TDS software line discontinued

lol you people here are hawks. free free give it to me free! that sounds exactly like my 3 year old daughter. Wayne youre crazy for giving awawy free programs you are now being shoot for your kindness lol

 

Yeah, some people need to take a trip to the beaches of Thailand....I guarantee you will forget all about software.....lol


Starrob

 

Starrob,
I'm envious, as TDS has prevented me from going on more than a 2-day holiday since Dec 1997.

 

Why can't you belive it Infinity?, sure some may be speaking with an highpitched voice, but you can't expect users who feel left high and dry from one day to the other, to like it, can you? Especially those with a license bought within the last 6-10 months.

I can understand that you feel you got your money's worth as someone who have had TDS for many years, but not all are in this boat.

As for me as an Process Guard licenseholder, i'm selfishly hoping that development of this will pick up, with new enhanced versions to come soon.

 

Wayne, I can understand what you are talking about but the reason why I used the term "Public Relations Nightmare" is that you are not going to be able to talk your way out of this one.

Some of these people are emotionally hurt by the decision and are not going to respond to logical answers.

They are only going to respond to specific actions that they feel will make them whole again. The choice is simple. You can take specific actions that will bring many immediately back into your camp or.......

You can cut the line...letting the fishes go with the assumption that many will be back on the hook when they see your newest offerings....of course you will always lose some people but in the scheme of things it won't matter much.

The latter option is a gamble but it is a gamble we will see whether you take over the next few months. Only Wayne knows whether he will take the gamble because he sees the amount of responses both positive and negative in his email. If the negative responses are running like 80 or 90% then he would probably decide to take specific actions that people would percieve would make them whole (assuming it is financially affordable for the company).

If the negative response is around like 10% then he can live with the malcontents and would assume he can get half of the malcontents back in camp over time.

So right now, it is up in the air whether the malcontents would cause a change of mind in the handling of the situation or whether they are just barking into the wind.

Only Wayne can answer that one....Yeah....anyone else want popcorn?


Starrob

 

I honestly hope that you will soon be able to take a couple of weeks of, it's not healthy working for that long without a mental break from it all.

 

Don,

Now with TDS off the To Do list, yes we will have time to enhance our existing software. WormGuard, ProcessGuard and Port Explorer are all on the list as well as a secret project which will be out very soon. With TDS essentially all we'd be able to do is TDS, such is its time/resource demand.

Best regards,
Wayne

 

The beaches of Thailand are the ticket. Bali also is good. I like Malaysia also......I only been to KL but heard good things about Penang. Also heard Vietnam is nice.....yeah....after this all blows over take a vacation.

I suggest the malcontents take a vacation too. I used to get heavily emotional about software but I realized maybe 6 or 8 months ago that there is more to life than waiting anxiously for the next update.


Starrob

 

Starrob,
You must watch more soap operas than I do ...
This is simply the discontinuation of a software product. It happens on a very regular basis, programs don't live forever, and I don't see how people could be "emotionally hurt" by this, especially as the main beneficiaries will be our customers - it's a small loss for what will be years of gain. If anybody would be emotionally hurt it should be me - I've paid for the ongoing maintenance since I created TDS in the mid-late 90s out of my own pocket in terms of money, and with my own time and resources in terms of development. It is now at the stage where it is costing me so much time and so much money that it is not worth it, especially when I could be using that time to develop software far more powerful and beneficial to the user.

Put it this way ... some people will inevitably want us to keep polishing the old Bentley and keep it running, but they'll realise this decision was in everyones best interests when we start wheeling out a Ferrari, then a Porsche, etc ... apologies for the horrible analogy, but you get what I mean . We're just evolving with the times, and we're not afraid to make the big decisions along the way if they're ultimately be beneficial for our customers.

 

I used to be a big fan of Soap Operas in the 1980's but now I set my TV channel to CNBC. Talking stocks is even a bigger Soap Opera because money is involved.

I will tell you why people get emotional. Many people rightly or wrongly get emotionally involved with the products they buy. Take stocks for example. I have seen people buy stocks and ride it all the way down to zero simply because they fell in love with the idea of the stock. It is a ego thing after a person buys. People want to buy things they feel is number one so they can feel emotionally superior to all the other idiots in this world.

