1st harvester and we still use Android; Apple surely do the same; website use cookies or ask your email to register; because when it comes to business, money comes first, people after. so you were talking without even using it? seriously?! yes you have plenty of valid apps for that, O&O shutup10 is a good one. yes we are it is a fact. what you can do ? nothing ! because you don't have direct access to the system to verify. When someone say something , doesn't mean it does it... and government and megacorporations won't tell you the truth if it is against their interests. Where will you put a line when all is in cyberspace, we can't even stop a teenager to hack a train railroad system , how you want stop a infinite resources government or megacorp. ok let say you manage to remove all telemetry from your PC ; your datas will still be harvested in another way, for example by setting up data leecher on routing servers. Hackers does it already. you really believe you have freedom? you lost freedom long time ago...all your choices are predefined and dictated, you are allowed to do certain things , not free to do things; this is a huge difference. Indeed USA is not the best about privacy mitigations in fact they are the pionners about datas harvesting, even some european countries (where i'm from) has better privacy policies; but it is just powder in the eyes. i understand your concerns , but it is already too late. Barriers should have been made from the start. Many website leech your datas also , it is not only MS it is a generalized behaviors since internet was used to make business. As you said knowledge is power, and power is money; and money is the blood of modern society sadly; so i dont see this stop anytime soon, and those government or megacorp don't need your permissions to do what they like, they will do it in the shadows and you will never know until a dude decide to betray and expose them. anyway, we start going offtopic lol, it was a win10 topic , not a freedom and rights topic ^^
Exactly. W7 Ultimate features have been lost in the W10 "Pro" version "upgrade". It's not Pro at all. Enterprise isn't accessible to SMB, or at least, not in a way I'd be willing to swallow. Stepping back, I feel the W7 vs W10 vs Linux war is unproductive, what is screaming out to me is that it is a good plan to run a virtual machine environment based on open source host/hypervisor, then restrict each guest to do what it does best. Then, you can always compartmentalise, snapshot, airgap, firewall each guest appropriately. Again, MS manage to shoot themselves in the foot because there is no non-Enterprise licence really suitable for flexible VM operation.
Following up on the issues I brought up, I restored the image that had Windows 10 deactivated. Offline it remained activated but it was deactivated when I connected to the internet and MS. I have the two services disabled that run the Windows update process, Windows Update and BITS(Background Intelligent Transfer Service). They are disabled by setting the ACLs of the service's .dll files to deny. Those are the only two "guerilla" tweaks I've done. Everything else is done through the services and group policy editors. I suspected Windows Update was responsible and that proved true. After I renabled Windows update by reversing the ACLs, Windows was activated again after checking for updates and logging off and on again. So activation is dependent on Windows update periodically--something like every 9 months--communicating with an MS server. I think this just applies to the free upgrades, if you have a unique product key, activation data is probably stored on the local machine. This is nothing new, it is a variation of KMS(Key Management Service),that Microsoft has been using for volume licensing with the difference being that the license server is maintained by Microsoft itself, not an enterprise server. With BITS disabled and Windows update enabled, Windows 10 checks for updates but can't download them. This is good because upgrade to a newer version of Windows 10 is now mandatory and the upgrade is no longer deferred. BITS is also responsible for the mysterious bandwidth sucking when the News app is launched. Without it, the app works fine but there is no huge background downloading of god knows what--probably caching articles but that is just speculation. And, of course, the forced upgrades are a prime reason to not use Windows 10. It doesn't seem that long ago that I downloaded and installed the original Windows 10 release with a lot of trouble to get it installed and working and there is no reason to reinstall so soon. It is more than inconvenient, it is risky and stupid to replace a stable system with a new one that has already proven to be problematic for a lot of users. The upgrade process is surprisingly smooth for Windows 10 but it is far from problem free and a clean install would mean having to reinstall all the software in the system and deal with licenses. The old service pack system was much better for users like me who can set up a system that will function for years. I agree that getting into a Windows 10 vs Windows 7 vs Linux argument is pointless. This thread, by its title, takes a critical view of Windows 10 and I am trying to point out real issues with it, not get into arguments over which is the better OS. There are other threads where those who like and have had good experiences with Windows 10 can praise its virtues.