It benefits you to have buyers that buy emotionally. They fall in love with the product, your company, they fall in love with you and hang on to every word you say....for some people you can do no wrong. This benefits you....You will have people defending your products when they don't even have the financial incentive to do so.

I have learned over time to take as much emotion as I can out of buying decisions. I prefer to look at things more logically. I found out I make better buying decisions that way and I don't feel that the seller is personally targetting me, if things don't go well.

I can guarantee you that you have a few people that think you personally targetted them and their whole lifestyle because many have made their whole lifestyle centered around their computer.

I learned I was getting that way too.....that is why I'll go to Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand, Singapore and sometimes go to places so far out that there is virtually no internet. Take a trip to Yogjakarta and go see Borobudur. There ain't no computers if you decide to hike up the side of one of the volcanoes that are in the area.

My whole point is that I can understand your decisions but there are some that are emotionally involved to a extreme level. I guess some feel personally slighted even though you don't even know them personally.

Ok, I got to shower and start my day....


Starrob

 

Now since you like soaps so much go play the SS3 scripts we created with the msagents singing and dancing on your screen. Especially the CokeMachine (with a voice-commanded computer helper included) and the InnerPeace script (which shipped with TDS) come to mind.
There are more usefull scripts as well, including the jukebox.

Yes, emotionally connected with TDS, in using TDS and support we got lots of cultural education as well. Not any need to uninstall it at all.
So we don't have to miss that little voice recommending to add sleep to our to-do list and asking bites from our lunch. It stays up with the exec protection till that is replaced with something new. I use TDS for pronounciation too.

 

I do think throwing around legal threats is not appropriate CrownKing82, regardless whether they are well founded.
Wayne...you refer to the cases of customers that have no reason to be upset, and then generalize that case across a different set of customers. It's a logical flaw for one and even more important you are alienating a group of customers that are most vulnerable to leaving you...the new customers that just purchased your software and especially those that have purchased all of your products. Big mistake my friend. An even bigger mistake is to cast aside the legal ramifications of your actions as if they don't exist. Believe me...they are real and they are potentially serious. It doesn't take a lawyer to see that you are treading in some dangerous water with respect to the law.

You don't have to do anything, but you could be held legally liable if in the terms of the sales agreement, written, oral, explicit, or implied, you said you would.

This is the only one that matters to some. It can take 18 years to gain loyalty and one day to lose it forever.

Again you assume that they will remain customers. The only way it could cost them more money is if they decide to continue doing business with you and by the sound of things, that doesn't apply to everyone.

There are many laws that govern such cases and it seems that a strong argument could be formed against your actions from severaly different angles...and you don't have to sign a contract to enter into one...Wayne sometimes you appear highly intelligent and other times...I'm not so sure.

 

Hi Wayne,

I'm envious as well. No holidays for me since the Nov 1993, when I took over the family business. I took a lot of heat from everyone (family/board members/employees) in 1997 for eliminating a multi-decade product line. With profits and customer satisfaction now at historic highs (as a direct result of my decision), the critics are silent and hope their criticisms have been forgotten. As I said in my e-mail, I wish you the best of luck.

Nick

 

Hi,

This is a very difficult situation - and it is not at all amusing to me. The people at DiamondCS, over the years, have helped me out of very serious situations. They have been there when other vendors (who I have paid much more money to - e.g. Microsoft) were not. They have been good friends to me, and I do not abandon my friends when it gets rough - nor am I amused by any problems that they or their customers might be having right now.

I do not know anyone at DCS personally - and have only had a few emails with them over the years. However, they have always been there when I needed them - and I therefore stand by them when they need me. None of us are perfect. They could have abandoned me when I made "mistakes" (e.g. letting trojans in on my system). But they didn't. They were there to help. As am I now.

I believe that there exists sincere and understandable customer grievances. But I am not sitting back amuaing myself with the situation, because real lives are at stake. I hope that a fair resolution can be arrived at. I believe it is possible. I hope it happens.

Regards,
Rich

 

@wayne,

For me it seems like a logical decision, and i also think,
that in the end it will be better for us (your customers).

It is very nice that you offer a PG or PE license for lic. TDS-3 users.

But is it not possible, for customers that bought a license for
ALL DCS PRODUCTS.

Lets say, the best customers, to give them some extra Discount in their
member's area for the first new license to buy?


I don't think it is fair when this 'BEST'customers, which have no use
for getting a 2nd PE or PG license end up with only 'having a cold shower'.

 

Again, TDS is just one program, try to keep it in perspective and also think about the future because what happens today doesn't just affect tomorrow, but also years to come. Companies regularly discontinue products and replace them with newer, better ones. That is all that has happened here, and in an industry as dynamic as the software industry its rare for programs to last as long as TDS has. This is a natural process in every industry so it is not one which turns customers away (I speak also as a customer of other software businesses myself), as it shows customers that the business is evolving with the times and that if hard decisions need to be made then they will be if it's in the customers best interests. Working on nothing but TDS would be a poor business decision and potentially damaging for the business in the medium and long term, especially in an increasingly declining market such as anti-trojan, mainly due to improvements in anti-virus scanners, so it could leave us being unable to develop any software and I predict that various scanners will end up in that position. We've chosen the option that makes the most sense for everyone, as we will be able to provide a lot more benefits and software to our customers with the decision we've made. If we had've chosen to keep developing TDS then that's all our customers would ever get, and our ProcessGuard/Port Explorer/WormGuard customers will not and should not accept that. It's one or the other, we've simply chosen the option that will be most beneficial to our customers. People wouldn't be making emotional posts in this thread if they didn't feel strongly about our software, and to those people I say hold you chin up high because now we're free to make even more software for you! If you like TDS, you'll love what we've got coming up next.

On another note, in regards to the free PE/PG licenses we've offered, to those who already have PE and PG we're extending the offer so that you can have a free license generated for a friend (you may even choose to have them pay you half of your license cost). We obviously can't offer anything in regards to future software as that is one of the main things we've been criticised for in this thread, and we do listen!

 

Hi Nick,
Thanks for sharing that, it's interesting to hear from somebody who has been in this situation before, and I'm happy to hear (but not surprised!) that it has all worked out well for both you and your customers. Big decisions often reap big rewards for all parties

 

Yes, the solution is so obvious.

Regards,
Rich

 

I am sorry you feel that way Wayne. You asked what I expected… Nothing more than what you promised… It was you, after all, who made the promise. Very clearly stated. No fine print or disclaimers. It was a promise you kept making up to the last. You never said you were withdrawing the free software offers effective for all purchases made after a given date.

I pay for annual upgrades all the time. It was made clear from the beginning. Other software companies I do business with have changed policies over the years. Most have grandfathered long time user in base on the undertsanding that when the software was bought there would be free lifetime upgrades. Again, a critical issue here is you keeping the offer alive until you pulled the plug on TDS-3.

How can you justify taking peoples money on an empty promise (rhetorical question)? We both know this wasn’t a decision reached overnight. Many of us, me included, knew long ago TDS-4 wasn’t going to see the light of day. Those that stated it on open forums where called naysayers and shouted down. Many of those who supported you back then have egg on their collective faces right now and you are the one that put it there.

DCS is a mom and pop operation… the last one’s you would expect to do something like this. It is a matter of ethics. I am not threatening you with legal action. I have time neither the time or the desire. I am doing nothing other than advising Mr. McGinty’s office of what I feel may be some irregularities in the way this was handled. They, not me will make a determination regarding what, if anything, was done that was unfair to the consumer. That is where it should be decided. As far as how others feel about my position on this… they are entitled to think whatever they desire. Any adverse outcome in this matter is of your own doing.

In the final analysis it is the market place that is going to make or break you on this move. Wilders in your home turf and most of your supporters are here and most feel you can do know wrong. That is to be expected. But if you have been surfing the net, there aren’t a lot of warm fuzzy feeling over this. And it is only Monday.

As far as I am concerned I am finish with DCS. I will not do business with you again or recommend DCS to anyone under any circumstances. If I am in the minority; my feelings in this matter, will have, little if any impact on DCS. If, on a global bases your customer base feels much the same as I do and abandons DCS, then DCS will suffer their business demise by their own hand. It all comes down to that one word, ethics. If people perceive there is a clear lack of ethics by a business. Then they go elsewhere. You have too much of a niche market and too much growing competition to be shooting dice in the ethics department. There are too many other games around that haven’t had a cloud cast over them. In the final analysis that is all you had to sustain you. And now that may be gone. Time will tell…

We have both had our say… you have heard me and I have heard you. As you can see I don’t post here very often at all. I have too many other things going on, including a lot of travel, and don’t have the time other then to check for new releases.