I totally agree with your comments quoted above. This is what I consider to be a major blunder and mistake in MS's way of doing things in 10. Upgrades probably work for many, but they certainly are not problem free, and they do cause issues for many, sometimes even fatal issues. Forced upgrades twice a year (which I believe is what they are planning) just isn't the way to do anything. Of course the forced updates and upgrades are their way of controlling exactly what goes into your system, features & otherwise. I now long for the old service pack way of doing things, but they're been moving away from that for a decade now, each subsequent OS release has had less and less service packs till they're down to just one with Win 7, none with 8 and 8.1 and of course in 10, a whole new way of doing things. IMO, the above methods used by MS will also be their downfall, eventually.
In fact people like us lurking in various security/geeks forum, would prefer the Enterprise version, to have more control on the OS, unfortunately for us, they made it way too expensive and inaccessible...
After airing my grievances over and about Windows 10 snoop city methodology and while not even testing yet it i decided to finally cave and see for myself. Well it's everything (and more so far) that you've pointed it out to be as far as the Pros of it. I had no idea it was near as stable and snappy (so far) as it's proving to be and overall solid as a rock compared to my 8.1 machines. And thus it begs to no end to question why in the world $MS would throw cold water on this new system like it has by dampening encouragement with all the tracking(s) telemetry, and forced updates etc. when it seems to me to be the most steady release (now anyway after some damage control updates) to date. I skipped Windows 7 so i can't really offer any comparisons on that but so far Windows 10 screams feed me, and i don't mean tracking crap, so i been pushing tons of apps into it, even some Windows 98 customized treats which i been using throughout the different O/S's (in my case, Win 98/Win XP/) and i'll be darn, they work perfect on Windows 10 so far too. Time will tell on this end but so far i must say as a fierce $MS skeptic (have been for years you know) that even i am highly impressed with the performance and stability. I think in time, and they will be much better for it, to withdraw from the other annoying aspects of it that has turned off so many peeps that many won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. If they need a O/S tracking system so badly, then IMO they should have released a version just for that purpose and monitor things to their heart's content but not force it on users like they have which in turn seems to have alienated a whole world of users who already felt they were punked enough with the way Windows 8 was first introduced. Who knows, maybe they'll finally get that part right eventually. But so far for this user in my current and late testings (as always), and with all the other negative matters aside, i'm convinced (so far) that they have tightened things up quite reliably with this one. Knock on wood too no blue screens yet either There's still much more to poke and prod on it so just wanted to drop off my opinion of it (so far).
With MS there were always 2 distinct and separate notion to understand: What they offer and what they need from you. what they offer: 1- no one can deny the fact that every new release since XP , they made the OS stronger, not perfect of course, but stronger; you can see it with the various added security features and kernel improvements oriented toward stability on every version. 2- They give Win10 for "free" , which in my case, and for many people can save lot of money; just imagine than a paid version on Win8 was around 1-2 months of salary in some countries. From now we won't have to pay for a new version every 2 years. What they need: 1- before, they just needed your money directly , but since the rise of "easier-to-use" Linux distros , they changed their "angle" , they will make money indirectly. Now how they do it may be questionable for many people but not for all. 2- they still need telemetry for the reason above but also to improve the OS , many totally reject telemetry and then complain the OS isn't as good or bugless as they want...foolish thinking; how can they improve without feedback? so now What we want: 1- Some want a secure, stable and easy to use OS (like me) , they did it quite well with Win10. (ask Appcontainer, patchguard, secureboot, Windows Defender, etc...) 2- some wanted it free; they did it 3- Some want cool features and fancy GUI; i think they did quite well too with metro apps and the win8/10 start menu. 3- some want total privacy , unfortunately for them, we live in a privacy-breaking based society, either for business (ask Google) or homeland security (ask NSA) . So for those really wanting privacy , follow Snowden and use a privacy-oriented Linux distro, because with MS you will never have it and it was like that since day one of Windows. Do you really think that the most used OS in the world is shielded from the governments' scrutiny (and manipulation)? i personally don't think so. Conclusion Nothing is free in the free world ^^ so we can either deal with it (and stop whining) and if we can't we still have other choices. MS do business not charity (only Bill Gates do charity now ^^)