In closing I want to thank you for the opportunity to state my feelings and position on your support forum. I do realize it was a courtesy you didn’t have to extend to me.

I wish you well Wayne.

 

A lot of the people here have spent hours and hours of their time voluntarily helping others troubleshoot DCS programs, effectively taking a huge tech support burden off DCS and it's very regrettable that this is the thanks they get. Not only have they bought all DCS programs but helped out so much and now stand to lose TDS3, TDS 4 as well as the free upgrade which was promised.

The loyalty and patience shown by all in waiting so painstakingly for the new release only to be hit with the fact that not only will it not come out but the promised upgrade has basically been torn up and shredded is a huge blow and those who have not had any upgrades at all will be wondering if they will ever in their lifetime get a free upgrade from DCS.

I think that some people here might feel hurt that the focus is shifting more towards selling new programs without this issue having first been resolved.

The atmosphere between DCS and their customers is not good at all for the launch of new software after what has transpired so far.

Dave

 

Am i allowed to speak my mind or will this thread be locked dowen and deleted?

Tds means the world to me because with it i feel safe.

I dont have to be an expert it finds trojans and kills them.

your other software is completly useless to me yeah it can say here is this and that but i cant do anything but temporarly fix the problem

and i dont like nastys in my computer even if pg and port can shut them down it still dosent solve the problem

with tds you can kill the trojan

your other products worked great with tds because if something new was trying to acess the net or something i never saw befor i could shut it down ask advice and if it where anasty you could update tds and i could kill it.

your other products arnt as valuble to me as a good AT

if you had tds for at least a full year then you got your moneys worth

but for those who had it for less then 12 months should get there money back.

i dont think its right you guys gut tds 4 something that we been waiting for for 2 to 3 years for then take the good stuff out and re sell it to us as diffrent programs thats F'd

your other products have become useless to me since theres noway to kill the thing controling my pc i have to be a damn near expert to know if something is bad or not tds was better cause it find and kill took all the guess work out.

i personaly wouldnt recomend frinds to a company that would do this.

yearly subscription of 10 dollers for tds is fair to me because the damn thing almost cost 50 dollers or more for AT thats high.

I need a program that kills nastys not one that says you may have one heres a temporary fix blah

 

I totally agree with what Tuatara has written. In fact, I expect nothing less than what Tuatara has suggest for those of us who already have all your software (WG, PG, PE and TDS-3)!!!

Atomas31

 

CrownKing, I'm sorry to hear that you won't be using our software any more because of our discontinuation of TDS, but that's entirely your choice. I understand that you're disappointed about not being able to upgrade to TDS4 for free like we offered, but I hope you can understand that programs are regularly conceived and discontinued, this is nothing new at all, and the fact of the matter is that software and the security industry in particular is very dynamic and changing from day to day, and if we don't evolve with it then we're not doing our job. We only made that bonus offer because we've always offered free upgrades with all of our software as we like to offer as much value for money as possible (hence the extremely low prices on our software), and I know that nobody bought TDS simply because of an offer for a future program which didn't even exist in public, they bought the program for the program. TDS is such a massive time/resource/financial burden that it was even hampering its own development. There's just no way we can continue to evolve with the times like our customers demand by staying with TDS, because it was sucking us down a hole to a stage where it was nearly impossible for us to release further software to our customers, and that's why we have customers - because of our software, and even the people who are the most critical about our decision are being vocal because they like and use our software, so they will benefit the most, even though they might fail to understand that now. All will become clear in the coming months.

 

Personally I'll be withholding any judgement until we know what's going to happen with the next product. It doesn't do anyone any good to jump to any conclusions.

What I would like to know is how DCS feels about signature based apps in general. Do you think that it's all going towards generic protection? Or just how you see security software going in the future..

 

As already explained we have extended the offer for those who already have TDS/PE/PG for a further license for your friend, at our expense. This isn't an offer that you'd get from any other company, but not many companies even offer free upgrades in the first place so I'm sure you'll find this a more than satisfactory considering it's something for nothing.

We are still as yet undecided if we'll continue offering free upgrades for our future software, as despite our best intentions in increasing the value for the customer we have actually received more criticism about that than just about anything else in regards to this decision about TDS - if we wound the clock back and never offered free upgrades we wouldn't be receiving this criticism, so it's quite disappointing from my personal perspective.